I honestly wasn't implying anything. I felt that a statement along those lines may have satisfied Pedja and made everybody aware of the ethics involved in this sort of situation. Simple as that!
Does a friendly reminder like that need arbitration or policing? I sincerely hope not!
Nuuk said:
Surely you're joking.
The mods may not intend to police the issue when making such a statement, but someone WILL complain and ask them to take action. If you draw a line in the sand you have to expect someone will cross it.
There isn't any point in me continuing to debate. I've pointed out that there are practical reasons for the mods not to involve themselves in disputes like these, at least not formally.
I'd still like to see the guidelines I proposed earlier in the thread adopted for group buys. This would make it a little more difficult for those involved to be accused of profitting from the group buy.
Hi SY,SY said:
Thanks for the nice offer, but for me there is enough understanding of the problem from your side.
What amazes me is the idea of diyAudio having the right to authorize third parties to use ideas posted here. I don’t think this have much with you.
Pedja
I hope that at least this discussion is useful for something.
For this particular situation and for the future.
Order, gentlemen.
Respect, courtesy, fair play.
For this particular situation and for the future.
Order, gentlemen.
Respect, courtesy, fair play.
Are we still discussing about a chinese guy selling 20 PCB's for 4$ ea?
Now we only need the justice dpt, FBI and CIA to enter in this international conflict 😀
Now we only need the justice dpt, FBI and CIA to enter in this international conflict 😀
Lars, I'm warning you...
I'm copying your clock.
Gonna sell PCBs for 50 cents.😀
Is it ok?🙄
Forget it, I've sold 250 of them.
I'm copying your clock.
Gonna sell PCBs for 50 cents.😀
Is it ok?🙄
Forget it, I've sold 250 of them.
hmmm... price no matter... morals matter...Lars Clausen said:
we should have lived a 100 years ago 😉
(tot ma minunez cine scrie 😉 )
You decide.joensd said:
It was told it is about 20 pieces, I've just made correction since this is the matter of fact. Why one would say 20?
Lars Clausen said:
When the "chinese located IP address member" you never know he really is Chinese though so I would not say the chinese guy here!; he/she first started the groupbuy I was a bit surprised that out of the blue he/she came. May be I didn't not follow all threads or I have just missed his/her involvements with the PSU threads. At least I did not see where he/she implied or expressed in any fashion giving credit/acknowledgement to anyone at all.
I personally love the groupbuys but ruthlessness tactics I do not need to deal with here. I deal with enough of that everyday! I don't care how cheap and how good the boards are it is just a hobby for me anyway. I agree that there is something diyAudio need to address here as we treasure ethic so much.
From a Electronic Newbie but nonetheless
The Butcher😀
History
Digi opened a thread asking help for the regulated PSU layout.
He has done the same with the LM3886 PCB.
Pedja helped him, and so did I.
But Pedja stated, on that thread, the conditions, if he was to sell the boards, when it started to become obvious.
Pedja has posted the link here.
I got out of that thread, because it smelled.
Digi thanked for the help and fast started selling the boards.
20 at first (10 sets), Pedja's condition.
It's now 260 and going strong.
Not a single e-mail asking permission to sell more.
Not a single e-mail for the one who created the original schematic and helped him with the layout.
Gentleman, I was educated in a different way.
For those who understand...
chris ma said:
Digi opened a thread asking help for the regulated PSU layout.
He has done the same with the LM3886 PCB.
Pedja helped him, and so did I.
But Pedja stated, on that thread, the conditions, if he was to sell the boards, when it started to become obvious.
Pedja has posted the link here.
I got out of that thread, because it smelled.
Digi thanked for the help and fast started selling the boards.
20 at first (10 sets), Pedja's condition.
It's now 260 and going strong.
Not a single e-mail asking permission to sell more.
Not a single e-mail for the one who created the original schematic and helped him with the layout.
Gentleman, I was educated in a different way.
For those who understand...
chris ma said:
Yes you would need to go back through the treads. You would see that it started as a sell off of 20, these were quickly gone and people asked if they could get some, a wiki page was created to capture demand and a lot of people have needs for boards.
One thing lost in all this is that the parts list digi01 actually put up does not implement carlosfm's recommendations. Heck the board is not specifically designed for the Mur860 (although you can bend leads etc to make it work. The PCB for the chip itself is not made to implement carlosfm's recommendations directly. It doesdoes have the right holes to implement carlofm'd output resistor recommendation directly, or his Zobel recommendation on board. A modder can make it work, but it was not designed directly to implement carlosfm recommendations. Are there any other unique IGC aspects? Nor does the PSU board have a place for the two 4700uF caps that CarlosFM recommended.
So yes you can use the boards to implement a lot of IGC part value choices with various adaptions (holes to accomodate more than one reg. package etc.), but it is not a direct layout to implement CarlosFMs recommended values. Same goes for the PSU board. There was even interest from folks wanting to apply it to class A.
Perhaps some folks will feel bad if any PSU or IGC boards go to DIYers in a group buy without a long list of communication and notes about who made what comment or contribution in history.
I still have not heard what anybody actually thinks they lost. Although some clearly feel slighted.
moving_electron said:
The original design is from Pedja, don't put my schematic in the middle.
Read my post above.
The final result
The sad thing about all this is that it might eventually lead to closing down the diyforums.
The reason I say this is because all the experienced members, (carlosfm, pedja, PD, brian, etc.) they will stop giving opinions and suggestions, worried that people will try and benefit from them financially.
So all the diy newbies, like me 😀, will end up suffering.
At the end of the day we can argue endlessly about this issue, however I beleive all of us should be familiar with and practice Engineering Ethics.
All I say is RESPECT for YOUR DIY COLEAGUES!!!
The sad thing about all this is that it might eventually lead to closing down the diyforums.
The reason I say this is because all the experienced members, (carlosfm, pedja, PD, brian, etc.) they will stop giving opinions and suggestions, worried that people will try and benefit from them financially.
So all the diy newbies, like me 😀, will end up suffering.
At the end of the day we can argue endlessly about this issue, however I beleive all of us should be familiar with and practice Engineering Ethics.
All I say is RESPECT for YOUR DIY COLEAGUES!!!
Pedja said:
I just finished reading this thread from start to finish and here's my perspective on it. First off, I don't know how Digi's regulator board is stepping on any toes. The schematic is pretty much from Figure 3 on the typical application notes from National Semi, but it does not contain D2, adds a discrete diode bridge and a 10,000 uF capacitor. Obviously all this stuff is revolutionary, and certain persons must be given credit for coming up with a regulator board with all these earth-shattering, ground-breaking features. (Note: for those of you not well versed in english, this is toned with a healthy dose of sarcasm).
Digi made a generic regulator board, along with an inverted 3886 amp board. The 3886 amp board has been discussed on so many forums I can't even calculate the number of posts regarding them, so his implementation to me is completely legitimate. Second, the regulator board is a *GENERIC REGULATOR BOARD*. Regardless of what design ideas you may think he's stolen from anyone in particular, I highly doubt that any of these ideas are all that new.
This whole thread to me is a waste of time. You have a guy in China doing a service to the DIY community. He has contributed a ton of threads, and actually took the time to build and sell some DIRT CHEAP PCB's to help the DIY community. If digi is making money off this, I would be highly impressed, especially considering the prices for the PCB's in other group buys.
In fact, to me, this whole thread makes me sick. You are posting on a public forum to exchange ideas. If someone implements *SOME* of your ideas, you can't come back and cry foul because he didn't give you credit. Lump that on top of the fact that most of these ideas can be seen elsewhere in hundreds if not thousands of other designs.
Now, as for the crack made earlier about someone ordering 50 of the regulator PCB's: I purchased *24* of them. Yes, *24*. Why? I have a number of items, from headphone amplifiers to small electronics projects that have been BEGGING for a nice, customizable regulator board like this. I plan to try out 4 of them with a BrianGT LM4780 board. I also want to try some with the 8 3886 boards I bought from Digi. Oh, and i have some LM3875 boards from BrianGT as well. Then there's my 3 different headphone amps, 3 sonic impact amplifiers, and so on. And I plan to purchase more of them. They're handy things to have around when you want to build a nice, clean-looking regulator quickly without having it look like a piece of vero-board crap (this is not to say vero board designs can't look pretty, but rather that mine always look like crap).
Why are people complaining about someone who implements aspects of someone's design onto a PCBoard?This forum to me is very much a learning environment. If you took something you learned in school and applied it to a commercial endeavor, should your school be able to come back and sue you (Plug in engineering, math, writing, whatever).
Why do people complain about folks like BrianGT, Peter, Per-anders and Digi? These guys all offer something that makes it easy to try out a new design/different design, and pretty much guarantee that it will work on the first go. They're a godsend for someone like me who isn't confident in their design skills. Better still, you can put them in a nice box and still have something that looks fairly professional, even though You (You know, the Y in DIY) put it all together. I highly doubt that these guys are making much more than beer money on their projects, and it's even more doubtful that they'll ever recoup the money that the time they've put into it is worth. Yet all you people do is sit here and complain about it.
So I'll take it one step further -- if you don't want to see your ideas implemented, don't share them. Or, protect through the proper means like Nelson Pass does. Otherwise I don't know why you would waste your time hanging around a place that encourages folks to share and try new things.
Carlos,
Just one correction. The thread in which I’ve stated the conditions under which would be fine to run group buy was started by another guy who wanted to have the boards for the regd supply and buffer for himself. Also, I can’t remember I’ve helped digi01 about the layout directly (please remind if you did), but I did posted suggestions in the previously mentioned thread.
At the other hand, if your point is that he has started the thread asking for help without notice he’ll be back selling the result, you got the point.
Pedja
Just one correction. The thread in which I’ve stated the conditions under which would be fine to run group buy was started by another guy who wanted to have the boards for the regd supply and buffer for himself. Also, I can’t remember I’ve helped digi01 about the layout directly (please remind if you did), but I did posted suggestions in the previously mentioned thread.
At the other hand, if your point is that he has started the thread asking for help without notice he’ll be back selling the result, you got the point.
Pedja
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