Hi,
I was thinking about this. Does anybody know how loud will a tweeter with x-max of 0.4mm go at 700 Hz, compared to another one at 2.1kHz with a x-max of 0.2mm, relatively speaking.
What is the relationship of amplitude versus frequency given the same amount of power?😕
Oon
I was thinking about this. Does anybody know how loud will a tweeter with x-max of 0.4mm go at 700 Hz, compared to another one at 2.1kHz with a x-max of 0.2mm, relatively speaking.
What is the relationship of amplitude versus frequency given the same amount of power?😕
Oon
Oon, please try this. The calculations are for pure diaphragm movement, and do not include boost due to waveguide or horn.
Note that you will need to convert Sd (given in most data sheets) into diameter and then into inches.
Piston Excursion calculator
Note that you will need to convert Sd (given in most data sheets) into diameter and then into inches.
Piston Excursion calculator
For what it's worth, I don't view a waveguide so much as a horn but more of an inverted version of a flat baffle. More variables? Depends on your point of view I suppose. You could be right. The results speak for themselves.To tell you the truth, I am not a horny kind of guy
It adds another variable to the whole equation.
The Wavecor TW030WA12 looks very nice, but is not available in the USA (yet).
I may contact Vance, in the past he has sold me some samples when he was done with them.
Eratta:
I found them on eBay for $83.50, I think I'll pass.
"To tell you the truth, I am not a horny kind of guy "
I understand.
Have you heard any of the newer waveguide products? They don't really sound 'horny' . They are quite large, but you indicated you might stack four high with your project. For that kind of size and money you could buy a good waveguide and the driver that Avantgarde uses in their Trio model.
Just a thought.
I may contact Vance, in the past he has sold me some samples when he was done with them.
Eratta:
I found them on eBay for $83.50, I think I'll pass.
"To tell you the truth, I am not a horny kind of guy "
I understand.
Have you heard any of the newer waveguide products? They don't really sound 'horny' . They are quite large, but you indicated you might stack four high with your project. For that kind of size and money you could buy a good waveguide and the driver that Avantgarde uses in their Trio model.
Just a thought.
Last edited:
Hi Jcarr,
Thanks for the piston excursion calculator. Was very helpful. Looks like the most I could go at 750Hz and 0.4mm excursion is 90db at 1m. If I want to hit 100dB, would need 4...
Now if only Solen would put it up in a sale...
Oon
Thanks for the piston excursion calculator. Was very helpful. Looks like the most I could go at 750Hz and 0.4mm excursion is 90db at 1m. If I want to hit 100dB, would need 4...
Now if only Solen would put it up in a sale...
Oon
Hi AllenB,
When I meant horn I wasn't refering to the wavecor, I was refering to compression drivers, which by default, you will need to go into horns...
Hi DJK,
Solen has it for about USD$70 ... in case you are interested...
http://solen.ca/products/speakers/home-speakers/tweeters/tw030wa12/
Oon
When I meant horn I wasn't refering to the wavecor, I was refering to compression drivers, which by default, you will need to go into horns...
Hi DJK,
Solen has it for about USD$70 ... in case you are interested...
http://solen.ca/products/speakers/home-speakers/tweeters/tw030wa12/
Oon
Totally agree with this post and the quotes too.
I use the W2/800SL and it works just fine in a tiny (50cc) enclosure, with a -3dB roll off at ~500Hz, without filter. Should be very easy to add a second order filter to bring it to a fourth order curve.
I'm glad I am not alone in my love for this little TB 🙂
I actually have the Markaudio Alpair 5 and 6. So I am no stranger to this. However, I am pushing for something different.
A bit of extreme engineering. Want to challenge the norm, it may work out, may not work out. But it puts in a lot of fun to try something different..
I also have this, which is a really awesome speaker, nice open sound
http://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/264-888-tang-band-w3-1797s-specifications-46396.pdf
Oon
A bit of extreme engineering. Want to challenge the norm, it may work out, may not work out. But it puts in a lot of fun to try something different..
I also have this, which is a really awesome speaker, nice open sound
http://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/264-888-tang-band-w3-1797s-specifications-46396.pdf
Oon
I also have alpair 5....lol but it is a completely different animal. Certainly not a tweeter, or capable in a small eggcup /tealight sized backchamber.
Where the alpair5 grey has a awful sounding issue at ~400hz I certainly (and disappointingly) wouldn't use it for anything serious any longer. Not even a midtweeter.
If you like the dome crossed low idea, why not investigate a 2" dome midrange?
Such as visatons metal or soft dome 50mm ones. Perhaps an ATC mid dome?
I think they will work far better, albeit with a dropping high end.
Where the alpair5 grey has a awful sounding issue at ~400hz I certainly (and disappointingly) wouldn't use it for anything serious any longer. Not even a midtweeter.
If you like the dome crossed low idea, why not investigate a 2" dome midrange?
Such as visatons metal or soft dome 50mm ones. Perhaps an ATC mid dome?
I think they will work far better, albeit with a dropping high end.
The whole problem with that solution is, it is a midrange speaker doing midrange... Where is the fun in that... 😉
Where is the maverick part of building speakers... I would just wind up with an ordinary 3 way speaker....
To be perfectly honest, I like this one too... But I reckon, with such a large cone, it will start to loose the advantage of light mass, and powerful motor..
Tang Band 75-1558SE 3" Textile Dome Midrange
I reckon it is not anywhere near cheap..
Where is the maverick part of building speakers... I would just wind up with an ordinary 3 way speaker....
To be perfectly honest, I like this one too... But I reckon, with such a large cone, it will start to loose the advantage of light mass, and powerful motor..
Tang Band 75-1558SE 3" Textile Dome Midrange
I reckon it is not anywhere near cheap..
Last edited:
Hi mondogenerator, how would you compare the alpair to the tangband for use as a midtweeter? I actually quite like it. Especially since I am into openbaffles.
Might get one to play around with it as well..
Oon
Last edited:
As a full range driver the alpair CAN do surprising bass. Its the area between 5k and up that I don't like much. The high Q makes it better for OB. The little 2" TB I use has a lot less xmax, If I recall about 0.5mm, and a rise in the last octave which is less of a problem than the alpair5 peak. Id take a simple filter over a notch any day, but the TB isn't useable on OB.
I also have a 3" TB which I rate far higher than the A5 in general. The ill sound issue at around 400hz is something I found in my own testing, and it could be just MY alpairs that have it, but its enough for me to find them intolerable. To filter it out enough the crossover would end up being greater than 800hz, and the W2 can hack 800hz, without the same issue.
To be fair to the alpair, it is a driver that is trying to do it all, bass mids and treble. For me the issues below 500hz and above 5-6k make it more suitable for a midrange, albeit a very low efficiency one, with larger constraints on its bandwidth than others out there.
I also have a 3" TB which I rate far higher than the A5 in general. The ill sound issue at around 400hz is something I found in my own testing, and it could be just MY alpairs that have it, but its enough for me to find them intolerable. To filter it out enough the crossover would end up being greater than 800hz, and the W2 can hack 800hz, without the same issue.
To be fair to the alpair, it is a driver that is trying to do it all, bass mids and treble. For me the issues below 500hz and above 5-6k make it more suitable for a midrange, albeit a very low efficiency one, with larger constraints on its bandwidth than others out there.
Last edited:
Hi,
The LD25X from CSS if you can find them have the
highest linear excursion of any 1" tweeter, 1.85mm.
rgds, sreten.
The LD25X from CSS if you can find them have the
highest linear excursion of any 1" tweeter, 1.85mm.
rgds, sreten.
AFAIK, QC on the LD25X was not good, sample-to-sample variation could be substantial, and more than a few of these drivers had poor performance.
If Oon has a comprehensive measurement setup and is willing to take chances, maybe the LD25X could be a candidate.
If Oon has a comprehensive measurement setup and is willing to take chances, maybe the LD25X could be a candidate.
Interesting... However, I don't have the tools and the Fs is quite high... Anyway, even if it exceeds xmax it is not a hard clip... Might be quite tolerable.
Oon
Oon
Dear mondogenerator,
Agree on the comments on the highs, too much highs, and a bit metallic. If you look at the original datasheets of the markaudio, it has a rising response above 10kHz. I didn't notice the 400Hz though... The Alpair 6 is a little better in this. The response is flat to 20kHz and not rising...
In that sense, I am a bit more keen on non metals. They are more internally damped. Metallic cones can sometimes ring if they are not adequately damped.
Oon
Agree on the comments on the highs, too much highs, and a bit metallic. If you look at the original datasheets of the markaudio, it has a rising response above 10kHz. I didn't notice the 400Hz though... The Alpair 6 is a little better in this. The response is flat to 20kHz and not rising...
In that sense, I am a bit more keen on non metals. They are more internally damped. Metallic cones can sometimes ring if they are not adequately damped.
Oon
The alpair 5 actually has a peak in the mid HF. The top octave is to my ears, not bad at all. Its the peak which requires a notch which is the problem. If it was a simple rising response then it would be easy to fix.
As far as the 400hz problem, some have reported problems at up to an octave higher, and IIRC there's a bump in the published data which shows where the issue is.
Myself, id just go for a Jordan or Bandor everytime, for this kind of driver. Otherwise, I'm quite happy that TB generally do a better job.
As far as the 400hz problem, some have reported problems at up to an octave higher, and IIRC there's a bump in the published data which shows where the issue is.
Myself, id just go for a Jordan or Bandor everytime, for this kind of driver. Otherwise, I'm quite happy that TB generally do a better job.
You could double or triple (TTT) the tweeters and cross around 1kHz depending on the tweeter and how loud you want your speaker to play. You will need to roll off one or two if using 3, tweeter(s).
Or, use one of these:
Tang Band W3-1797S 3" Neodymium Midrange Driver
Cross around 1kHz or so. This tweeter has a wider dispersion pattern than most/all 3" you'll likely find. You can also double them up like in the Boenicke speaker and go low order cross.
Or, use one of these:
Tang Band W3-1797S 3" Neodymium Midrange Driver
Cross around 1kHz or so. This tweeter has a wider dispersion pattern than most/all 3" you'll likely find. You can also double them up like in the Boenicke speaker and go low order cross.
I actually have that Tangband tweeter too. Sounds really great. It has a fantastic ability to just fill the room..But the treble does not sound as "light" as a normal tweeter.
There are a few reasons I want to do the tweeter approach.
1) The mass of the dome is so light that the energy dissipates almost immediately. Look at the waterfall plot from my earlier posts. Therefore it has a very different sonic signature.
2) My tryout of the Tangband ceramic dome was awesome when crossed at 700Hz. There was so much texture in the sound. Probably because of the lightness of the cone, it moves to the electrical signal more closely.
3) The dome of a dome tweeter is connected to the voicecoil and voice coil connected to the surrounds suspension. Therefore the dome is sort of decoupled from the surrounds and should not experience the flextural stress that normal speakers do. The dome should move in a more pistonlike behaviour compared to the normal speaker cone.
Well any these are my thoughts.
If there are any good 2" dome mids worth talking about, I am listening too.
Oon
There are a few reasons I want to do the tweeter approach.
1) The mass of the dome is so light that the energy dissipates almost immediately. Look at the waterfall plot from my earlier posts. Therefore it has a very different sonic signature.
2) My tryout of the Tangband ceramic dome was awesome when crossed at 700Hz. There was so much texture in the sound. Probably because of the lightness of the cone, it moves to the electrical signal more closely.
3) The dome of a dome tweeter is connected to the voicecoil and voice coil connected to the surrounds suspension. Therefore the dome is sort of decoupled from the surrounds and should not experience the flextural stress that normal speakers do. The dome should move in a more pistonlike behaviour compared to the normal speaker cone.
Well any these are my thoughts.
If there are any good 2" dome mids worth talking about, I am listening too.
Oon
Last edited: