If I wanted to put together a really good sound system today I wouldn't even think about vinyl - a good current deck today, ditto tone arm, ditto cartridge, phono stage is going to cost serious money nd then there's the setting up - huge amount 0f patience and time.
I was lucky living somewhere that has always had lots of music venues and a Uni and art college renowned for it's great gigs where music was a no. 1 interest for most young people and a lot of older people really into the classic music scene.
So, when CD came along they dumped huge amounts of vinyl, mainly via car boots from the late 80s' into the 90s'. All you had to do was get off your **** really early on Saturday and Sunday mornings. I must have bought around 700-800 LPs that way. I only remember paying £2 for classical box sets and the occasional ECM Jazz, otherwise it was 50p - £1 per LP.
What I always found strange was the classical crowd were the first to dump vinyl because it was always made from virgin vinyl. I remember buying a Philips CD63 with a broken lid for £15 (around 91) and taking it to Mike Pointer at his amazing shop (BR shed)- Station Sounds on the west bound platform of Worthing Central station where he exchanged it for a mint Marantz version, he had total contempt for CD. Mike taught the Dane Quordrop everything he knew about valve technology. He had racks full of classic British amps and a constant flow of buyers from all over Europe - those were the days before everything ramped up in price.
If your young go digital, it's as simple as that. What the young can't do is to see the best bands for next to nothing. Imagine going to the Stones second gig and afterwards talking to Mick and Keith - it's all money and minders who keep you away from the musicians - so it goes.
I was lucky living somewhere that has always had lots of music venues and a Uni and art college renowned for it's great gigs where music was a no. 1 interest for most young people and a lot of older people really into the classic music scene.
So, when CD came along they dumped huge amounts of vinyl, mainly via car boots from the late 80s' into the 90s'. All you had to do was get off your **** really early on Saturday and Sunday mornings. I must have bought around 700-800 LPs that way. I only remember paying £2 for classical box sets and the occasional ECM Jazz, otherwise it was 50p - £1 per LP.
What I always found strange was the classical crowd were the first to dump vinyl because it was always made from virgin vinyl. I remember buying a Philips CD63 with a broken lid for £15 (around 91) and taking it to Mike Pointer at his amazing shop (BR shed)- Station Sounds on the west bound platform of Worthing Central station where he exchanged it for a mint Marantz version, he had total contempt for CD. Mike taught the Dane Quordrop everything he knew about valve technology. He had racks full of classic British amps and a constant flow of buyers from all over Europe - those were the days before everything ramped up in price.
If your young go digital, it's as simple as that. What the young can't do is to see the best bands for next to nothing. Imagine going to the Stones second gig and afterwards talking to Mick and Keith - it's all money and minders who keep you away from the musicians - so it goes.
One of my favourite go-to TV channels is NHK Japan (available in 17 languages)
Lots of very interesting programmes, one of them is about music and they featured - Mine Kawakami and her life story. She plays music that simply cannot be defined in any genre - she just makes music - would love to lose 30 years and get very close to her.
Anyway she only releases music on CD, so bought one - El Piano. These Japanese productions are superb, I'm not aware of what medium I am listening to - it's just music. Got an email today and they have a huge selection of classical releases available they are all SHM-CD.
Lots of very interesting programmes, one of them is about music and they featured - Mine Kawakami and her life story. She plays music that simply cannot be defined in any genre - she just makes music - would love to lose 30 years and get very close to her.
Anyway she only releases music on CD, so bought one - El Piano. These Japanese productions are superb, I'm not aware of what medium I am listening to - it's just music. Got an email today and they have a huge selection of classical releases available they are all SHM-CD.
I've posted about this before, but a visit to a store yesterday really made me think about LP prices.
"The Band", one of my all time favourite albums, has been re-released as a double LP (?!) with a miserable three songs on each side. And the cost: A$109.
'Are You Experienced' has been re-released as a double, with one side less than ten minutes, at a slightly less exorbitant A$98. Both albums are 33 rather than 45rpm, which could have explained the side length.
Apart from the damage, since when can an 'LP' have such short sides and maintain sound quality?
Either the groove is cut very wide, as on the original side six of the 'Concert for Bangla Desh' set or side four of 'Blonde on Blonde', or the groove is cut normal size and the LP side is half empty. In the case of 'Bangla Desh' , the sound quality is not up to that of the other sides, at least on my copy.
Geoff
"The Band", one of my all time favourite albums, has been re-released as a double LP (?!) with a miserable three songs on each side. And the cost: A$109.
'Are You Experienced' has been re-released as a double, with one side less than ten minutes, at a slightly less exorbitant A$98. Both albums are 33 rather than 45rpm, which could have explained the side length.
Apart from the damage, since when can an 'LP' have such short sides and maintain sound quality?
Either the groove is cut very wide, as on the original side six of the 'Concert for Bangla Desh' set or side four of 'Blonde on Blonde', or the groove is cut normal size and the LP side is half empty. In the case of 'Bangla Desh' , the sound quality is not up to that of the other sides, at least on my copy.
Geoff
" Both albums are 33 rather than 45rpm, which could have explained the side length."
You mean, the albums are 45..... not 33.... typo?
I got the 45RPM, two disc Dire Straits Brothers In Arm... I think I paid like 60 bucks for it, last year. Worth every penny.
You mean, the albums are 45..... not 33.... typo?
I got the 45RPM, two disc Dire Straits Brothers In Arm... I think I paid like 60 bucks for it, last year. Worth every penny.
I can't understand why anyone would buy new vinyl. We all know vinyl is a deeply flawed medium. I still have all the LPs I ever bought from cough, cough, but as pointed out by other posters, if you want them to sound good, it costs much more than the dastardly digits. I have a Garrard 301 (cost £14 second-hand in 1974) with arm and electronics I made myself. Moving coil cartridge, I had to buy. It all cost a lot more than my RME ADI-2 Pro ADC/DAC plus transport. And, as pointed out, you have to leap up and turn the LP over just as you're getting into the music. And styli wear out. And the KMAL record cleaning machine (ex-local radio) needs periodic repairs. I wouldn't go so far as Mr Preview and claim of CD that "All else is gaslight" but vinyl is certainly a very expensive way of obtaining good sound.
That's really the only reason to pay for multi-disk releases, unless the album originally came out on CD and they can't fit all the songs on one LP. Cafe Blue comes to mind. The original vinyl release is only one LP, so they had to cut a few songs from the original digital release.
jeff
LOL..
IF the album first came out in CD, run away to a desert island and learn to play the rhythm maracas in a drunk rum band of natives....
Ideally, just make sure the recording wasn't Dxx, anything mixed in the 80s in digital is gonna be suspect.
IF the album first came out in CD, run away to a desert island and learn to play the rhythm maracas in a drunk rum band of natives....
Ideally, just make sure the recording wasn't Dxx, anything mixed in the 80s in digital is gonna be suspect.
Stop whining about costs of “audiophile” vinyl re-pressings and instead research to see if current re-pressings are, in fact, high quality and worth your money (not all are).
In 1978-80, when Nautilus and Mobile Fidelity were pioneering the business of audiophile pressings as an alternative to vinyl, I recall their records cost anywhere between $15-25.
Using the Federal Reserve of Minneapolis inflation calculator, that come out to between $80 and $125 in 2025 dollars. And the mastering tapes were in way better shape back then, and arguably the vinyl they used was quite good, as compared to the junk used in regular album releases. And the Nautilus and MFSL records were real heavy, 180 gram. And MFSL were half speed mastered by Stan Ricker, who pioneered the technique. So, your vinyl costs are not unreasonable, given that vinyl is a niche product.
I had a bunch of those, which I gifted to the brother of a friend in the 1990s. Do I regret it? No way! Nor the gifting of several thousand albums to a salesman in an audiophile shop, whom I knew was a real music fiend.
I hate the talk about the “ warm analogue sound” by persons whose systems are decidedly lo or mid fi. While nearly all of the denizens of this forum do not fall in that category, I am pretty clear eyed that my digital system will not sound as good as a 25k entry level audiophile system, but I am honest about it and happy where I am.
In 1978-80, when Nautilus and Mobile Fidelity were pioneering the business of audiophile pressings as an alternative to vinyl, I recall their records cost anywhere between $15-25.
Using the Federal Reserve of Minneapolis inflation calculator, that come out to between $80 and $125 in 2025 dollars. And the mastering tapes were in way better shape back then, and arguably the vinyl they used was quite good, as compared to the junk used in regular album releases. And the Nautilus and MFSL records were real heavy, 180 gram. And MFSL were half speed mastered by Stan Ricker, who pioneered the technique. So, your vinyl costs are not unreasonable, given that vinyl is a niche product.
I had a bunch of those, which I gifted to the brother of a friend in the 1990s. Do I regret it? No way! Nor the gifting of several thousand albums to a salesman in an audiophile shop, whom I knew was a real music fiend.
I hate the talk about the “ warm analogue sound” by persons whose systems are decidedly lo or mid fi. While nearly all of the denizens of this forum do not fall in that category, I am pretty clear eyed that my digital system will not sound as good as a 25k entry level audiophile system, but I am honest about it and happy where I am.
Actually, they were only 120 grams, but high quality vinyl. Very low background noise.
I picked up a Nautilus Fleetwood Mac Rumors recently. After a quick clean, it plays beautifully.
jeff
The current ones are lighter. I recall that there was a duel over 180 gram records back then, but my memory could be wrong! Not like that hasn’t happened before.
When I was into vinyl, I wish I could have afforded a real cleaning machine, and not just the Discwasher system.
When I was into vinyl, I wish I could have afforded a real cleaning machine, and not just the Discwasher system.
That marketing nonsense wasn't started until the 90's. Even when the early 80's MoFi UHQR LP's were released, there was a huge long blurb about how flat the records were, with a unique vinyl formulation, and no mention of weight, none.
jeff
As I recall, the weight was not advertised in the original Nautilus and MFSL releases, but sometime in the early 80s, the word was going around that the weight of the records was higher. The flatness of the record also was not an original advertised point. But the dealers who sold the records all mentioned better, virgin vinyl compound, longer times in press, higher weight and flatter due to thick cardstock and better QA/QC. This was all apart from the original master tape use and the half speed mastering.
My first MFSL was Katy Lied by Steely Dan, and it was better than LP or the CD, even with the messed up dBX sound system recording. The noise floor was very low, hardly any crackle, and the flanging on Daddy Don’t Live in that New York City No More was incredible: whooshing phase in and out with frequency sweeping, esp on the high end. My latest CD remaster - one with extended notes by Fagen and Becker - does not hold a candle to that MFSL LP.
My first MFSL was Katy Lied by Steely Dan, and it was better than LP or the CD, even with the messed up dBX sound system recording. The noise floor was very low, hardly any crackle, and the flanging on Daddy Don’t Live in that New York City No More was incredible: whooshing phase in and out with frequency sweeping, esp on the high end. My latest CD remaster - one with extended notes by Fagen and Becker - does not hold a candle to that MFSL LP.
I just weighed my old MFSL Crime of the Century. It's bang on 120 grams. The old A&M release I have is almost 140 grams.
jeff
You mean the original A&M vinyl of Crime of the Century? We had that in the radio studio at original release: promo copy, of course, but it did not strike me as particularly out of the ordinary in weight. I also had the MFSL version, and that was quite the eye opener in terms of sound.
A&M stuff was good, even great for major label. My pressing of Liege and Lief was heavy, and well mastered IMO. So was the Cat Steven’s stuff, and the promo copy of Brewer and Shirley’s Down in LA (I have never seen anything other than promo copies of this album).
$25 for a current production album mastered and pressed to A&M standards would be fair price, IMO, given inflation. When I stopped buying LPs in 1985 or so, they were nearing $10-$12, as I recall, maybe more?
A&M stuff was good, even great for major label. My pressing of Liege and Lief was heavy, and well mastered IMO. So was the Cat Steven’s stuff, and the promo copy of Brewer and Shirley’s Down in LA (I have never seen anything other than promo copies of this album).
$25 for a current production album mastered and pressed to A&M standards would be fair price, IMO, given inflation. When I stopped buying LPs in 1985 or so, they were nearing $10-$12, as I recall, maybe more?
The answer is simple, for us who truly understand vinyl: radial speed at the outer radii is higher than the middle to inner portions, so fidelity is higher at outer radii. Pressing the songs only on the outer radii of the LP means every track is played in the high quality area.
If you don’t know this and can’t hear this, why are you wasting your time on vinyl much less expounding on it?
Right now I hate you guys... my Ekos 2 tonearm is broken... long story... I might be out of a TT for a month, or longer.... with my brand new Ortofon Credenza Black and the Keel, P3, P2, op amps... etc.... even splurged -further- on a set of Kimber 12TC...
Digital only.
4000 LPs... and I got a bunch of those MSFL, etc, etc... and they're paperweights, anchors actually, in my mind.
I do know that, but why do classical composers put their loudest pieces of music at the end of the LP side....most inconsiderate.
I don't play LPs any more unless they're n/a on CD and haven't bought one for over 20 years, but my point was that making a single album into a double, at a steep price, doesn't seem like value to me.
Years ago I bought a 'factory fresh' pressing of Who's Next to replace my worn out copy. The groove on both sides was cut so that they took up about two thirds of the sides, instead of almost all of it. Therefore, the loud climaxes of 'Song is Over' and 'Won't Get Fooled Again' were further away from the centre. However, the LP, and those songs in particular, sounded rather thin and I soon bought an import copy with the original groove spacing.
Geoff