Are you saying that it has so much loop gain that any line level cables will have zero audible effect on the sound? Even if its 10-15 feet from the preamp to the power amps (say, preamp is near the listening position, and power amps are close to the speakers; cables are routed along the wall then across the power amps). Seems doubtful to me. Could be less effect though with the opamp in there. Of course, then you have the sound of opamp.
Its always a question of specifics isn't it? Sensitivity is always relative.
Even if there was no change in sound with any cables over a shorter distance, there are still other problems without the opamp in there. The front is IME not optimal if used open loop at the beginning. Also the hi-z at the node of the 1meg gain setting resistor may lead to DC offset issues of the input transistors to the next stage aren't matched. At least somebody should check how well this thing actually works in the hacked condition.
Its always a question of specifics isn't it? Sensitivity is always relative.
Even if there was no change in sound with any cables over a shorter distance, there are still other problems without the opamp in there. The front is IME not optimal if used open loop at the beginning. Also the hi-z at the node of the 1meg gain setting resistor may lead to DC offset issues of the input transistors to the next stage aren't matched. At least somebody should check how well this thing actually works in the hacked condition.
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I'm speechless.
Listened for over 5 hours to this Chinese R2R DAC with the Accuphase clone.
One gets the impression that the discreete part of the Accuphase clone was specifically designed to be directly driven by the resistor ladder of the DAC.
In the high and midrange this combination is by memory on par with a transformer coupled AK4497. The bass is tight and controlled and at the same time mighty. Dynamics from top to bottom better than ES9039 with Burson V7V/Sparkos 2590.
Man I hope that this performance will continue on different loads. The Sennheiser has 600 Ohms.
One other thing that is remarkable is the fact that the DDC coming with the R2R DAC seems to be really good, otherwise I would not get this remarkable sound.
The best no-brainer in Audio I have ever encountered in my 40+ years in this hobby.
Klaus
Listened for over 5 hours to this Chinese R2R DAC with the Accuphase clone.
One gets the impression that the discreete part of the Accuphase clone was specifically designed to be directly driven by the resistor ladder of the DAC.
In the high and midrange this combination is by memory on par with a transformer coupled AK4497. The bass is tight and controlled and at the same time mighty. Dynamics from top to bottom better than ES9039 with Burson V7V/Sparkos 2590.
Man I hope that this performance will continue on different loads. The Sennheiser has 600 Ohms.
One other thing that is remarkable is the fact that the DDC coming with the R2R DAC seems to be really good, otherwise I would not get this remarkable sound.
The best no-brainer in Audio I have ever encountered in my 40+ years in this hobby.
Klaus
Have you ever been hesitant to measure, afraid of what you may find?
Have my handheld scope with me but instead of clipping on the probe I hit the play button and got lost in the music for over 5 hours. I'm not going to spoil my fun.😉
Have my handheld scope with me but instead of clipping on the probe I hit the play button and got lost in the music for over 5 hours. I'm not going to spoil my fun.😉
This is the SilentSwitcher used here. Unfortunately sold out.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/gb-for-new-silentswitcher.419103/post-7825131
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/gb-for-new-silentswitcher.419103/post-7825131
Bummer I see the Silent Switcher as an integral part in this scenario. It's so convenient to have all voltages available via USB C especially at this quality.
No mods except a change to Nichicon Muse. Had only seen the other thread because Mark linked to it.
Will look at it when I get home.
Will look at it when I get home.
Sorry if I was overly critical. The cost of this looks very low, with Silent Switcher maybe being the most expensive part. Not sure how its all powered and the cost of that. Anyway, given the low cost it may sound especially good for the price.
It just that for me bargain price is not what I am looking for at the moment. If anything I need an output stage I can recommend to builders of MarcelvdG RTZ DSD dacs. They are not especially low cost projects by the time all is said and done. There is some nitpicking to try to get the best sound possible without too much regard to cost.
In that very different context, probably the Chinese Accuphase clone is not good enough. Better parts in some places would probably help, but some rework of the design would probably also be needed to improve the linearity of the very front end which is out of any feedback loop when there is no opamp. Maybe add a DC servo too. Then we would have to see how it turns out after that.
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The price of the DAC in the Aliexpress link in post #5 is 145 EUR so the cost is not exactly very low.
The DAC from post 5 was just a quick test to see if it works as well as the one from post 2. The Dac from post number 2 is what I listened to last night. That one can be had for about $120 including the DDC. That is a bargain.
From the top of my head I can list more than 12 dacs some ready made but most as boards. On all of them I tried several output stages. Transformer coupling, tubes, pricey discreet opamps. Had the whole AKM line from AK4393 to Ak 4497. Never heard a AK4499 though. Until 5 years ago I hated ESS but the ES9093 with the Sparkos SS2590Pro is really good and beats the AKMs. But I miss some naturalness.
For me the Chinese R2R DAC with the Accuphase clone board bar any opamps is the most complete sound. Now this is all judging by memory and evaluation was via headphones 🎧.
Now I don't assume that the combination will sound better than a Holo Spring or Denafrips Venus or any of the 5 digit offerings.
All I know is that this is the sound I was searching for and never found with AKM or ESS chips. Spacious dynamic powerful. I will see if it fairs as well on my main rig.
Depends. Some dacs are more tolerant of voltage variation on their outputs. Modern current output dac chips such as those made by ESS like to have I/V converter hold the dac output voltage at a very stable fixed value. OTOH, some older dac chips without higher output impedances were more tolerant of a little output voltage variation.
Anyway, in some cases you might be able to use something like low value resistor I/V then go into a voltage amplifier.
Anyway, in some cases you might be able to use something like low value resistor I/V then go into a voltage amplifier.
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Tried the SMSL DO100pro DDC which brought a marked improvement to the Wiim Ultra but I couldn't detect much of a difference on this setup.
That's good news as a decent DDC can cost more than this whole Chinese R2R DAC.
What made a bit of a difference was dismantle the USB cable and feed the DDC by the Silent Switcher.
Didn't realize that the Dac was not using the Switcher but the phone's power so the phone was feeding the DDC and the Chip of the DAC.
That's good news as a decent DDC can cost more than this whole Chinese R2R DAC.
What made a bit of a difference was dismantle the USB cable and feed the DDC by the Silent Switcher.
Didn't realize that the Dac was not using the Switcher but the phone's power so the phone was feeding the DDC and the Chip of the DAC.
We are waiting for experiments with tubes, because it is clear that the board is already waiting ... 🙂
Here you go, the Chinese train to sonic bliss.
The tube pre is fresh out of the box and after about 45 minutes it came alive by adding dimensionality and instruments gained naturalness.
No loss of details or rolled off heights.
Got the same tube pre in my main rig with better tubes and coupling caps. Glad I listened to the people who praised this tube pre on YouTube. The ready made unit that is.
The tube pre is fresh out of the box and after about 45 minutes it came alive by adding dimensionality and instruments gained naturalness.
No loss of details or rolled off heights.
Got the same tube pre in my main rig with better tubes and coupling caps. Glad I listened to the people who praised this tube pre on YouTube. The ready made unit that is.
Attachments
Here you go, the Chinese train to sonic bliss.
The tube pre is fresh out of the box and after about 45 minutes it came alive by adding dimensionality and instruments gained naturalness.
No loss of details or rolled off heights.
Got the same tube pre in my main rig with better tubes and coupling caps. Glad I listened to the people who praised this tube pre on YouTube. The ready made unit that is.
The tube pre is fresh out of the box and after about 45 minutes it came alive by adding dimensionality and instruments gained naturalness.
No loss of details or rolled off heights.
Got the same tube pre in my main rig with better tubes and coupling caps. Glad I listened to the people who praised this tube pre on YouTube. The ready made unit that is.