Re: Doubtful
I'd say it looks more like contributors, lurkers, and whiners. I don't know what your axe to grind with those that provide PCB's, group buys and kits is, but based on this and your prior posts, you definitely have one. I hate to state the obvious, but if you can't handle all these "buyers and sellers", you should take yourself to another forum that doesn't permit them. Nobody forces you to be here and deal with all these "buyers and sellers," so I'm not sure why you think everyone wants to listen to you complain about them.
Only he knows what it costs in the quantities he's ordering. It could be a dollar, could be 2, could be more. I know that a board like that in the states is probably not cheap, since BrianGT was charging $15 for one that's not much bigger than 4 of the regulator boards.
Then add on the other costs: how much is the time he spent designing the board, testing it, revising it, etc. worth? Or the time he's taking to ship all this stuff to folks around the world, or the time taken to coordinate it? On top of that, I really don't care if he makes money from it -- at $4, it's inexpensive enough to be worth the money to me.
As for the DIY comment, I guess the DIY part is in the components I choose to populate it, and the case I put it in. If you were going to build a car, would you make the frame yourself? Or would you buy one from a professional?
At what level does it cease being do it yourself project? With your comment, I hope you're winding your own power transformers with wire you've drawn by hand. After all, it wouldn't be a true do-it-yourself if you weren't smelting the ore to create your own wire, or depositing the metal film on the ceramic core to create your own resistors.
I'd been looking for regulator boards for quite a while. Digi happened to have something I was looking for, and ironically enough, the majority of mine will be used in other projects. To be quite frank, I don't have the time to take up the art of PCB design and do the design myself. I don't believe that should prevent me from using a well-designed PCB.
I'll address your comments regarding your's and pedjas work below.
With your comment about fewer people contributing here, I highly doubt that. People will come, people will go. That's the nature of a forum. As such, new ideas and new contributers will flow in, while others find they have better uses of their time.
First off, Pedja, I want to explain that I am not personally attacking you on this. I want to be very clear that I have no problem with you, or your contributions. However, my response is to post#2 and #3 in this thread. I guess I don't understand what you mean by this in post #2:
So he creates a LM338/LT1058 regulator board, and offers it up with an inverted LM3886 board. People like them and are buying them like hotcakes. Apparently feel like he owes you and the others who post on this forum something. Please explain why you or any others deserve credit or have any right to tell him not to offer his design up for sale.
Last I checked, this forum is a place to exchange ideas and help out folks who want to build various components in the audio playback chain. You are apparently complaining because someone implemented some of your ideas, along with other folks ideas, all of which are based on the national semi datasheet. Oh, and lest we forget, he's offering up a BOARD to other DIY folks who would like to try this stuff out for themselves. This seems to be pretty much in the spirit of the forum to me.
Digi, as far as I know, is not sitting in china building amps for living based on the contents of this forum. Even if he were, I would argue that:
1) His regulator board is based on the national semi design. Even if you claim he copied your schematic, yours looks identical to the one provided by national on the LM338 datasheet in Figure 3 of the Application hints. That negates any credit he would owe you on the regulator section.
2) The inverted LM3886 has been around for as long as I can remember. It was around long before there was a chipamp forum on DIY Audio. In fact, I remember when it was originally posted by thorsten on anothe forum dedicated to chipamps and cloning the 47labs gaincard. To top it all off, it's his own implementation of it!
If he owes any credit to anyone, it *might* be to thorsten/Kuei Yang Wang for the inversion of the 3886, and to national semi for the LM338 regulator and the original 3886 typical application schematic. Regulating an amplifier is nothing new. I don't know why folks think that applying a regulator to an amplifier based around a chip is groundshaking work.
till said:
I'd say it looks more like contributors, lurkers, and whiners. I don't know what your axe to grind with those that provide PCB's, group buys and kits is, but based on this and your prior posts, you definitely have one. I hate to state the obvious, but if you can't handle all these "buyers and sellers", you should take yourself to another forum that doesn't permit them. Nobody forces you to be here and deal with all these "buyers and sellers," so I'm not sure why you think everyone wants to listen to you complain about them.
D_GR8_1 said:
Only he knows what it costs in the quantities he's ordering. It could be a dollar, could be 2, could be more. I know that a board like that in the states is probably not cheap, since BrianGT was charging $15 for one that's not much bigger than 4 of the regulator boards.
Then add on the other costs: how much is the time he spent designing the board, testing it, revising it, etc. worth? Or the time he's taking to ship all this stuff to folks around the world, or the time taken to coordinate it? On top of that, I really don't care if he makes money from it -- at $4, it's inexpensive enough to be worth the money to me.
As for the DIY comment, I guess the DIY part is in the components I choose to populate it, and the case I put it in. If you were going to build a car, would you make the frame yourself? Or would you buy one from a professional?
At what level does it cease being do it yourself project? With your comment, I hope you're winding your own power transformers with wire you've drawn by hand. After all, it wouldn't be a true do-it-yourself if you weren't smelting the ore to create your own wire, or depositing the metal film on the ceramic core to create your own resistors.
carlosfm said:
This is no use.
A guy takes the efford to build, test, listen to a (not revolutionary, of course) regulated LM338 PSU with a GC.
He makes a schematic and puts it on his site.
It starts generating interest and people start building it.
Yes, if it wasn't Pedja you probably would not be buying any regulator boards, or even using them.😡
People who contribute with ideas here will slowly run away (as many went) and this site will become something like Velleman's catalogue.
Stopped in time.
Have fun.
I'd been looking for regulator boards for quite a while. Digi happened to have something I was looking for, and ironically enough, the majority of mine will be used in other projects. To be quite frank, I don't have the time to take up the art of PCB design and do the design myself. I don't believe that should prevent me from using a well-designed PCB.
I'll address your comments regarding your's and pedjas work below.
With your comment about fewer people contributing here, I highly doubt that. People will come, people will go. That's the nature of a forum. As such, new ideas and new contributers will flow in, while others find they have better uses of their time.
Pedja said:
First off, Pedja, I want to explain that I am not personally attacking you on this. I want to be very clear that I have no problem with you, or your contributions. However, my response is to post#2 and #3 in this thread. I guess I don't understand what you mean by this in post #2:
Pedja said:
So he creates a LM338/LT1058 regulator board, and offers it up with an inverted LM3886 board. People like them and are buying them like hotcakes. Apparently feel like he owes you and the others who post on this forum something. Please explain why you or any others deserve credit or have any right to tell him not to offer his design up for sale.
Last I checked, this forum is a place to exchange ideas and help out folks who want to build various components in the audio playback chain. You are apparently complaining because someone implemented some of your ideas, along with other folks ideas, all of which are based on the national semi datasheet. Oh, and lest we forget, he's offering up a BOARD to other DIY folks who would like to try this stuff out for themselves. This seems to be pretty much in the spirit of the forum to me.
Digi, as far as I know, is not sitting in china building amps for living based on the contents of this forum. Even if he were, I would argue that:
1) His regulator board is based on the national semi design. Even if you claim he copied your schematic, yours looks identical to the one provided by national on the LM338 datasheet in Figure 3 of the Application hints. That negates any credit he would owe you on the regulator section.
2) The inverted LM3886 has been around for as long as I can remember. It was around long before there was a chipamp forum on DIY Audio. In fact, I remember when it was originally posted by thorsten on anothe forum dedicated to chipamps and cloning the 47labs gaincard. To top it all off, it's his own implementation of it!
If he owes any credit to anyone, it *might* be to thorsten/Kuei Yang Wang for the inversion of the 3886, and to national semi for the LM338 regulator and the original 3886 typical application schematic. Regulating an amplifier is nothing new. I don't know why folks think that applying a regulator to an amplifier based around a chip is groundshaking work.
Thats not the point.
If he can makle a living from selling us cheap boards, thats ok. Everone is free to do so. BUT:
Every commercial activity has to stay in the commercial forum of this board.
people with no interest in this community but the commercial threads they started, should stay out of the non - commercial fora, and don´t spam them with marketing postings. like per anders did.
The last they should do is beat other posters down because they fear competitors or someone critizices their product.
The ones who are whining but refuse to read the posting of pedja, carlos, me... long enough to understand the content are people like you. per anders: if one made a board for his design his not the hub of the world. You are a human beeing also without making a PCB out of every idea you have. Maybe more human than one who has no intersts but PCB making and no ideas...
We, the moderators, decide when activities go from group buy, pizza money, hobby etc to serious and real commercical business.till said:
not human and no ideas... hm...I'll guess you won't join my fan club today... no?till said:
😉till said:
This is my cruzade.
This is exactly my point, very well said.
Another thing: if the forum is responsible for what the members post, instead of who posts, this is very nice.
Can I say what goes on in my mind now?😀
You can´t, because you are biased. The other moderators seem to prefer removing links like this [Link Removed] because they consider it amoral in the amerikan cristian worldview or so, instead of watching the commercialism in this board is limited to the commercial forum. In short : With you as a moderator they set a fox to keep the geese. The other mods also don´t do their job as they should. They censor whom they dislike, and look away at their friends.
fan club for sure not. I estimate you abilitys as a PCB designer and board design fetishits. But a moderator who publishes a guide to do sucessfull commerce on a discussion board has to expect some critics.
You mods are just ridicolous, removing that link. you could at least give a note you edited my posting. for thos who are interested: the link can still be found in texas forum:
(link removed)
(link removed)
per anders, do you edit my posting in consens with the other moderators, or is this a personal attack because you dislike me?
What is the point in removing a link to another posting IN THIS BOARD???
anyone else who considers this an abuse of moderators power?
What is the point in removing a link to another posting IN THIS BOARD???
anyone else who considers this an abuse of moderators power?
When posts are removed because of inappropriate content for a forum intended for people of all ages and cultural norms, do not try to repost them through the subterfuge of a link. Any further breach of this will result in SinBin.
a) the content can still be found in a forum of this board, so it cvan´t be criminal.
b) is you forbidd to link to texas, you prohibit memebers discussion about moderators action. that a totalitary system, critics and dicussion not allowed. If you stand behind this system, resign as a moderator. you are not suitable for that job.
c) per anders, what was that infamy i have just seen in this thread, and now it dissappeared?
b) is you forbidd to link to texas, you prohibit memebers discussion about moderators action. that a totalitary system, critics and dicussion not allowed. If you stand behind this system, resign as a moderator. you are not suitable for that job.
c) per anders, what was that infamy i have just seen in this thread, and now it dissappeared?
Forbidden link
I have asked Till to send me the text of the deleted post so that I can judge for myself if the content is inappropiate.
Thanks.
ELSO
I have asked Till to send me the text of the deleted post so that I can judge for myself if the content is inappropiate.
Thanks.
ELSO
Re: Forbidden link
And now, Elso?? Did you check?? Blush of shame in your face, eh!?😀 😀
I ask the moderators in action here to take a time out (well, kind of sin bin). I know it happens that someone defends some of it's own decisions, even after it is obvious to him too that it was not appropriate. It happens to me, it happens to very many pople. You'll see that with many executives etc.
A day or so of cooling down helps, and admitting an overreaction doesn't undermine it's authority.
Why the proposal from jeff mai http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=517314#post517314
is not discussed further??
Why a GROUPBUY shouldn't be done in this manner? In a groupbuy usually several members add ideas etc. to a layout, schematic etc. So if someone is kind enough to do the work (i.e. creating layout prints, gerber files, etc.) and has no commercial interests , he will comply with the proposal.
Anyone who refuses that, has commercial interests, and may sell those items elsewhere.
Just my two cents.
Ciao, Tino
Elso Kwak said:
I have asked Till to send me the text of the deleted post so that I can judge for myself if the content is inappropiate.
Thanks.
ELSO
And now, Elso?? Did you check?? Blush of shame in your face, eh!?😀 😀
I ask the moderators in action here to take a time out (well, kind of sin bin). I know it happens that someone defends some of it's own decisions, even after it is obvious to him too that it was not appropriate. It happens to me, it happens to very many pople. You'll see that with many executives etc.
A day or so of cooling down helps, and admitting an overreaction doesn't undermine it's authority.
Why the proposal from jeff mai http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=517314#post517314
is not discussed further??
Why a GROUPBUY shouldn't be done in this manner? In a groupbuy usually several members add ideas etc. to a layout, schematic etc. So if someone is kind enough to do the work (i.e. creating layout prints, gerber files, etc.) and has no commercial interests , he will comply with the proposal.
Anyone who refuses that, has commercial interests, and may sell those items elsewhere.
Just my two cents.
Ciao, Tino
Re: As I see it
Hi, I now understand Till was linking to that that "semi-porn" pictures made up of electronic parts (resistors, caps, LEDs). Not too funny BTW.
I can conclude that the Moderators are far more sensitive to even faintly pornographic material than to commercial activities on the forum. So much for their hidden agenda. I still wonder why they allowed my picture of Elsa. [No, no, I will not link 🙂]
But what is allowed and what not? I remember even a moderator was once linking to Texas with a text like "You can still find it here". Which forum rule is broken? Since when is linking to a post in Texas forbidden?
I feel the main problem is caused by Jason the founder of this cosy forum as he "forgot" to lay down firm rules. Now it is faaaar too late to correct the situation. Jason made a capital blunder not having made strict rules BEFORE everything has gone out of hand.
😎
Elso Kwak said:
I have asked Till to send me the text of the deleted post so that I can judge for myself if the content is inappropiate.
Thanks.
ELSO
Hi, I now understand Till was linking to that that "semi-porn" pictures made up of electronic parts (resistors, caps, LEDs). Not too funny BTW.
I can conclude that the Moderators are far more sensitive to even faintly pornographic material than to commercial activities on the forum. So much for their hidden agenda. I still wonder why they allowed my picture of Elsa. [No, no, I will not link 🙂]
But what is allowed and what not? I remember even a moderator was once linking to Texas with a text like "You can still find it here". Which forum rule is broken? Since when is linking to a post in Texas forbidden?
I feel the main problem is caused by Jason the founder of this cosy forum as he "forgot" to lay down firm rules. Now it is faaaar too late to correct the situation. Jason made a capital blunder not having made strict rules BEFORE everything has gone out of hand.
😎
Re: Re: As I see it
Oooooohhhhhh...
I find those pics so funny...😎
Sex with resistors, caps and LEDs is not allowed here.
Elsa is not a resistor.😀
Elso Kwak said:
Oooooohhhhhh...
I find those pics so funny...😎
Elso Kwak said:
Sex with resistors, caps and LEDs is not allowed here.
Elsa is not a resistor.😀
Re: Correction
Hi Carlos, You have to correct your post, as I did, as she is called Elsa.
I will not discuss your sense of humour.......😉
carlosfm said:
Oooooohhhhhh...
I find those pics so funny...😎
Sex with resistors, caps and LEDs is not allowed here.
Ella is not a resistor.😀
Hi Carlos, You have to correct your post, as I did, as she is called Elsa.
I will not discuss your sense of humour.......😉
You guys must have a lot of free time to spend.
This is leading us far beyond any reasonable discussion and is completely off-topic.
I F r e n d l y ask everybody to cool down and take a break.
I would hate to close the thread.
Dig up that iron, resistors and caps, solder yourself a nice erotic monument and be happy for the time being.
Tip: don’t use silver solder 🙂
/Hugo
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