I'll bring a 20" pair of stands for my heavy 3-ways, and also a 24" pair for smaller bookshelf speakers.
Just a week (and a day) away from Oct. 5th. It's been 6 years since our last contest. Hope to see and hear some new diy creations.
I hope we get some more people coming. I am working I get a pair of speakers completed in time. I blew the dust off the 3D printers and they are humming along making front / rear baffles. Fourteen hours for each segment. One done, three to go. Hopefully the cabinet will get competed this weekend. It's going to be a challenge getting a crossover designed and built next week.
Me too.
Just a reminder that you don't have to be a club member to enter.
(see original post for contest details)
Hey Byron,
You can just show up. Even if you are a bit late, it should work out fine. I would guess that the judging will go on for about 2 hours---just a guess. Best to be on time, but if you are coming from Portland, we know there can be unplanned delays.
Curb-parallel street parking that gets you closest to the door is on the North side of 5th AVE, which runs East-West, pretty close to 1st Street. If your speakers are small and easy to carry, the church parking lot on 5th Ave is best, as it leaves the loading area open for others.
You can just show up. Even if you are a bit late, it should work out fine. I would guess that the judging will go on for about 2 hours---just a guess. Best to be on time, but if you are coming from Portland, we know there can be unplanned delays.
Curb-parallel street parking that gets you closest to the door is on the North side of 5th AVE, which runs East-West, pretty close to 1st Street. If your speakers are small and easy to carry, the church parking lot on 5th Ave is best, as it leaves the loading area open for others.
@ByronInPortland
I'll be bringing a hand cart that can be usee to bring your speakers in from your car.
I'll be bringing a hand cart that can be usee to bring your speakers in from your car.
The nice thing about these passive crossovers is the expense and the "simplicity". When you don't have the value needed, just connect two or three other parts together. I'm about half way through assembly for the first speaker. Maybe next time we have a category for people building with multichannel plate amps with DSP crossovers.
Do I detect a hint of frustrated snark-ism?
In future years:
I think that we could specify a certain standard connection for the line level inputs for active speakers, such as RCA, or XLR. The standard line level connections would be run in place of speaker cables. Also two extension cords would need to be provided for left and right channels.
Each active speaker would need to be self contained, with no extra amps, cables etc to haul in and set up; just simple plug and play.
All the active speaker entries could be run in sequence, so that only a one-time change would need to be made in the playback system.
When tallying the results, the active entries would be separated into their own category. They would compete against each other, not against the passive systems. We would need to decide if "best in show" would continue as the single top "prize". Would there be two "best", active and passive, or would best in show be reserved for passive only?
It is so much easier to make extended, strong, bass with line level DSP EQ, that it would negate the chances of most of the passive entries, if the two types were made to compete.
In future years:
I think that we could specify a certain standard connection for the line level inputs for active speakers, such as RCA, or XLR. The standard line level connections would be run in place of speaker cables. Also two extension cords would need to be provided for left and right channels.
Each active speaker would need to be self contained, with no extra amps, cables etc to haul in and set up; just simple plug and play.
All the active speaker entries could be run in sequence, so that only a one-time change would need to be made in the playback system.
When tallying the results, the active entries would be separated into their own category. They would compete against each other, not against the passive systems. We would need to decide if "best in show" would continue as the single top "prize". Would there be two "best", active and passive, or would best in show be reserved for passive only?
It is so much easier to make extended, strong, bass with line level DSP EQ, that it would negate the chances of most of the passive entries, if the two types were made to compete.
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If you allow active speaker, may I add something?
One of the things making active speaker a little problematic for DIYS is the integration of the amp inside the speaker cabinet. You never know what kind of a DIYS desaster is waiting to happen inside a wooden, absorbend filled box. For DIYS it may be much better to have a central DSP/ amp case, made from metal with safety ground connected. This makes things safer for electric, EMI and fire reasons.
Running two instead of one pair of speaker cables to the cabinets is a small inconvenience. I use Speakon connectors and 4-strand speaker cables for 2-ways, so this isn't even visible.
One of the things making active speaker a little problematic for DIYS is the integration of the amp inside the speaker cabinet. You never know what kind of a DIYS desaster is waiting to happen inside a wooden, absorbend filled box. For DIYS it may be much better to have a central DSP/ amp case, made from metal with safety ground connected. This makes things safer for electric, EMI and fire reasons.
Running two instead of one pair of speaker cables to the cabinets is a small inconvenience. I use Speakon connectors and 4-strand speaker cables for 2-ways, so this isn't even visible.
With so many tiny class D amplifiers available it is easy to pair them with a miniDSP or other digital crossover and hang the thing on the back of a cabinet. The Hypex Fusion plate amplifiers solve all the problems mentioned as they contain everything required and can simply mount on the back of any cabinet. With so many solutions from miniDSP and now Parts Express its easier by far to build an active speaker with these products than any passive design.
My “plug and play” comments were designed around making speaker switch-outs as painless and quick as possible. This puts the work of streamlining the process on the builder, rather than the contest staff, who have to make multiple speaker change-outs quickly. Of course this makes these builds less of experimental prototypes, and more like finished products, which may be more agreeable to some folks, and less to others.
If the electronics were in one box, which could function as stands, and the drivers were in another, and they quickly plugged together, then this seems like it could work as well as larger stacked passive systems.
If the electronics were in one box, which could function as stands, and the drivers were in another, and they quickly plugged together, then this seems like it could work as well as larger stacked passive systems.
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This would allow folks who don't already have crossover design skills, and those who would rather not take the time to work out a complicated crossover, to make a nice sounding speaker. I think that these are also reasons that active and passive should not directly compete for the same prize/award.
DaveR helped me with my first couple of multi-way passive builds, because I did not know how to make a crossover myself. I like making them now; but others (including some who are quite passive crossover capable) would just prefer to make and own active speakers.
I think active solutions can be very good. I've heard a few! 🙂
The contest was set up to make as level a playing field as possible. One of the constraints was that each entry is powered by the same amplifier.
Active speakers really need to be in their own category or contest, and not compete with passive entries. Maybe for future a separate event can be set up to include active speakers, or field coil, or open to anything.
Passive crossovers can be difficult (and more costly lately!) for sure. But I guess designing them is really a big part of the competition. 😉
The contest was set up to make as level a playing field as possible. One of the constraints was that each entry is powered by the same amplifier.
Active speakers really need to be in their own category or contest, and not compete with passive entries. Maybe for future a separate event can be set up to include active speakers, or field coil, or open to anything.
Passive crossovers can be difficult (and more costly lately!) for sure. But I guess designing them is really a big part of the competition. 😉
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If the main focus of an event is on passive speaker design, you are already starting a vintage fan club.
The active, DSP controlled and corrected, active speaker is the reality of today, not something beamed down from space craft Enterprise in the next century.
The active, DSP controlled and corrected, active speaker is the reality of today, not something beamed down from space craft Enterprise in the next century.
I don't know why a lot of people think this. Passive xovers allow plug and play, and you don't have to turn on 5 devices to make them work. Passives are not antiquated, and still can sound just as good as active/DSP without all of the extra gear- if properly designed.
This contest has been held for 20 to 30 years. The plug and play aspect is valid today and likely in the foeseeable future.
It seems that active and passive systems have their own characteristic design/build challenges. One is not better across the board; but they probably cannot be judged fairly against each other.
An aspect that is perhaps more challenging for passive than for active designs, is that of achieving strong bass response, especially in home-friendly sized cabinets.This “fact” is a plus for some active constructions; which mainly seem to be commercial ones that have made the effort to include the customized DSP/amps inside the cabinets.
One thing that may be easier about experimental active systems, is that with enough amplifier channels and steep crossover slopes, there is more freedom to mix and match drivers that might otherwise be problematic with passive designs. So,this shows up one of the challenges with passive designs, which is that driver selection needs to be a careful, often time consuming,process.
In the long-run I think that it is important to invite active systems into our appreciations. Ignoring other positives, just the fact that small speakers that can make big sound, from digital sources, without the need for large audiophile-type setups, are naturally useful for younger households and smaller homes without dedicated listening rooms. I am not sure how many small/affordable DSP/amp units are available for DIY builds at this time. As mentioned above, Parts Express is probably the place to look in North America.
Our DIY group, whom are the enthusiastic members behind this contest (separate from the PNWAS club, but sharing many members), already entertain active speaker builds that members bring to share. The PNWAS club is, most of the time, not a DIY venue.
An aspect that is perhaps more challenging for passive than for active designs, is that of achieving strong bass response, especially in home-friendly sized cabinets.This “fact” is a plus for some active constructions; which mainly seem to be commercial ones that have made the effort to include the customized DSP/amps inside the cabinets.
One thing that may be easier about experimental active systems, is that with enough amplifier channels and steep crossover slopes, there is more freedom to mix and match drivers that might otherwise be problematic with passive designs. So,this shows up one of the challenges with passive designs, which is that driver selection needs to be a careful, often time consuming,process.
In the long-run I think that it is important to invite active systems into our appreciations. Ignoring other positives, just the fact that small speakers that can make big sound, from digital sources, without the need for large audiophile-type setups, are naturally useful for younger households and smaller homes without dedicated listening rooms. I am not sure how many small/affordable DSP/amp units are available for DIY builds at this time. As mentioned above, Parts Express is probably the place to look in North America.
Our DIY group, whom are the enthusiastic members behind this contest (separate from the PNWAS club, but sharing many members), already entertain active speaker builds that members bring to share. The PNWAS club is, most of the time, not a DIY venue.