The relationship between Language and Thought

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#41
jacco vermeulen said:
How does a person, who speaks a variety of languages, think.
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touche 😉

Having once been fairly fluent in German, and a native english speaker, it almost seems like language is a social thing. I thought in german when interacting in german, and thought in english (and sometimes in german) when alone or speaking with english speakers. I remember first month or so was spent translating thoughts, which gets exhausting very quickly.

hypothesis:
Language = the structure by which our thoughts are communicated.
 
#44
Studies were done in the past and it's evident that we all think in our native language.

Example: If one were to want a beer, you might think about the beer but, at the same time, you metally form the words "I want a beer" etc if the language is English.

This poses an interesting question.... Can one think more cleary if their language is more discriptive and vice versa?
Also, did the evolution of language promote the evolution of human intellegence?
 
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#46
thadman said:
If I "think" in English, as that is my arterial language, and a German "thinks" in German, as that is his arterial language, how does a person, who doesn't speak a particular language, "think"?

To satisfy the inherent constraints of this philosophical dilemma, assume that the latter individual has existed on a deserted tropical island in the pacific for his entire life. One rich in natural resources, but necessarily devoid of any potential for human contact and interaction.

Thadman
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His or hers thought process will very limited without a language.
 
#47
that poor bstrd , living alone on some Island , will - eventually - start to think my thoughts

who need hundred of books and myriad of hours contemplating , to conclude that conclusion ?
 

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#48
JoeDJ said:
Studies were done in the past and it's evident that we all think in our native language.

Example: If one were to want a beer, you might think about the beer but, at the same time, you metally form the words "I want a beer" etc if the language is English.

This poses an interesting question.... Can one think more cleary if their language is more discriptive and vice versa?
Also, did the evolution of language promote the evolution of human intellegence?
Click to expand...

My experience is differ from this. Once you start dreaming in a language, you're sort of home and operating in a vocabulary confined area. The only time you hit the borders of that area, when your vocabulary fails and you only able to come up with the term in an other language. Amazing really, how the whole thing works with a limited vocabulary to. 😀
 
#49
JoeDJ said:
Studies were done in the past and it's evident that we all think in our native language.

Example: If one were to want a beer, you might think about the beer but, at the same time, you metally form the words "I want a beer" etc if the language is English.

This poses an interesting question.... Can one think more cleary if their language is more discriptive and vice versa?
Also, did the evolution of language promote the evolution of human intellegence?
Click to expand...


It's pretty common to find that people count in their native language and often do math in the language that they learned it in (it's not always the same one either).

However, I know quite a few (several hundred) people for whom English is not their native language, yet they think in English. I recently asked a old friend when he first started "thinking" in English (he's originally from China). He said that he wasn't sure, but one day he was startled by the realization that he was thinking in English, and evidently, had been doing so for a while.

It is apparent that true mastery of a language is evident when a person understands not only the words, but the humor of the culture. There are so many cultural allusions and play upon words in humor, that only a deep understanding allows for comprehension.

Best Regards,
TerryO
 
#50
miklos said:
My experience is differ from this. Once you start dreaming in a language, you're sort of home and operating in a vocabulary confined area. The only time you hit the borders of that area, when your vocabulary fails and you only able to come up with the term in an other language. Amazing really, how the whole thing works with a limited vocabulary to. 😀
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Ok.. try this...... try not to think of any words when you go about your daily life. It's impossible as we all do it even if we are not aware af it.
 
#51
I have doubt that I'm different in that from other ppl - I can't say that I'm thinking in language ; thinking for me is matter of mental pictures , not verbalization of same .

my thoughts are smoothly "translated" in my native language , either in writing or speech ;

my thoughts are less smoothly translated in English writing , but real problems arise with speaking - just because I don't have much speaking praxis ; simply - I always have difficulty because of too fast mental process vs. vocalization of same , doesn't matter is it my native , Deutsche Sprach which I learn in school , or ZMEngrish which I never learn in organized way ; fact is that I'm less used to pronounce English words , than my native ones ..... :clown:

dunno - some of these things are certainly related with few facts - pretty early in my childhood I became sort of "diagonal reader" , when needed and effective enough ; my preferred form of writing became verse , just from fact that I can put more in one line than on entire page of usual writing :rofl:

I know that I'm not exactly contributing to subject ..... but just few moments from me , just to spice things a little

:devily:

edit:

and yes - language is matter of vocalization and defining ; not thinking .

ask David Hume .
 
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#56
Understanding body language is a talent some people seem to be missing; I can't believe the amount of info the turning of an eye still gives me or the way of walking or the movement of a hand....

Nowadays people pay too much attention to words and that's why many get the meaning all wrong; then you hear things like: I thought i knew him well... can't believe what he has turned out to be, etc. If only they could understand body language a bit better. Same thing with sex: I'm tired of listening to endless questions about women's behavior... does she love me? Does she not?
I can't understand what she wants, etc. Ahhh.... this world is full of blind people.
 
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#60
So, what's the language of our dreams?

Dreams are, to some extent or other, our thoughts, and a process must arise for this dream world to exist.

Consider this - in our dreams, we're usually somewhere where there's gravity, and other basic things we experience every day. I rode a bicycle in a dream, yet I don't have the language to explain how to do so to another person.

A friend once told me that English is so limiting (in terms of communicating an exact collection of thoughts) compared to the other languages she speaks. I believe her because I'm having trouble explaining that I think language is a window into our minds, should we choose to use it.
From this, someone that can't speak (because they haven't learnt, because they're unable, whatever) isn't automatically incapable of thought. They just might struggle to show their thoughts by communicating.
A clear window is a language that conveys every nuance of our thoughts. A murky window gives an unclear, ambiguous message.

Well, it made sense when I wrote it.

Chris
 
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