I was hoping to inform you, but I see I’m too late. Anyway, don’t clean them, although it seems to start from the back side first, as people have been having a terminal corrosion problem with the Excel driver cones. Much like aluminum, once it starts it becomes quite progressive. Depending on your construction materials, MDF or other glued particle boards, I might suggest treating the inside of your enclosures with a paint-on barrier.
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The woofer you have is a very complicated piece of engineering. Pairing it with the Excel T29 AF001 is, imo, the only option for a beginner.
Many experienced DIYS designer have failed integrating the W18 into a combination. Do your self a favor and use these drivers. You can build one speaker with the crossover Hobby HIFI developed and experiment with the other one, trying to design your own. That way you will have a reference what the combination can be like and what your design is. If you are interested in help with the crossover, you may PM me.
Many experienced DIYS designer have failed integrating the W18 into a combination. Do your self a favor and use these drivers. You can build one speaker with the crossover Hobby HIFI developed and experiment with the other one, trying to design your own. That way you will have a reference what the combination can be like and what your design is. If you are interested in help with the crossover, you may PM me.
If you experience this problem, please contact SEAS with clear pictures of the problem, don't try any repairs. They may help you.
Looks like even Dayton makes better speakers for less.
Sounds like a Troll comment but isn't meant to be.
Its just as simple as that, too much money to see that happen.
Piston diameter of 126 cm2 needing a 1.5 kHz crossover?
nope
To cross at 1.5 kHz you need a small neo magnet.
Tweeter with larger magnet or chamber would have large mounting plate.
So center to center spacing with mounting is non ideal.
Also assuming the usual 30 ohm peak at the crossover to pull out all the baffle step.
no fun
Sounds like a Troll comment but isn't meant to be.
Its just as simple as that, too much money to see that happen.
Piston diameter of 126 cm2 needing a 1.5 kHz crossover?
nope
To cross at 1.5 kHz you need a small neo magnet.
Tweeter with larger magnet or chamber would have large mounting plate.
So center to center spacing with mounting is non ideal.
Also assuming the usual 30 ohm peak at the crossover to pull out all the baffle step.
no fun
Thank you for your suggestions and for willing to help. It is much appreciated.
It seems that building the crossover will be more complicated than building the right filters to get a flat frequency response.
I'll try to keep it as close as possible to one of the designs. Either the Troels TJL2 at 2kHz or or I'll try to back engineer the one of Hobby HiFi at 1.8kHz. Both of them do solve the problems of the w18 woofer.
What I do not understand is where lies the problem with tweeter integration once that the right filters are applied to the woofer?
So far, beyond getting a flat response, I've read about problems with directivity mitigated by a waveguide (if installed right), tweeter ability to be crossed at low frequency (depends on distortion, max linear displacement) and resonance frequency (which gives high spikes in impedance).
Are there other red flags I shall pay attention?
Thank you for sharing your experience. I'm sorry for your driver's. This is a very aggressive corrosion. Did you find any of it on other metal parts of the speaker?
I'll keep in mind to apply some paint on the inside once everything will be glued together
Thank you for the suggestion. I think I will apply a 2kHz or a 1.8kHz as in other designs.
Could you elaborate on the importance of the center (of tweeter) to center (of woofer) spacing? I did notice that some speakers have a small tweeter right above the woofer, while other have a big tweeter quite far away from the woofer.
I was thinking to get Jantzen superior for the caps in series with the tweeter (these seem to have the most impact on the sound, from what I've read)
If you want to be a speaker designer you need a few things. Building a cabinet is the last, most simple step. You can outsource it to China.
First you need a lot of knowledge about acoustics AND electronics. How soundwaves behave and what happens when you install a sound source on some panel (baffle). There is space and time involved. People that plan to do this job for a living usually visit a technical university. During your courses you also learn how to measure and what to measure. Which is the next point. Measuring is simple, take a mike, some other gear and a free software and you can produce some kind of curve. Anyway, what for and if this measurement is usefull for anything and what relation to audible reality it has, needs theory, practice and a lot of time.
Also very helpfull is a pair of educated ears and the ability to judge how much of a "real" sound can be reproduced by your hardware. "real", because most recorded music is processed, not a pure, natural recording. A lot of music isn't even physical instruments any more. So there is no "right" reproduction possible, it is more about a pleasent way to present a recording. In the old times this was even more important than measuring, but you want to use top class material from the third milenium. Which makes another point interesting: You need source and amp of reverence quality. Otherwise you will integrate any imperfection of your gear into the build. Same aplies for the room you measure and listen in during development.
A huge amount of try and error get's obsolete with good simulations. Anyway, there is no KI yet, where you enter your drivers names and get a perfect plan for a high end speaker, without knowing anything about the stuff mentioned above.
If I was rude and honest, I would tell you for someone who never build a speaker or crossover, it is a ridiculous idea to buy some high end speaker and expect a positive outcome.
Get a decend plan and follow it the best you can, don't get creative and "improve" anything. Best advice one can give you, sorry.
PS what model of over priced boutique capacitor you choose is not even 0.00001% of your problems! This get's ridiculous.
First you need a lot of knowledge about acoustics AND electronics. How soundwaves behave and what happens when you install a sound source on some panel (baffle). There is space and time involved. People that plan to do this job for a living usually visit a technical university. During your courses you also learn how to measure and what to measure. Which is the next point. Measuring is simple, take a mike, some other gear and a free software and you can produce some kind of curve. Anyway, what for and if this measurement is usefull for anything and what relation to audible reality it has, needs theory, practice and a lot of time.
Also very helpfull is a pair of educated ears and the ability to judge how much of a "real" sound can be reproduced by your hardware. "real", because most recorded music is processed, not a pure, natural recording. A lot of music isn't even physical instruments any more. So there is no "right" reproduction possible, it is more about a pleasent way to present a recording. In the old times this was even more important than measuring, but you want to use top class material from the third milenium. Which makes another point interesting: You need source and amp of reverence quality. Otherwise you will integrate any imperfection of your gear into the build. Same aplies for the room you measure and listen in during development.
A huge amount of try and error get's obsolete with good simulations. Anyway, there is no KI yet, where you enter your drivers names and get a perfect plan for a high end speaker, without knowing anything about the stuff mentioned above.
If I was rude and honest, I would tell you for someone who never build a speaker or crossover, it is a ridiculous idea to buy some high end speaker and expect a positive outcome.
Get a decend plan and follow it the best you can, don't get creative and "improve" anything. Best advice one can give you, sorry.
PS what model of over priced boutique capacitor you choose is not even 0.00001% of your problems! This get's ridiculous.
@Turbowatch2 There are ways to be honest, without being rude or toxic.
If you still want to keep a normal dialogue, then here's what I want to say. II do not try to be a speaker designer, I just want to avoid major mistakes in choosing the drivers, as these ones will be hard/costly to repair. That's the reason why I ask here people with more experience.
I do have knowledge how to build or change a crossover, as I've built these kinds of filters during my classes in electrocinetics and signal treatment at the university. There's really nothing difficult for me to change the frequency of a filter, especially with software that can do the calculations. I just never built a crossover for audio. That's why if the majority of people here say it's important to use higher quality capacitors and bypass some them, I'll do that. Not because I don't know how a capacitor works, but because I found many threads of people saying everything of decent quality is similar and others saying they hear a big difference.
I do understand how soundwaves behave in general. I've had lectures on wave physics and acoustics at university. I do work with phenomena of interference and diffraction, but in optics. I just don't know which one of them are important when building a speaker. That's why I'm asking what empiric rules/suggestions people use, in order to understand what phenomena they try to adress.
Of course that is not enough to build a great speaker. And I'm not an engineer, I'm a scientist. However, I do find fun and interesting to do it, if not then I would simply go and buy a commercial speaker. I think the majority of people here, are doing this for fun, not for living. I'm sorry for those who don't have fun.
I plan to spend this year vacation building my speakers and it'll be a good one.
If you still want to keep a normal dialogue, then here's what I want to say. II do not try to be a speaker designer, I just want to avoid major mistakes in choosing the drivers, as these ones will be hard/costly to repair. That's the reason why I ask here people with more experience.
I do have knowledge how to build or change a crossover, as I've built these kinds of filters during my classes in electrocinetics and signal treatment at the university. There's really nothing difficult for me to change the frequency of a filter, especially with software that can do the calculations. I just never built a crossover for audio. That's why if the majority of people here say it's important to use higher quality capacitors and bypass some them, I'll do that. Not because I don't know how a capacitor works, but because I found many threads of people saying everything of decent quality is similar and others saying they hear a big difference.
I do understand how soundwaves behave in general. I've had lectures on wave physics and acoustics at university. I do work with phenomena of interference and diffraction, but in optics. I just don't know which one of them are important when building a speaker. That's why I'm asking what empiric rules/suggestions people use, in order to understand what phenomena they try to adress.
Of course that is not enough to build a great speaker. And I'm not an engineer, I'm a scientist. However, I do find fun and interesting to do it, if not then I would simply go and buy a commercial speaker. I think the majority of people here, are doing this for fun, not for living. I'm sorry for those who don't have fun.
I plan to spend this year vacation building my speakers and it'll be a good one.
Thank you for the reply. These were not mine, but show a known problem.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/corrosion-seas-magnesium-drivers.300775/
Hi, I feel really sorry for people that it happened to, and across the web people were seeing the corrosion forming. I was going to use some Seas Excel drivers years ago, but humidity can be unpredictable here. I imagine the outgassing of vocs from processed wood products as humidity climbs may relate to why it starts at the rear side first.
Some weeks before christmas last year I have heard this loudspeaker with DSP crossover and the same or similar midrange woofer:
https://www.grimmaudio.com/hifi-products/loudspeakers/ls1be/
Excellent sonic performance.
Maybe one of the members know, which tweeter is on this model in use.
I guess, this tweeter is also very good with a passive crossover network (BU-III or LR-IV).
Not read the P.S.
30L is too much for a W18EX001, 16L max. Make a chamber with sand with the rest of the volume in the box can improve the box neutrality.
Your crossover should be third order for both, woofer and tweeter. Troëls TJL2 crossover is a good starting point.
I'm a physicist to
but forgot all about optics and lasers...
Off axis Horizontal response is usually easy to get.
Because the tweeter is mounted in a vertical position above the woofer.
Unless center to center spacing is close as possible there will be dip in vertical off axis response.
It is often not possible to meet ideal distance because of the physical size of the drivers.
In all simplicity the drivers should be mounted as close as possible regardless.
Any design with a tweeter mounted far from the mid = they dont know what they are doing
or unaware of vertical response issues because they only sum On axis measurements.
During crossover design and have no clue what is happening off axis.
Noticed the magnesium woofer has peaks in the top end, and see why a low crossover
is suggested. And yes a 4th order crossover be most effective to clean that up.
Far as the tweeter being crossed low. Then a matching 4th order high pass would
make matching the response easier. And likewise high order crossovers for
tweeters are very effective in reducing distortion.
Tower sounds fun, just use standard QB3 alignment and use
needed volume. Width of tower can be 1:6 to 1:7 ratio
to the width of the actual driver. And Height can be 1:6 to 1:7
ratio according to width. Easy as that to have a aesthetic pleasing
ratio. And wide enough baffle to not fight to much with baffle step.
SB acoustic tweeter suggested has nice response up top and low resonant
frequency, seems like a nice tweeter. Would like to hear one.
Power handling seems high as well. Should keep up rather well
with the woofer at 88 dB. After baffle step is compensated for
Id expect a system sensitivity around 82 to 84 dB
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Have you considered using a DSP for the crossover? @tiefbassuebertr mentioned it but I thought it's worth emphasising its benefits -particularly if you don't already have an amplifier purchased. The single biggest advantage of an active crossover/DSP is that if something is off/wrong, it just takes a bit of code to fix it. Particularly with that bizarre peak at 5khz on your woofer - instead of having complicated designs with time and phase delays and whatnot, a DSP will let you fix all that almost "magically". (These time/phase benefits would apply even if you didn't need to fix a peak.)
Btw if you haven't already, there are a bunch of "guide to making a speaker" threads etc (some/many off this site), I'd recommend going through at least one if not multiple. I'm not sure if there's a policy regarding talking about other forums but if you google it you should find a few decent ones.
Quick edit because I just remembered: others mentioned (correctly) that using this driver as a lower (midbass) rather than mid might be better (allowing you to use another woofer for the mids), if you really don't want to do that you could also look at compression drivers as some of them can be crossed fairly low. But you absolutely should use a waveguide with them.
Btw if you haven't already, there are a bunch of "guide to making a speaker" threads etc (some/many off this site), I'd recommend going through at least one if not multiple. I'm not sure if there's a policy regarding talking about other forums but if you google it you should find a few decent ones.
Quick edit because I just remembered: others mentioned (correctly) that using this driver as a lower (midbass) rather than mid might be better (allowing you to use another woofer for the mids), if you really don't want to do that you could also look at compression drivers as some of them can be crossed fairly low. But you absolutely should use a waveguide with them.