Hi gabdx,
Thorens belt drive = silence. A TD-160 is really good, but the TD-125 MKII has it's own oscillator and quadrature drive to the motor. That means noise on the AC won't interfere with the motor and make it noisy. Not that I've heard that happen on a Thorens, but I don't know how clean your power is in Uruguay.
A really good turntable mat will also help with any noise, plus vibration through the air. This works for direct drive or belt drive tables.
-Chris
Thorens belt drive = silence. A TD-160 is really good, but the TD-125 MKII has it's own oscillator and quadrature drive to the motor. That means noise on the AC won't interfere with the motor and make it noisy. Not that I've heard that happen on a Thorens, but I don't know how clean your power is in Uruguay.
A really good turntable mat will also help with any noise, plus vibration through the air. This works for direct drive or belt drive tables.
-Chris
I have a good TT anatech, not looking, 10 years ago I purchased it with 2 good carts.
I am now more interested into the 'semi' line contact. I am a big fan of line contact.
I posted years ago that my cartridge didn't tracked well the last parts of the grooves and had lot of high pitch noise playing loud parts at the end of records...
I fixed it, but it took a lot of faith on my part. I fixed the azimuth, the VTA, the anti-skate, the angle, and finally the weight.
I found the most critical is to calibrate the tracking force at the exact place that the needle touches the record, and to calculate 100% the anti-skate to exactly counteract the centrifugal force.
This cleared up the distortion at the end grooves, plus the VTA could then be finely adjusted.
I cannot tell how precise it is but it can be done by ear alone listening to how the sound changes, it is in the 1/20 of a millimeter....
Then even more precise was the azimuth, this is very easy to see by eye, you can see the cantilever being squeezed one side, it is very small adjustments, like 1/100mm makes a difference, and that doesn't help tracking but distortion is better.
Then, the cart angle on the head, is easy to set up with tools, but, if the VTA, is screwed up or even worse the anti-skate with tracking force, you wont find the proper VTA.
My mistake was to think the alignment was wrong, which let me to play with it to compensate the deviation at the end of the record, ...alignment, cannot compensate,
Then I drastically adjusted VTA,
I was sure just a basic force gage + average anti-skate would work, i was so wrong,
After so many adjustments, I set the tracking force proportional to the exact calculation of the anti-skate.
1. Measure the downforce at the exact contact with needle and vinyl.
the centrifugal force (N) will be at 0.08m 33rpm equal to : the downforce in KG * 0.9553
if your arm knob is in mN, to have th KG , divide that number by 9806.65
Ex, 1.5 / 9806.65 =0.0001529 kg of down force
If you have a dial for the anti-skate, turn the dial there.
2. if you have a fixed weight with markings, measure exact distance (0.5mm precision at least) from the markings to arm pivot center, (X), then from pivot to top of the needle point (L)
3. measure counter weight (W) in grams or convert oz to grams
4. apply formula : X distance from weight to pivot = [(Centrifugal force *102 to convert to grams)*L]/W
I am now more interested into the 'semi' line contact. I am a big fan of line contact.
I posted years ago that my cartridge didn't tracked well the last parts of the grooves and had lot of high pitch noise playing loud parts at the end of records...
I fixed it, but it took a lot of faith on my part. I fixed the azimuth, the VTA, the anti-skate, the angle, and finally the weight.
I found the most critical is to calibrate the tracking force at the exact place that the needle touches the record, and to calculate 100% the anti-skate to exactly counteract the centrifugal force.
This cleared up the distortion at the end grooves, plus the VTA could then be finely adjusted.
I cannot tell how precise it is but it can be done by ear alone listening to how the sound changes, it is in the 1/20 of a millimeter....
Then even more precise was the azimuth, this is very easy to see by eye, you can see the cantilever being squeezed one side, it is very small adjustments, like 1/100mm makes a difference, and that doesn't help tracking but distortion is better.
Then, the cart angle on the head, is easy to set up with tools, but, if the VTA, is screwed up or even worse the anti-skate with tracking force, you wont find the proper VTA.
My mistake was to think the alignment was wrong, which let me to play with it to compensate the deviation at the end of the record, ...alignment, cannot compensate,
Then I drastically adjusted VTA,
I was sure just a basic force gage + average anti-skate would work, i was so wrong,
After so many adjustments, I set the tracking force proportional to the exact calculation of the anti-skate.
1. Measure the downforce at the exact contact with needle and vinyl.
the centrifugal force (N) will be at 0.08m 33rpm equal to : the downforce in KG * 0.9553
if your arm knob is in mN, to have th KG , divide that number by 9806.65
Ex, 1.5 / 9806.65 =0.0001529 kg of down force
If you have a dial for the anti-skate, turn the dial there.
2. if you have a fixed weight with markings, measure exact distance (0.5mm precision at least) from the markings to arm pivot center, (X), then from pivot to top of the needle point (L)
3. measure counter weight (W) in grams or convert oz to grams
4. apply formula : X distance from weight to pivot = [(Centrifugal force *102 to convert to grams)*L]/W
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Gabdx, your explanation about adjustment-alignment of a cartridge is very good.
But from my ignorance, I have some questions. (I've only dabbled in vinyl a few years ago and I've never had a mid-high turntable).
How important is the adjustment of the VTA, being that many records are not perfectly flat, presenting to the naked eye undulations when turning?
That is, the VTA is changing as the vinyl rotates.
The other question is about the adjustment of the antiskate.
How accurate are the adjustments to springs or by weight and rope or even magnetic ones.
The scale tells us precisely the desired value ?.
One of the reasons that led me to acquire the Technics Sl-10 (zero Humm) were those subjects. VTF and Antiskate.
I can not configure Azimut or VTA (20º), but I suppose that these turntables are already established in the factory.
Greetings.
But from my ignorance, I have some questions. (I've only dabbled in vinyl a few years ago and I've never had a mid-high turntable).
How important is the adjustment of the VTA, being that many records are not perfectly flat, presenting to the naked eye undulations when turning?
That is, the VTA is changing as the vinyl rotates.
The other question is about the adjustment of the antiskate.
How accurate are the adjustments to springs or by weight and rope or even magnetic ones.
The scale tells us precisely the desired value ?.
One of the reasons that led me to acquire the Technics Sl-10 (zero Humm) were those subjects. VTF and Antiskate.
I can not configure Azimut or VTA (20º), but I suppose that these turntables are already established in the factory.
Greetings.
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A major convenience of the Technics SL-10 is that all the parameters you mention are set up in the factory and there is no need (and, indeed, no possibility) of user adjustment.
The original moving coil cartridge (which does not have a user replaceable stylus) can be replaced by any current moving magnet T4P (P-Mount) cartridge without the need for any adjustment, other than to switch out the internal moving coil preamplifier.
Hi gabdx,
One thing you need to know is that anti-skating force is variable depending on groove modulation. The best you can hope for is a nice, happy average. The manufacturer of the arm may have already compensated, so when you dial up 1.5 grams of anti-skating, the actual applied force might be very different (because they compensated already). So the best advice I can give it to follow the arm manufacturer's recommendations. Not unless the arm isn't a very good one.
I like the advanced stylus shapes as well. However, they create a little more drag. The other advice I could give is to track at the higher ranges of recommended force. You really do not want to go to the light side. Doing that often causes the stylus to ride up in the groove causing both distortion and damage to the record.
-Chris
I don't doubt it, never said you didn't. What do you have again? If you mentioned it already I have forgotten - sorry.
One thing you need to know is that anti-skating force is variable depending on groove modulation. The best you can hope for is a nice, happy average. The manufacturer of the arm may have already compensated, so when you dial up 1.5 grams of anti-skating, the actual applied force might be very different (because they compensated already). So the best advice I can give it to follow the arm manufacturer's recommendations. Not unless the arm isn't a very good one.
I like the advanced stylus shapes as well. However, they create a little more drag. The other advice I could give is to track at the higher ranges of recommended force. You really do not want to go to the light side. Doing that often causes the stylus to ride up in the groove causing both distortion and damage to the record.
-Chris
I'd hope so, as they are $20,000.
(Not to say that price dictates performance, but the SP-10, of any mark, is an incredible table.)
Yes, 6l6, isn't a beauty? ready to impress friends
Anatech, I am very proud of my turntable, it is a pro-ject perspective older model, with speed regulator/leather mat, bearing upgrades, no one can guess which is which, deck or digital. My brother has a cheap sony and his needle doesn't have the resolution so the high pitch noises in Fortissimo at the end of grooves are subdued. my needles are the 2mbronze (I cant stand the blue, red,!) and the AT150MLX boron, line contact version ( needs 30k load impedance instead of 47k)
cant resist:
Anatech, I am very proud of my turntable, it is a pro-ject perspective older model, with speed regulator/leather mat, bearing upgrades, no one can guess which is which, deck or digital. My brother has a cheap sony and his needle doesn't have the resolution so the high pitch noises in Fortissimo at the end of grooves are subdued. my needles are the 2mbronze (I cant stand the blue, red,!) and the AT150MLX boron, line contact version ( needs 30k load impedance instead of 47k)
cant resist:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Hi gabdx,
That one looks like a beauty.
I'm trying out some new mats. The expensive one is still on the way, but if you ask me next week, I'll let you know what turned out the best. The other mats are the original factory one, a Platter Matter, a cheap one from Amazon worth less than $20 (silicone rubber), and a laminated mat with a tacky side (platter) and less tacky side. I would guess this one should mimic a new Platter Matter. I expect the factory mat to come in dead last. These will be run on my Thorens TD-126 MKII. Earlier tests many years ago showed that if you can bond the record to the platter and absorb all vibration you reduce any vibrations still more (already way down there), and it makes the record come alive while killing garbage in the background (not mico-detail).
-Chris
That one looks like a beauty.
I'm trying out some new mats. The expensive one is still on the way, but if you ask me next week, I'll let you know what turned out the best. The other mats are the original factory one, a Platter Matter, a cheap one from Amazon worth less than $20 (silicone rubber), and a laminated mat with a tacky side (platter) and less tacky side. I would guess this one should mimic a new Platter Matter. I expect the factory mat to come in dead last. These will be run on my Thorens TD-126 MKII. Earlier tests many years ago showed that if you can bond the record to the platter and absorb all vibration you reduce any vibrations still more (already way down there), and it makes the record come alive while killing garbage in the background (not mico-detail).
-Chris
The needle drag is sure slowing down your platter wiseoldech!It spins a record at 3 1/3 with a needle in the groove.
The needle drag is sure slowing down your platter wiseoldech!
No, sorry it isn't.
My Kenwood stays "on speed" just fine, judging from the stroboscope and piano records with heavy modulation.
wiseoldtech,
they aren't listening, as I said pages ago - all a t/t has to do is rotate at at precise speeds without introducing noise aka vibration/resonances - that's all it has to do. If you think it looks cool - KD990 = Zen like appearance for me personally, that's nice but not important - remember people, audio is about sound, not vision, that's the cherry, not the cake.
I asked this question on a thread I started about what to change component wise on the KD990. I'm about to change all the electrolytic caps, really easy the way the Kenwood engineers designed their decks. the question is - does anyone know how the plug at the end of the Kenwood arm which accepts the headshell is 'fixed' in the arm, I havn't received any answers and as Kenwood is no more I'm stymied.
The reason I want to know is so I don't do something that will naff the arm. I summise that it is either a screw fitting or is 'fixed' with some kind of epoxy.
It seems logical to me to ensure that the signal generated via the cartridge is corrupted as little as possible. Some years ago now after 4 years of putting ideas into practice I arrived at the 'theory from practice' that air cored i/connects using FEP tubing was an end game. I've still got a couple of conductor types to try.
Ther Kenwood KD arms all came (AFAIK) with high purity solid core silver tone arm wire, it looks to be 32-34 AWG. The same material is used for the 2 earth wires again I assume one is for grounding the arm and the other for grounding the cartridge.
The wire used is fine but it is tightly wrapped - what if I can use continuous runs of bare wire from cartridge tags to phono stage using thin wall FEP tubing. If air cored signal wire works so much better than conventional i/cs why shouldn't there be the same dramatic increase in signal transfer from the cartridge.
The experiment will not be that expensive. A lot of money is spent downstream in a system when work/experiments should be done logically from the source.
Like I said I don't want to naff a really good gimbal arm. If the plug has been fixed with some kind of solvent then it would have to be drilled out (tricky) but if it is screwed in, it would be a doddle. Here is the only advantage of a one piece/fixed h/shell over a detachable one.
There must be some old Kenwood engineers who know the answer - if only.
they aren't listening, as I said pages ago - all a t/t has to do is rotate at at precise speeds without introducing noise aka vibration/resonances - that's all it has to do. If you think it looks cool - KD990 = Zen like appearance for me personally, that's nice but not important - remember people, audio is about sound, not vision, that's the cherry, not the cake.
I asked this question on a thread I started about what to change component wise on the KD990. I'm about to change all the electrolytic caps, really easy the way the Kenwood engineers designed their decks. the question is - does anyone know how the plug at the end of the Kenwood arm which accepts the headshell is 'fixed' in the arm, I havn't received any answers and as Kenwood is no more I'm stymied.
The reason I want to know is so I don't do something that will naff the arm. I summise that it is either a screw fitting or is 'fixed' with some kind of epoxy.
It seems logical to me to ensure that the signal generated via the cartridge is corrupted as little as possible. Some years ago now after 4 years of putting ideas into practice I arrived at the 'theory from practice' that air cored i/connects using FEP tubing was an end game. I've still got a couple of conductor types to try.
Ther Kenwood KD arms all came (AFAIK) with high purity solid core silver tone arm wire, it looks to be 32-34 AWG. The same material is used for the 2 earth wires again I assume one is for grounding the arm and the other for grounding the cartridge.
The wire used is fine but it is tightly wrapped - what if I can use continuous runs of bare wire from cartridge tags to phono stage using thin wall FEP tubing. If air cored signal wire works so much better than conventional i/cs why shouldn't there be the same dramatic increase in signal transfer from the cartridge.
The experiment will not be that expensive. A lot of money is spent downstream in a system when work/experiments should be done logically from the source.
Like I said I don't want to naff a really good gimbal arm. If the plug has been fixed with some kind of solvent then it would have to be drilled out (tricky) but if it is screwed in, it would be a doddle. Here is the only advantage of a one piece/fixed h/shell over a detachable one.
There must be some old Kenwood engineers who know the answer - if only.
I have learned from experience that as long as the tonearm wiring is not damaged, and reads "0" ohms for each lead from cartridge to output connector - then DO NOT disturb it - unless you like and enjoy cursing, spitting, and un-needed extra work.
All those "audiophools" that tout fancy types of wire are nutbags with too much time on their hands, and claim they can hear things only an alien from another planet hears.
The snake oil salesmen that advertise those "euphoric" special wiring are making a killing on fools that have no clue about wiring.
You might want to consider that the main advantage of a TD 125 MK2 is that it has speed control adjustment. However, if you are buying one, you may need to replace capacitors from time to time as I have with mine. It has lots of electronics which can go wrong over time, so you might want to consider a TD160 MK1 or MK2, The MK1 actually has the better bearing, and costs less.
My TD160 MK2 sounds great to my ears. The only reason that I would not recommend the even better value TD150MK2 is that It's lift off lid is a nuisance to live with for me.
All 3 sound great with a decent arm and cartridge.
My TD160 MK2 sounds great to my ears. The only reason that I would not recommend the even better value TD150MK2 is that It's lift off lid is a nuisance to live with for me.
All 3 sound great with a decent arm and cartridge.
I made a joke - I guess you missed your '3 1/3' typo!
Thanks.
But I would assume others saw it and naturally knew the proper value.
I'm human, with imperfections as everyone is.