"The old 1970's 5532 /4 has a slew of only 12v/uS - swapping them out is like night and day on my system"
Nothing to do with the it's slew rate.
Nothing to do with the it's slew rate.
Hi ZestClub,
Well, you are either trolling, or you haven't any clue as to what you are talking about. TI's inventory has had some extremely good audio products, they have a very complete audio analogue group.
Some people are convinced they can hear things that don't exist. For some, experience can help. For others, well they need medication.
Coming back to the original point of the thread now ... lowering distortion can sometimes be audible depending on how bad it was and the improvement made. The circuit design has the most to say about distortion if you use decent parts. So far anything you have suggested does not improve things. Not over the audible band anyway. The original transistors (if legit) are pretty good. Over decades, I have replaced earlier, not nearly as good parts with modern excellent parts. I can get improvements, but I also have to redo the high frequency stability compensation many times. More often it is about matching in multiple output parts, but the flatter beta vs collector current characteristic is the key, not the high frequency cut-off as you are suggesting. In fact, some older, faster parts do not perform as well in amplifiers as newer ones that are slower do. Also, if the PCB layout is bad, you have a huge limiting factor to get past.
The biggest improvements to performance are things I don't talk about. Measureable and clearly audible.
So, in your case ...
Well, you are either trolling, or you haven't any clue as to what you are talking about. TI's inventory has had some extremely good audio products, they have a very complete audio analogue group.
Some people are convinced they can hear things that don't exist. For some, experience can help. For others, well they need medication.
Coming back to the original point of the thread now ... lowering distortion can sometimes be audible depending on how bad it was and the improvement made. The circuit design has the most to say about distortion if you use decent parts. So far anything you have suggested does not improve things. Not over the audible band anyway. The original transistors (if legit) are pretty good. Over decades, I have replaced earlier, not nearly as good parts with modern excellent parts. I can get improvements, but I also have to redo the high frequency stability compensation many times. More often it is about matching in multiple output parts, but the flatter beta vs collector current characteristic is the key, not the high frequency cut-off as you are suggesting. In fact, some older, faster parts do not perform as well in amplifiers as newer ones that are slower do. Also, if the PCB layout is bad, you have a huge limiting factor to get past.
The biggest improvements to performance are things I don't talk about. Measureable and clearly audible.
So, in your case ...
Yup. Easy. Leave it alone.
With so many areas of the brain that deal with processing sound there is no reason to assume we all interpret audio in the same way:
brainstem/ cochlear nuclei
superior olivary complex
inferior colliculus
thalamus/ medial geniculate nucleus (MGN),
auditory cortex
amygdala
hippocampus
prefrontal cortex
brainstem/ cochlear nuclei
superior olivary complex
inferior colliculus
thalamus/ medial geniculate nucleus (MGN),
auditory cortex
amygdala
hippocampus
prefrontal cortex
OPA828 vs OPA827 vs OPA627 vs MUSES05
Like above, either you are a troll, or a clown with knowledge gained from people who are trying to sell snake oil.
If you want to improve the sound in your house, first clear the junk out of your mind.
Then, take the same amp to another location, use different speakers, your speakers may have their own faults.
Third, build your own new system, there are many choices, the output depends on how big your listening area is, and the room treatment.
Typically, 40W / ch. RMS is enough for most dwellings.
And when you build your own system, you have many choices, from current Toshiba discretes, to LM1875, to LM3886, tubes, whatever takes your fancy.
Preamp, your choice.
Remember, the amp is designed to faithfully amplify the input, and do that with minimal distortion, there are RIAA, DIN, JIS, GOST and other standards in place for that.
So either you design your own, based on whatever cow dung ideas you have, or make one that works properly.
As for your perception...plenty of idiots out there, for example some British clown was saying that the closure of Western owned bearing factories had caused Russian soldiers to scrounge for bearings from tanks blown up in battle.
If you have ever replaced a bearing, it is difficult to put back the same bearing after greasing or whatever. Using an explosively damaged bearing is stupid, it will be deformed, will not work. That tells you a lot about the writer of the article.
Another idiot says the MiG-25 has a delerious fuel consumption rate, without specifying it, or how he arrived at that conclusion.
So come back out to reality, the 1943/5200 pair is considered a superior performer even today.
And ST say in their data sheets for the TDA2030 that a sle rate of more than 20 is too much, the speakers will not repond fast enough.
And leave the current system alone, you do not need to alter it.
'Dreaded 5532' was probably a stupid below 30 audio magazine reviewer without any technical knowledge, and certainly without any distortion measuring equipment / time to check data sheets. Typical clowns...same man or female (!) may be doing restaurant pizza reviews elsewhere.
If you want to improve the sound in your house, first clear the junk out of your mind.
Then, take the same amp to another location, use different speakers, your speakers may have their own faults.
Third, build your own new system, there are many choices, the output depends on how big your listening area is, and the room treatment.
Typically, 40W / ch. RMS is enough for most dwellings.
And when you build your own system, you have many choices, from current Toshiba discretes, to LM1875, to LM3886, tubes, whatever takes your fancy.
Preamp, your choice.
Remember, the amp is designed to faithfully amplify the input, and do that with minimal distortion, there are RIAA, DIN, JIS, GOST and other standards in place for that.
So either you design your own, based on whatever cow dung ideas you have, or make one that works properly.
As for your perception...plenty of idiots out there, for example some British clown was saying that the closure of Western owned bearing factories had caused Russian soldiers to scrounge for bearings from tanks blown up in battle.
If you have ever replaced a bearing, it is difficult to put back the same bearing after greasing or whatever. Using an explosively damaged bearing is stupid, it will be deformed, will not work. That tells you a lot about the writer of the article.
Another idiot says the MiG-25 has a delerious fuel consumption rate, without specifying it, or how he arrived at that conclusion.
So come back out to reality, the 1943/5200 pair is considered a superior performer even today.
And ST say in their data sheets for the TDA2030 that a sle rate of more than 20 is too much, the speakers will not repond fast enough.
And leave the current system alone, you do not need to alter it.
'Dreaded 5532' was probably a stupid below 30 audio magazine reviewer without any technical knowledge, and certainly without any distortion measuring equipment / time to check data sheets. Typical clowns...same man or female (!) may be doing restaurant pizza reviews elsewhere.
The sound system in my studio is 16Kw - "40w" would sound like a tin can in the corner LoL
Last edited:
How big is your studio in square and cubic feet?
How many transistor paitrs driving it?
What amp?
16 kW PMPO or RMS?
16 kW is a stadium grade system, rock concert loudness, to put it in perspective.
How many transistor paitrs driving it?
What amp?
16 kW PMPO or RMS?
16 kW is a stadium grade system, rock concert loudness, to put it in perspective.
Its a PA system so yes multiples of these drivers get used in line arrays in stadiums as an example - but at a lot more than just 16Kw.
Its balanced so 16 power transistors per side 32 total max 4.5Kw per amp x 4 amps.
The pro-ribbons can go to 130db.
Its balanced so 16 power transistors per side 32 total max 4.5Kw per amp x 4 amps.
The pro-ribbons can go to 130db.
You expect hi fi on a PA system, and at 18 kW?
You must try pro audio forums, I feel your expectations are wrong, hi fi in an auditorium, or open to sky stadium has its own issues.
4 x 4.5 = 18kW, not quite normal audio use.
You must try pro audio forums, I feel your expectations are wrong, hi fi in an auditorium, or open to sky stadium has its own issues.
4 x 4.5 = 18kW, not quite normal audio use.
That's always been the aim and it does sound very good - like Hi Fi level but with much more punch and impact.
The ribbons are used in recording studios and high end installations like concert halls and opera houses so its not that surprising.
Rebuilt crossovers are here BTW:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/dbx-234xl-opamp-crossover-upgrade.416571/
The ribbons are used in recording studios and high end installations like concert halls and opera houses so its not that surprising.
Rebuilt crossovers are here BTW:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/dbx-234xl-opamp-crossover-upgrade.416571/
Not pro audio forums - the only advice you will get there is to hire out professional engineers to design your system. And buy a more expensive canned solution if the current one does not meet expectations. DIYing anything is taboo. And they are not wrong 99.9% of the time.
16kW is NOT stadium grade. It is music festival or dance STUDIO or small underground or ranch rave size. Stadium size adds some zeros. Mine is in the 30kW range, when configured for headroom and sound quality. When war volumes are required, I take things out of bridge mode and run higher impedances. Less power, but will take being turned up to 15 when “the roof is on fire”.
In any of these applications, trying to improve the sound quality of the amplifiers by swapping out “better” parts is barking up the wrong tree. The only upgrades to the C5200 that are meaningful are ruggedness upgrades with MJL3281 or MJL21194. I would simply use those for new design. If the sound quality of the amp is a bottleneck you are underpowered for the SPL you are trying to achieve. FORGET subtleties that audiophiles quibble over regarding fT’s, slew rates, even harmonic distortion profiles. At these output levels any competently designed amp that can put out full power to 20kHz can be used as a tweeter amp, any that can put out full power at 20Hz (for at least 10 seconds at a time) can be used for subs. The subtle characteristics of the SPEAKERS are far more important to what you hear. Yes, amplifiers DO make a difference. But all of that depends on whether there is sufficient power/headroom, and how the amps behave when grossly overdriven.
16kW is NOT stadium grade. It is music festival or dance STUDIO or small underground or ranch rave size. Stadium size adds some zeros. Mine is in the 30kW range, when configured for headroom and sound quality. When war volumes are required, I take things out of bridge mode and run higher impedances. Less power, but will take being turned up to 15 when “the roof is on fire”.
In any of these applications, trying to improve the sound quality of the amplifiers by swapping out “better” parts is barking up the wrong tree. The only upgrades to the C5200 that are meaningful are ruggedness upgrades with MJL3281 or MJL21194. I would simply use those for new design. If the sound quality of the amp is a bottleneck you are underpowered for the SPL you are trying to achieve. FORGET subtleties that audiophiles quibble over regarding fT’s, slew rates, even harmonic distortion profiles. At these output levels any competently designed amp that can put out full power to 20kHz can be used as a tweeter amp, any that can put out full power at 20Hz (for at least 10 seconds at a time) can be used for subs. The subtle characteristics of the SPEAKERS are far more important to what you hear. Yes, amplifiers DO make a difference. But all of that depends on whether there is sufficient power/headroom, and how the amps behave when grossly overdriven.
Appreciate the feedback.
None of the amps are really used close to their limits, typically 50% max.
The hardest driven amp (Alcons ALC 4) is for the 21" Eminence NSW6021 subs, they can take up to 5Kw each but at that volume the furniture would be going round in circles!
None of the amps are really used close to their limits, typically 50% max.
The hardest driven amp (Alcons ALC 4) is for the 21" Eminence NSW6021 subs, they can take up to 5Kw each but at that volume the furniture would be going round in circles!
Considering the application, the PA subforum here is probably appropriate. But the original question had to do with SQ upgrades for the power trannies which can go either place. Going elsewhere that is more professionally-focused (not naming names) you get an extreme anti-DIY bias toward every aspect of it. If your purpose is building amplifiers or speakers don’t go there. If you’re looking for general professional advice, that’s different.
At sound levels where it surrounds you, penetrates you, and binds the galaxy together one can’t even tell the difference in the crossover distortion of a class AB+B stage (like the old PL or Crown) from optimally biased LAPTs. One can tell if the output stage is running out of current gain at high load, or if the capacitors are too small. There is simply less energy on the floor - and that IS detectable. Measurable too. Distortion is already above any threshold considered “hi-fi”.
At sound levels where it surrounds you, penetrates you, and binds the galaxy together one can’t even tell the difference in the crossover distortion of a class AB+B stage (like the old PL or Crown) from optimally biased LAPTs. One can tell if the output stage is running out of current gain at high load, or if the capacitors are too small. There is simply less energy on the floor - and that IS detectable. Measurable too. Distortion is already above any threshold considered “hi-fi”.
Not exclusively, but often. In the Standard Business Model, where nothing is owned outright, that is probably true. If whatever this audio system is for is not your primary source of revenue, there is something to be said for Using What You Have. Or can get for less than retail. I for one am not about to dump four racks full of iron pigs to spend $80,000 on brand new class D just to keep up with the times. Hell I’m in planning phases of building an ALL TUBE PA rig - gathering parts and scheming. It’s a race to see whether me or Tubelab George has enough time on his hands first. Stone knives and bear skins anyone?