Was a scene or weekly event in SF playing old 45 records.
Remember the first time hearing the original Blue Monday
Fell in love with that DJ. Was Female , gorgeous and incredible
knowledge about music and record collection.
Ok well what was the question again LOL
Remember the first time hearing the original Blue Monday
Fell in love with that DJ. Was Female , gorgeous and incredible
knowledge about music and record collection.
Ok well what was the question again LOL
Speaking of genre tuned speakers.
Maybe not completely intentional.
But the old Drum n Bass nights spinning vinyl.
The records didnt really go very deep.
And the old Vega B36 bins didnt really go too deep.
Pretty big pronounced weird peak.
But typical line would be 4 or 6 Vegas
Horrible as they were. The Bass Tracks
on vinyl became magic.
Either real ones or plenty of copies of those
bins. Way before the internet seemed like the
known design floating around
Maybe not completely intentional.
But the old Drum n Bass nights spinning vinyl.
The records didnt really go very deep.
And the old Vega B36 bins didnt really go too deep.
Pretty big pronounced weird peak.
But typical line would be 4 or 6 Vegas
Horrible as they were. The Bass Tracks
on vinyl became magic.
Either real ones or plenty of copies of those
bins. Way before the internet seemed like the
known design floating around
Hmm...maybe i misunderstand you....what adjustments do you think are subtle?
And how do they contrast with what you think are 'not at all the same thing'?
The real-time EQ/tone controls that I use, can be either very large or very subtle, just based on gain/attenuation.
Although all of them span at least an octave. As they each span a multi-way driver section, and no more.
(I don't view notches or a BBC dip as tone controls...they're just fixing speaker flaws imo)
I disagree D&B records didn't go very deep. Maybe it was true on your side of the Atlantic and period you was into but i have tracks that have their load of 20hz ( Dylan - Outbreak records, Tech Itch - Penetration rec, a bunch on Renegade Hardware, etc,etc,...). Circa 2000.
The majority didn't go lower than low 30hz though. It sometimes was an issue as we often played with Hardcore/Tribe techno dj's and system tuning was different for both styles.
The best sound system i played on was a recent (at the time) DB audio around 2005. A commercial one, not customised but it was huge and dig deep in lows.
There was different approach to all this, i was surprised the first time i gone to London and how much a 'club' style it was ( and how much Jamaican culture was present too, you would never seen a 'pull up'' when we played, crowd would had struggle about it!): we were more into illegal free party approach about it ( there was not many Club playing this kind of genre except in big cities). I suppose it was the same between continent.
With low tuned metal my experience is different: i find sub usually muddy things. I did some in the past years and found to be ok with my mains which are limited to 38hz.
Rather than the amount of low end, it's in the tuning and tightness of playing the sound is. Even with A tuning you usually don't hear the fundemental anyway, it's the harmmonics which make note recognisable.
Of course this is a way to approach it, other are perfectly ok too.
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The original version wasn't done by him from back in 1983, but it was less bottom end pronounced and tighter sounding. I still prefer it over the remix, but that one really had some good thump and slam with a few extra samples in it. The remix would really do some damage on systems without subsonic filtering. The old RLH fostex /acr scoops with the FW405s could reach lower than 30hz in groups of 8 surrounding a dance floor. The overhang in decay would actually benefit the music.
On this thread I'm talking about EQ that applies to different source material.
There is EQ which compensates for what you might label as incorrect EQ on the recording, this is what I thought you were talking about. Then there's EQ you apply like the genre presets you often find built in to some systems, and which is the thread topic. Also there are times that speaker flaws cause different material to sound more different than it is since it either leans on or avoids the problem regions.
30Hz is the limit of vinyl, and me and whitedragon come from vinyl times i guess. When i was playing raggajunlge (the precestor of vinyl that still survives) in 1995-1997 it was all vinyl only, and was played on systems that were very similar to dub, as raggajungle is a dub spinoff. Congo Natty and other pioneers in that genre came straight from the jamaican soundsystems. DnB is a evolution out of raggajungle (mixed with rave), and when cdj's came could have deeper bass as they were not running into the vinyl bass limits. But vinyl records can't go that low in a standard format so there was no need to go to 20Hz. Arround 1997 DnB took over down here from Jungle, and i found it boring and moved to ragga and reggae as dj, after dipping also a bit into hardtek (but also not very interesting as dj).
At that time, Turbosound (their big horn systems) and Cerwin Vega ruled the dj soundsystem world. Turbosound was top of the line, Cerwin Vega the budget solution. I played on both systems, but most often on custom systems even at that time. Those custom systems had scoop horns as sub, and wbins as kickbass (lower midbass).
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Hi Waxx,
Well i'm surprised by this 30hz limit you talk about for vinyl. I never had seen it mentioned by ME i worked with for this kind of cuts.
That might depend of format used though: 99% of my collection are 12" cut at 45rpm so there is more space to cut deep frequency ( and louder) and we usually used same format for cuts of electronic music.
That said for non electronic music and 33rpm cut i usually high passed a bit higher in same range you talk about.
It must depend on the cuting lathe too, maybe some heads doesn't allow for very low but i'm doubtful about this though.
Here is some example:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FBAWegQIAhAB&usg=AOvVaw3RerlI-78sKdm4S4z5a0hZ
https://www.phoenixvinyl.co.uk/index.php/11-information/36-the-limitation-s-of-vinyl-records
Soundsystems. You know, i wasn't far away from Belgium when most active as dj ( closer to Germany and Switzerland 😉 ) so we had more or less same gear. Turbosound was the thing in there as the prefered choice for Techno dj's and they ruled the choice 90% of time ( we were 'les parents pauvre' as the style was seen as a way to chill out...). RCF was often seen when we ranted gear.
Cerwin Vega i don't remember had seen it. And of course custom ( our crew had his sound system until it was confiscated).
Well i'm surprised by this 30hz limit you talk about for vinyl. I never had seen it mentioned by ME i worked with for this kind of cuts.
That might depend of format used though: 99% of my collection are 12" cut at 45rpm so there is more space to cut deep frequency ( and louder) and we usually used same format for cuts of electronic music.
That said for non electronic music and 33rpm cut i usually high passed a bit higher in same range you talk about.
It must depend on the cuting lathe too, maybe some heads doesn't allow for very low but i'm doubtful about this though.
Here is some example:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FBAWegQIAhAB&usg=AOvVaw3RerlI-78sKdm4S4z5a0hZ
https://www.phoenixvinyl.co.uk/index.php/11-information/36-the-limitation-s-of-vinyl-records
Soundsystems. You know, i wasn't far away from Belgium when most active as dj ( closer to Germany and Switzerland 😉 ) so we had more or less same gear. Turbosound was the thing in there as the prefered choice for Techno dj's and they ruled the choice 90% of time ( we were 'les parents pauvre' as the style was seen as a way to chill out...). RCF was often seen when we ranted gear.
Cerwin Vega i don't remember had seen it. And of course custom ( our crew had his sound system until it was confiscated).
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They don't mention it, but the RIAA specs demand a 2nd order butterworth lowcut at 49.9Hz, so there is little info below 30Hz. The most used cutting machine, the Neumann VMS80 lathe has this standard implemented in their Neumann SAB 74B eq, where a Butterworth filter does that high pass filter. My mastering engineer did tell me that when i was releasing stuff (back in the 00's), or mixed other people's releases for vinyl release. Keep the bass and kick centered in the mix, and cut all below 30hz to have the best bass on vinyl releases.
Dj mixers and most commercial phono stages have also a HPF that cut out the rumble of the turntables, tryingto be flat to 30hz and cut all below. Sometimes you can switch it off on higher end phono stages, but mostly you can't.
Dj mixers and most commercial phono stages have also a HPF that cut out the rumble of the turntables, tryingto be flat to 30hz and cut all below. Sometimes you can switch it off on higher end phono stages, but mostly you can't.
Well yes there is little info below 30hz but not none ( as it is for ultra high too): as far as i know the tracks i talked about were exceptions anyway, but i think they all came from same facility and same engineer: The Exchange, Simon Davey. And i think he have used a VMS80 too ( still use it). I will ckeck.
We mostly had same recommendation from ME (i had mix refused cause of being not mono compatible... and at same period).
I never tested the bandwith of the phono input of mixer i used at that time. Will do with the one i still have ( Freevox and Ecler). And yes the 'rumble filter' was implemented on my 'hifi' setup at that time.
We mostly had same recommendation from ME (i had mix refused cause of being not mono compatible... and at same period).
I never tested the bandwith of the phono input of mixer i used at that time. Will do with the one i still have ( Freevox and Ecler). And yes the 'rumble filter' was implemented on my 'hifi' setup at that time.
These days i don't often play parties anymore, and if i do, it's mostly on a dub sound with a custom build "dub preamp" that does not have that. But most soundsystems use dsp now (8x8dsp modules, with the filters still from that preamp, but with eq and phase alignment, limiters and delay lines in the dsp) and most do cut at 30hz with a steep filter to avoid blown drivers. It used to be a common thing before dsp, but new drivers are very expensive...
This is one of the more popular "dub preamps" made now by a guy known in the scene as JB. Many older ones are still in use altough (taken from his FB). It's custom build dj mixer, eq and 5 way active crossover in one unit, tuned to play reggae and dub and is almost always mono (as dub sounds only play in mono) and only has one turntable/cd input as the music is not mixed traditionally. This can be customised off course, as each unit is build to order and modular. Other builders do similar things. The smaller units on top are dub sirens.
This is one of the more popular "dub preamps" made now by a guy known in the scene as JB. Many older ones are still in use altough (taken from his FB). It's custom build dj mixer, eq and 5 way active crossover in one unit, tuned to play reggae and dub and is almost always mono (as dub sounds only play in mono) and only has one turntable/cd input as the music is not mixed traditionally. This can be customised off course, as each unit is build to order and modular. Other builders do similar things. The smaller units on top are dub sirens.
Thanks for the clarification.
Yes, the idea of genre presets vs what you might label as incorrect EQ on the recording is very interesting.
And I think runs counter to intuition at times, at what might be needed..
For instance, I have to turn down the bass on dub, electronic, hip-hop, etc, vs needing to turn it up for classic rock.
AC/DC's Thunderstruck really comes alive with alot of sub boost...go figure...would have thought it would already be in.
Pop can be anywhere. Country is probably the most consistent tonally.
Our sound system used active filtering already in 2000. We had behringer analog xover and dcx2496, the gain in clarity versus passive was obvious... but it was often drunk punk operated at first, it took some dead drivers before the rack seen a locked front door to not let random guys applying 'filter effects' on the whole system when operated. Damn acid driven a..holes!
I think i've already seen JB mixers circa 15/10 years ago. Last dub system i've seen runned a tube based frontend. It was fun to listen to.
Siren are a big deal from what i've seen ( did some studio work for dancehall/ragga when still in Paris).
In what they are so special? I never got it. I usually used my DP/4+ and BBD delay/ line6 echopro to produce approaching effects but producers was not all happy about it.
Hmm. I think we drifted really OT...
I think i've already seen JB mixers circa 15/10 years ago. Last dub system i've seen runned a tube based frontend. It was fun to listen to.
Siren are a big deal from what i've seen ( did some studio work for dancehall/ragga when still in Paris).
In what they are so special? I never got it. I usually used my DP/4+ and BBD delay/ line6 echopro to produce approaching effects but producers was not all happy about it.
Hmm. I think we drifted really OT...
AC/DC’s earlier work always had a more traditional cleaner balance to it. As they progressed from glam rock to hard rock they kept the drums at natural levels and let the metal take the pace. Thunderstruck was kind of new to them as they were trying to make a connection with American audiences.
Makes sense understand where your coming from. Guess im little older. If your starting at 2000. by 1999 you could burn CDs that really changed things.
Us old farts would call all that darkcore but likely considered neurofunk by kids now. Should been more specific. 1991/92 when Breaks were hot. Running
hardware not computers. Probably call the rapping that got laid on top Jungle. But those first 3 breaks was different breakcore. But yes 93/94 jungle or dread
yes was UK rap scene. So about 500 bucks to cut a plate and had to cut the bass so the cutter didnt jump all over. But we cranked those EQ and everyone
had Vega bins or homemade copys. The UK labels for sure had better mastered records and that is what most people spun. But as producer we cut plates
not much computer stuff except sequencers. everything was hardware synth or hardware sampler. Some people call it " pressure" now. but the term was used
when producers really figured out how to ring and hold the subs. probably around 96 /98
I think what's making me old is that now I go "Genres 😵💫"
I can't tell if it's the harman curve or the bbc dip, but most midranges in recordings feel sharp. Not siblant or slow, no pre-attack like on the worst FIR corrections I've ever heard, but just loud. Is that unusual?
I can't tell if it's the harman curve or the bbc dip, but most midranges in recordings feel sharp. Not siblant or slow, no pre-attack like on the worst FIR corrections I've ever heard, but just loud. Is that unusual?
^Sadly no. It's the result from loudness war and advanced digital treatments to make everything sound loud.
In a way it's better than 'shredding' applyed to anything as it was during 00's ( to the point voices was almost unrecognisable on tv or radio sometimes).
@WhiteDragon,
I started djing 1995 and vinyl only for playback. Digital always looked like cheating to me, autosynch and things like that... Integrated Fx killed creativity in my view too ( nothing in common with seeing Ritchie Hawtin sync his dp4 to live mix or Jeff Mills synch his tr808/909 to the three mk2 all playing at once... both guy was mind boggling mixing digital/analog decks!).
Anyway i still use hardware sequencer, sampler and synth. As powerful computers can be they are nothing like instruments to me. Interface doesn't do it and is un- inspirational to me.
I look like an alien to youngers. Until they play with the toys...( that said they often complain it's not fast enough. Well it's fair but it force you to focus on what you do!) 🙂
Have you seen this?
Feel free to share memories there:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/dnb-music.396018/
In a way it's better than 'shredding' applyed to anything as it was during 00's ( to the point voices was almost unrecognisable on tv or radio sometimes).
@WhiteDragon,
I started djing 1995 and vinyl only for playback. Digital always looked like cheating to me, autosynch and things like that... Integrated Fx killed creativity in my view too ( nothing in common with seeing Ritchie Hawtin sync his dp4 to live mix or Jeff Mills synch his tr808/909 to the three mk2 all playing at once... both guy was mind boggling mixing digital/analog decks!).
Anyway i still use hardware sequencer, sampler and synth. As powerful computers can be they are nothing like instruments to me. Interface doesn't do it and is un- inspirational to me.
I look like an alien to youngers. Until they play with the toys...( that said they often complain it's not fast enough. Well it's fair but it force you to focus on what you do!) 🙂
Have you seen this?
Feel free to share memories there:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/dnb-music.396018/
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It may be easier to accomplish music, live or otherwise now, but I think that's best for composition and finished albums, even if it costs in live performances. One of my favorite examples of this was Tosin Abasi's Animals as Leaders. Last I check he had this wild EDM/jazz/metal fusion that morphed as he added more members for his live shows. It clearly started as one man's vision and became a group effort over time. I haven't heard his stuff in like five years, but his live shows were supposed to be getting really good back then.