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Nigel,
you do know that the harder it is, the more rediculous, expensive, time consuming etc. the better it sounds
Nigel,
you do know that the harder it is, the more rediculous, expensive, time consuming etc. the better it sounds
Ah yes, Emperor's New Clothes Virus, which is almost as dangerous as Covid19.
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As I see it tube rectifiers allow through more hum due to low value first cap so are inferior to SS rectifiers. Unless you like hum ?
Because it costs more and/or is harder to do doesnt make it a better option.
+1, Although I rarely ever use a 1N4007. Even in a preamp, I use 2A diodes like HER208, and in my monoblocs, I use FR607! (big first caps and no inrush make small diodes unhappy).
Of course you could always just skip the rectifier entirely and use a bank of car batteries... I wonder if anyone has done it in the name of audiophoolery?
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oh my gosh, you aren’t serious ? you can’t just swap diodes for tubes and make judgments about noise performance, the dynamic resistance drops orders of magnitude and so charging pulses will be way larger.
We all know SS will outperform tubes based on the measured results if designed properly, but that’s never been the point.
We all know SS will outperform tubes based on the measured results if designed properly, but that’s never been the point.
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A big cap after a SS Diode ? Well, the worst of two worlds...Maximizing ringing I would say.
Has anyone of you folks built a quasimodo for optizing snubbers ? I have done that, built it, optimized snubbers with high quality components for high quality transformers...and no matter what, it sounded not more than OK. The whole trick is to avoid the bad switching noises from the beginning on and not to produce a problem (EMF/ringing)and try to built a fix afterwards around it (snubber).
There are multiple ways to do that, but thís goes off topic now. The topic here was tube rectifiers...and coincidently it is as well much better sounding for a SS-Diode based PSU if you apply some best practises from the tube times which are:
- start with either choke input or a small cap. Than with each LC or RC C becomes bigger. The impulse response of your PSU looks much better, much less overshoots and faster. https://www.dhtrob.com/overige/pdf/dhtrob_psu.pdf
- use Duncan's PSUD and have a look at the current spikes on your first C. Compare this with a LC stage as first element... We get from many A down to mA for a filamenet supply as an example...and yes, you can hear the lesser EMF radiation..even though we talk only about the filament supply of a DHT....and now you can use better lytics in smaller values...I came down from 33000uF Epcos to 6600uF Silmic in this example.
- try different SS diodes by just make them switchable (with a plug)...it is similar to the effect of tube rolling, try a MUR120 vs. Cree Sic Diode vs hexfret vs germanium diodes. See what your poison is...And those old Germanium diodes need burnin time...but they produce a lot less switching noise than any of the high-tec diodes before....like a tube rectifier, but for higher currents (e.g. digital circuits)...or try the LT4320 road with mosfets as diodes...the target is the same...no switching noise from the beginning on.
- Have somone who knows the secret of windin a good quality power transfomer. Depending how it is wound, it has quiet an impact on the sound of your system..some of the stuff you can see in PSUD, some of the stuff you have to learn by experiments (like winding geometry/material/effects of multiple taps etc). Our friend 50AE here in the forum is a master winder, we can be glad he is around, see the fabulous page of dhtrob ...DHTRob - An AD1 preamplifier with Alexander Naydenov transformers
Has anyone of you folks built a quasimodo for optizing snubbers ? I have done that, built it, optimized snubbers with high quality components for high quality transformers...and no matter what, it sounded not more than OK. The whole trick is to avoid the bad switching noises from the beginning on and not to produce a problem (EMF/ringing)and try to built a fix afterwards around it (snubber).
There are multiple ways to do that, but thís goes off topic now. The topic here was tube rectifiers...and coincidently it is as well much better sounding for a SS-Diode based PSU if you apply some best practises from the tube times which are:
- start with either choke input or a small cap. Than with each LC or RC C becomes bigger. The impulse response of your PSU looks much better, much less overshoots and faster. https://www.dhtrob.com/overige/pdf/dhtrob_psu.pdf
- use Duncan's PSUD and have a look at the current spikes on your first C. Compare this with a LC stage as first element... We get from many A down to mA for a filamenet supply as an example...and yes, you can hear the lesser EMF radiation..even though we talk only about the filament supply of a DHT....and now you can use better lytics in smaller values...I came down from 33000uF Epcos to 6600uF Silmic in this example.
- try different SS diodes by just make them switchable (with a plug)...it is similar to the effect of tube rolling, try a MUR120 vs. Cree Sic Diode vs hexfret vs germanium diodes. See what your poison is...And those old Germanium diodes need burnin time...but they produce a lot less switching noise than any of the high-tec diodes before....like a tube rectifier, but for higher currents (e.g. digital circuits)...or try the LT4320 road with mosfets as diodes...the target is the same...no switching noise from the beginning on.
- Have somone who knows the secret of windin a good quality power transfomer. Depending how it is wound, it has quiet an impact on the sound of your system..some of the stuff you can see in PSUD, some of the stuff you have to learn by experiments (like winding geometry/material/effects of multiple taps etc). Our friend 50AE here in the forum is a master winder, we can be glad he is around, see the fabulous page of dhtrob ...DHTRob - An AD1 preamplifier with Alexander Naydenov transformers
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High PIV Schottky diodes are "noiseless". There is no reverse recovery spike in the unipolar devices, as the root cause of the noise, minority carrier injection, is not present.
Yes, large valued cap. I/P filters generate "hash". However, that can, quite easily, be managed. Scan the archives here and over on AA for my repeated posts about "hash" filtration.
Yes, large valued cap. I/P filters generate "hash". However, that can, quite easily, be managed. Scan the archives here and over on AA for my repeated posts about "hash" filtration.
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High PIV Schottky diodes are "noiseless". There is no reverse recovery spike in the unipolar devices, as the root cause of the noise, minority carrier injection, is not present.
Yes, great on paper, but why does the sound with Sic Schottky suck so badly?
I built a valve mixer using Schottky diodes and it sounded great.
Same for a 80 watt PP amp.
Same for 10 watt PP amp.
I found this very interesting thread which lasted for years
I'm currently built a headphone amp which is my second device that use tubes (except for tube pedals). A forum in facebook inspired me to use tube rectifier which made my amp design ALL TUBES. There is no solid state at all and those tubes surprised me cause the amp making sound just like solid state one does. I used Toshiba's 6X4 for rectification and a CLC filter following with RC filtered VR150 for preamp tubes.
Because it's my first power amp (or headphone amp), this tube rectified amp sounds like what solid state does but sweeter.
This is the power supply schematic.
Even the rectifier tube shared same heater supply which is connected to ground with 220R resistor which rises cathode-to-heater potential voltage a lot. Hope it won't blow so quick.
I'm currently built a headphone amp which is my second device that use tubes (except for tube pedals). A forum in facebook inspired me to use tube rectifier which made my amp design ALL TUBES. There is no solid state at all and those tubes surprised me cause the amp making sound just like solid state one does. I used Toshiba's 6X4 for rectification and a CLC filter following with RC filtered VR150 for preamp tubes.
Because it's my first power amp (or headphone amp), this tube rectified amp sounds like what solid state does but sweeter.
This is the power supply schematic.
Even the rectifier tube shared same heater supply which is connected to ground with 220R resistor which rises cathode-to-heater potential voltage a lot. Hope it won't blow so quick.
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If you like it, you like it. SS diode in series with 100R or so can usually mimic a tube rectifier in my experience.
I personally believe that if you hear a difference between rectifiers, you need more current handling and less voltage drop AKA SS diodes. I think you're hearing the deficiencies rather than the benefits.
Just my opinion... I could be wrong.
I personally believe that if you hear a difference between rectifiers, you need more current handling and less voltage drop AKA SS diodes. I think you're hearing the deficiencies rather than the benefits.
Just my opinion... I could be wrong.
Count me in as one who hears small but meaningful differences. I did a lot of shootouts of rectifiers recently, like several 5U4 types and 5Z3 types in the same amp and there were subtle differences. Voltage and current were the same. Certainly not night and day but just enough to establish a preference. There are a few 5u4 shootouts about and they all note subtle differences. Since some cost hundreds of pounds/dollars you would imagine users would think they are getting their money's worth.
I can't remember ever seeing a tube rectifier in a Neve mixing console or any other make for that matter, Calrec, Studer, Yamaha, Mackie, A & H etc.
All music is handled by solid state devices for decades now with solid state rectifiers inc for microphones nowadays.
Perhaps all those people claiming power supply noise in their music should have gone to work for Neve or in a professional studio environment?
What are we doing wrong?
I can't remember ever seeing a tube rectifier in a Neve mixing console or any other make for that matter, Calrec, Studer, Yamaha, Mackie, A & H etc. All music is handled by solid state devices for decades now with solid state rectifiers inc for microphones nowadays. Perhaps all those people claiming power supply noise in their music should have gone to work for Neve or in a professional studio environment? What are we doing wrong?
Of course this is all true and a useful reminder. But it's still the case that all playback amps do not sound exactly the same, so when you go down to parts level you might or might not hear differences. The 2v line signal is being amplified many times so it's not too surprising. There are real measured differences, audible differences and imagined differences where there are practically none actually there. It's a landscape we're all used to.