Hello all.
I am looking for a DIY speaker kit. Maybe someone of you has an idea with DIY kit could fit to the following requirements.
1. Music: mainly Jazz, chamber Music, Old Music (Bach, Handel etc), Vocals, sometimes big orchestral music. some Rock and Pop
2. Smallish room (12. sqm, 3x4 meteres),
3. Near and mid-field listening, 2 meters (sometimes 1,5 meters, sometimes 2,5 meters)
3. listening mainly medium or lower volume level
4. Ideally 89db or a bit more. not difficult to drive
5. I prefer 3-ways systems
Thank you.
Christian
I am looking for a DIY speaker kit. Maybe someone of you has an idea with DIY kit could fit to the following requirements.
1. Music: mainly Jazz, chamber Music, Old Music (Bach, Handel etc), Vocals, sometimes big orchestral music. some Rock and Pop
2. Smallish room (12. sqm, 3x4 meteres),
3. Near and mid-field listening, 2 meters (sometimes 1,5 meters, sometimes 2,5 meters)
3. listening mainly medium or lower volume level
4. Ideally 89db or a bit more. not difficult to drive
5. I prefer 3-ways systems
Thank you.
Christian
For against the wall:
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/BOOKSHELF-3WC.htm
If you can place your speakers into the room:
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Faital-3WC-10.htm
Dan
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/BOOKSHELF-3WC.htm
If you can place your speakers into the room:
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Faital-3WC-10.htm
Dan
For sitting that close I prefer a full range Visaton BG17-8 in a 3.5 L box. www.visaton.de/en/products/drivers/fullrange-systems/bg-17-8-ohm The driver is on the 20x20 cm end, the 2.5x2.5 cm port is on the back. BG17 does not do much below 120 hz or above 10000 hz, so a sub box could be useful. My hearing stops at 14000 hz. If your hearing is better a couple of 2 cm dome tweeters could help 10000-20000 hz. That makes it a 3 way. Sub crossover is a commercial appliance, Nady, Rane, Peavey, which both merges the 2 channels low frequencies for the sub and provides a floor filter to avoid cone damage from 10 hz footsteps on wood floor, etc.
BG17 sensitivity is ~93 db 120-8000 hz, 90 db 8000-10000 hz.
I use this in my TV room. No problem with sound having two sources 1 m from box.
I have a 75 w amp but 35 would work in a small room. I listen to base level 1/4 watt mostly.
BG17 sensitivity is ~93 db 120-8000 hz, 90 db 8000-10000 hz.
I use this in my TV room. No problem with sound having two sources 1 m from box.
I have a 75 w amp but 35 would work in a small room. I listen to base level 1/4 watt mostly.
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Thank you for your answer.
- Placement into the room is not a problem, because it is my "Man Cave" and I can do what I want. No design award to win here. Also the design of the speaker itself doesn't matter. It can look like a fridge, no issue.
- The only thing is that the listening distance needs to be around 2 meters. 3 meters is to long.
- The distance between the two speakers is also limited. 2 meters from the center of the drivers work.
- And I am looking for a speaker to listen to Jazz and classical Music. I rareley listen to Rock and Pop.
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I did some full-range DIY kits in the past. I liked them, but with the fullrange I always had some drawbacks. When the music gets to complex the fullrange driver gets in trouble., I prerfer a 3-way design with one dedicated driver for the mids.
In terms of budget I planned currentyl around 1,000 - 1,500 Euros for the DIY kit (drivers, XO-parts, all other parts which are necassary.) plus VAT with out the enclosure. Woodworking is not an issue, the enclosure comes on top of the 1,500 Euros, of course.
I've found a speaker which could fit very well to your requirements. The Zaurak, sounds very natural and yet precise, goes very deep, very linear and excellent stage image.
The same direction, even better in linearity and homogenity is the Brachium, which I'd personally prefer and the sealed enclosure works better in smaller rooms in my experience. Both are within your price range and requirements, easy to drive, very low impedance fluctuation, 90dB/91dB spl.
The same direction, even better in linearity and homogenity is the Brachium, which I'd personally prefer and the sealed enclosure works better in smaller rooms in my experience. Both are within your price range and requirements, easy to drive, very low impedance fluctuation, 90dB/91dB spl.
My "bedroom" system resides in a room almost the exact same size as your's. Listening distance, also about 2 meters (6 feet). Jazz and classical, a bit of everything else. 70-75 db levels (with 85-90 db peaks, at most). Room is quiet. Runs around 25-28 db background noise at night, and most of that is a weird peak at about 17KHz.
I currently use highly modified Klipsch RP 600M II speakers, but will be building something D.I.Y. once I get other projects completed. Will, probably end up with several speakers to rotate into the system as mood / music command. My speakers are close to the wall, so I really like the design of the 3WC linked above.
I would look for a speaker system with close driver-to-driver spacing, to help with the "blending" of the drivers at the close listening distance. I always hate hearing "highs from this part of the baffle and the lows / lower mids. from another" effect.
You have a healthy budget. Good luck in your quest!
Dan
I currently use highly modified Klipsch RP 600M II speakers, but will be building something D.I.Y. once I get other projects completed. Will, probably end up with several speakers to rotate into the system as mood / music command. My speakers are close to the wall, so I really like the design of the 3WC linked above.
I would look for a speaker system with close driver-to-driver spacing, to help with the "blending" of the drivers at the close listening distance. I always hate hearing "highs from this part of the baffle and the lows / lower mids. from another" effect.
You have a healthy budget. Good luck in your quest!
Dan
I see it the same way, I hate it if the melody or voice goes up from bottom to mid to the tweeter in height. It sounds very inhomogenous and for me it's already out of discussion but it gets even worse for me if you can hear the drivers 'separately'. Really expensive drivers don't prevent that, it's the concept of the speaker and depends extremely on the crossover. The distance between the woofers is not an issue if they are xo'd low, if they are higher xo'd then it gets more difficult and mid/high is critical.
Whatever you consider, see if it's been widely built and has a good number of reviews so you can get an idea of the sound. Also look at projects by well regarded and successful designers who might have a 'house sound' which could suit your listening preferences.
Not sure to which brands you have access in your country.
With your very healthy budget, you don't want to spend it on something you don't like. Here are a few ideas:
https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/bookshelf-speakers/carrera
https://www.speakerdesignworks.com/invictus
Also, Troels Gravesen's designs are well worth an optic, for example:
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Discovery-18W-mkII.htm
Will you be using a sub?
Geoff
Not sure to which brands you have access in your country.
With your very healthy budget, you don't want to spend it on something you don't like. Here are a few ideas:
https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/bookshelf-speakers/carrera
https://www.speakerdesignworks.com/invictus
Also, Troels Gravesen's designs are well worth an optic, for example:
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Discovery-18W-mkII.htm
Will you be using a sub?
Geoff
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Just dumping expensive drivers and expensives XO components in a speaker enclosure don't guarantee a good result.
Of course, everybody like the top of the notch drivers from Scan Speak, Seas etc.
What do you with a low XO-frequency between the bass woofers and the mid woofers? Should it between 100 and 400 Hz. Or is 400 already to high?
Hi Geoff.
I am jumping currently between Germany and Portugal. Living in PT and going to my Good old Germany for a business trip once a month.
I would prefer to have the possibilty to listen to some designs before buying. In Germany there are possibilities to do so. In Spain and Portugal the DIY scene is very small. Yes, I will try to listen to some designs every time when I am in Germany.
And yes, each designer has a kind of house sound. If you found your "house sound" you can focus of the design of one or a view designers.
Thx. Christian
Absolutely: there are many cheaper designs which could suit your purpose. Most of our speakers are modestly priced, with only our 'reference' MTM speakers costing over A$800 in drivers and crossover parts.
Research, research, research!
Something with Peerless HDS or the SB Acoustics drivers could work very well for you. We listen to around 40% classical, 40%pop/rock and 20% jazz, so I understand your requirements.
Our messages crossed: certainly, if you can listen to some options that will be ideal.
Geoff
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It does
It does as long as you are roughly on ear level with the tweeter, the shorter the distance, the more important the ear level is. But that doesn't apply just to these speakers, that's applying to ALL speakers.
That is very, no, extremely misleading! Expensive speakers are build in much smaller numbers, according to your logic you could only build (still well developed) cheap speakers since they are sold multiple times more than high level (-end) speakers. So the number of likes or ratings is very deceptive. It also only outlines in which country/area that kit is sold, you won't get any EU recommendations of Parts Express builds but - no matter how good they are or how many reviews they got - are often impossible to build in the EU. That means, the total number of reviews says nothing about how they compare to each other. The only thing that actually matters is a rating/review of reputable and known objective sources and not the numbers of votes or reviews.
To give you an example, both of the speakers I've linked, are created by one of the biggest DIY speaker shops in Germany but were also featured, measured, described in the German DIY HiFi magazine Klang + Ton. Since they aren't widespread available all over the world, you'll - of course - get less (or none) reviews from the US. Does that make them any worse? I guess you can answer that question yourself.
E: That post doesn't go against you, it's about the demographic and representation in numbers, nothing more. Again, nothing against you but you could also say sh*t is the best nourishment because 9034859 trillion flys eat it.
It does as long as you are roughly on ear level with the tweeter, the shorter the distance, the more important the ear level is. But that doesn't apply just to these speakers, that's applying to ALL speakers.
That is very, no, extremely misleading! Expensive speakers are build in much smaller numbers, according to your logic you could only build (still well developed) cheap speakers since they are sold multiple times more than high level (-end) speakers. So the number of likes or ratings is very deceptive. It also only outlines in which country/area that kit is sold, you won't get any EU recommendations of Parts Express builds but - no matter how good they are or how many reviews they got - are often impossible to build in the EU. That means, the total number of reviews says nothing about how they compare to each other. The only thing that actually matters is a rating/review of reputable and known objective sources and not the numbers of votes or reviews.
To give you an example, both of the speakers I've linked, are created by one of the biggest DIY speaker shops in Germany but were also featured, measured, described in the German DIY HiFi magazine Klang + Ton. Since they aren't widespread available all over the world, you'll - of course - get less (or none) reviews from the US. Does that make them any worse? I guess you can answer that question yourself.
E: That post doesn't go against you, it's about the demographic and representation in numbers, nothing more. Again, nothing against you but you could also say sh*t is the best nourishment because 9034859 trillion flys eat it.
Some very good 2.5 ways as well worth looking into, mostly for the good bass and small footprint.
Yes, absolutely! The drivers from Seas, SS etc are ofc very good but they are only as good as you use them. The crossover does more about the sound than the drivers itself. A very well developed speaker with mid-tier drivers can actually sound a lot better than top end of the line without good developed crossover and use. And good measurements can be achieved already by very cheap drivers. What's hard to capture with measurements is the homogenity and stage location, in depth and width. Even angled measurements don't do it justice. I want to emphase the fact that the measurements should not be discarded, rather the opposite. But to read out how that will sound in your room is very difficult, sometimes not even possible. Also, two speakers might be measured equally linear but the one with significantly more cone surface in the lower mids or bass will have much more authority. The magnitude of it can't be directly put in a measurement value.
I don't want to convince you to any of the mentioned kits, I don't earn any money from it nor do I have a personal argenda. The kits Troels built are surely good but only you can decide if that's the right speaker for you or if something else might be better.
100 Hz is very low for a woofer to XO, that's sub/sat territory. 250-400 is low, 500-700 is medium-high and above that is high - but that also depends on the size of the drivers, ie a cone mid driver is usually xo'd at roughly 500Hz while most dome mids start to work nicely above 800Hz. That means, it's highly dependent on the driver and its size. The downside of low XO'd cone drivers is they are beaming quite narrowly on the top and the downside of dome mids is the distortion because of the limited excursion. It depends on the concept of the speaker if it's considered 'low' ... 'high' and the drivers.
"E: That post doesn't go against you, it's about the demographic and representation in numbers, nothing more. Again, nothing against you but you could also say sh*t is the best nourishment because 9034859 trillion flys eat it"
That's not what I mean.
With few exceptions, you can't audition DIY speakers. If you're looking around, how else do you decide what might suit your requirements? If I'm going to spend many $$ and hours of labour, I'd want to at least get some idea of whether people like a project or not.
Geoff
That's not what I mean.
With few exceptions, you can't audition DIY speakers. If you're looking around, how else do you decide what might suit your requirements? If I'm going to spend many $$ and hours of labour, I'd want to at least get some idea of whether people like a project or not.
Geoff