Bill, I’d love to have your opinion on Toscanini’s Beethoven Symphonies side by side Furtwängler’s
🙂
George
You'll need to allow at least 5 years for me to get around to that !
And I suspect you have your own opinion that won't match mine 🙂
And I suspect you have your own opinion that won't match mine 🙂
I figure the effort and cost to produce new vinyl is several fold greater than it was at the end of vinyl's heyday in the early 1980s.
Environmental and safety regulations, raw materials that are in relatively low demand today likely means there are only a few specialized producers left who set the price. Ancient presses and other related hardware requiring specialized maintenance by skilled personnel who likely can write their own ticket. Inflation, high real-estate, energy and labor costs, insurance, etc.
A wonder anyone is pressing new vinyl, it's a luxury/niche market for us hobbyists, the rest of the world has moved on. Record stores are obsolete so again niche distribution model with disproportionately high operating costs. I avoided Amazon when I was actively purchasing vinyl and purchased current releases on vinyl - never replaced any original recordings with reissues. Before I gave up on vinyl I frequented several local and not so local record stores and bought on Discogs.
Environmental and safety regulations, raw materials that are in relatively low demand today likely means there are only a few specialized producers left who set the price. Ancient presses and other related hardware requiring specialized maintenance by skilled personnel who likely can write their own ticket. Inflation, high real-estate, energy and labor costs, insurance, etc.
A wonder anyone is pressing new vinyl, it's a luxury/niche market for us hobbyists, the rest of the world has moved on. Record stores are obsolete so again niche distribution model with disproportionately high operating costs. I avoided Amazon when I was actively purchasing vinyl and purchased current releases on vinyl - never replaced any original recordings with reissues. Before I gave up on vinyl I frequented several local and not so local record stores and bought on Discogs.
I think the late 1970's was the low point for vinyl quality, at least here in Canada. The OPEC oil shock increased the price of raw materials as well as shipping costs, and the result was poorly pressed, flimsy albums that came prewarped. I have not bought a new pressing that was noticeably warped in years. Most of the records I bought in the late 70's were almost unplayable. Sometimes I would have to return 2 or 3 copies of a record to get one that was only mildly warped. Bad old days.
Its a good decade since loading my Ariston RD11 Superior and Micro Seiki arm with Ortofon mc cartridge with a 12" lp. My collection of vinyl is small these days but includes "The Pirates of Penzance" on Decca (D'Orly Carte) and some other pressings from the '60s.
Its interesting to listen to some original pressings vs CD re-releases of HMV recordings and compare the sound. IMHO some CD's and SACD's are very good and so much more convenient.
PS this is all on class A transistor amps, no of these SET.
Its interesting to listen to some original pressings vs CD re-releases of HMV recordings and compare the sound. IMHO some CD's and SACD's are very good and so much more convenient.
PS this is all on class A transistor amps, no of these SET.
Bill
Distilling takes time. 🙂
I got to know him through regular radio transmitions of his rehearsals, that had an impact on me 😀
Toscanini, The Recorded Legend, Classical Notes, Peter Gutmann
George
Distilling takes time. 🙂
I got to know him through regular radio transmitions of his rehearsals, that had an impact on me 😀
Toscanini, The Recorded Legend, Classical Notes, Peter Gutmann
George
I try to buy one a month. I have picked up some very good quality albums (mainly classical and jazz) new that are re-pressings of 1950’s-1970’s recordings (Beethoven, Sibelius, Ella Fitzgerald, Stravinsky etc).
Problem is a lot of the great stuff is gone for ever - you can get it on CD, but only a small fraction is available new on vinyl. I have bought a few second hand recordings and was surprised at how good they were (Lorin Maazel’s recording of Sibelius’s 5th with the Vienna Philharmonic for example). If you root around on the web, there are a few dealers here in the UK
My neighbor is a classical/opera nut with over a thousand vinyls, all in immaculate condition and a nice Linn Sondek T/T + v.d. Hul MC to match.
(When it comes to Beethoven, I’m a von Karajan fan. I’m donning the fire suit now 😀 )
Problem is a lot of the great stuff is gone for ever - you can get it on CD, but only a small fraction is available new on vinyl. I have bought a few second hand recordings and was surprised at how good they were (Lorin Maazel’s recording of Sibelius’s 5th with the Vienna Philharmonic for example). If you root around on the web, there are a few dealers here in the UK
My neighbor is a classical/opera nut with over a thousand vinyls, all in immaculate condition and a nice Linn Sondek T/T + v.d. Hul MC to match.
(When it comes to Beethoven, I’m a von Karajan fan. I’m donning the fire suit now 😀 )
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It's a very low volume market, really. A big chunk of the market is fad / fashion - not like you guys - so I'd suspect the prices are loaded to squeeze the numpty end!
Gee, I just noticed what some of my old Boston hardcore punk LP's are going for. SS Decontrol's "The Kids Will Have Their Say", $1800.00!! Kevin, ever go to the Channel back in the day? 🙂.
Yep.
Index of /features
Wait a minute! You are another one of those who want to 'intellectualise' music!
Horror!
George
George did you survive the fires without too much loss, one of the women that runs our market lost her family home in Greece?
Thank you Scott. Yes, it’s all right with us. Sorry to hear about their house. One of the many families
For three weeks a lot of devastating fires (1/5th of the country forests were burned). No winds but preceded by extreme high temperatures rendering the forests vulnerable (most of them with pine trees).
No citizen deaths this year but two firemen, thanks to early smart warning of the population (through sms localized messages) and robust evacuation planning/execution.
George
For three weeks a lot of devastating fires (1/5th of the country forests were burned). No winds but preceded by extreme high temperatures rendering the forests vulnerable (most of them with pine trees).
No citizen deaths this year but two firemen, thanks to early smart warning of the population (through sms localized messages) and robust evacuation planning/execution.
George
Did I miss something? I thought you were just wandering down the cul de sac of an even more expensive and inconvenient format but still had the two vinyl rigs?
Checking the collection last night I noted I have a few Beethoven symphonies conducted by Erich Kleiber (I will be run out of town by the vinyl lovers here, but I bought the decca sound mono CD box set to scratch my mono Decca itch as finding old LXTs in good condition for not silly money is getting tricky. At £1.20 per CD it was a no brainer). Which then reminded me I do have Kleiber the older on a vinyl re-issue from the late 80s which I am sure I bought as a reader offer in hifinews.
So fallen well and truly down the rabbit hole here and have proved I have too many beethoven cycles and need to cull a few.
My funniest audiophile release (ignoring Direct Disco which I've never had the strength to listen to was a MFSL recut of 'Oxygene' i picked up in a second hand shop. Funny as it was recorded on a basic 8 track in Jarre's kitchen. Can't recall ever playing that either...
Yes, I went there a lot. Saw countless bands I can no longer even remember.. Fun crazy place. LOL
I never made it to the RAT unfortunately.
Roon, and a Chinese made DAC that cost under $600 have persuaded me that analog is pretty much done. Convenience and sound quality that most analog media cannot match on what is a pretty capable playback system. (Vinyl is generally better than tape except in few exceptional cases with certain tapes played on the Studer)
I'll focus my resources on improvements to other areas like improving the speaker system further. (Recently ditched JBL 2440 drivers for Radian 950 Neo PB midrange drivers for example, looking at horns to replace the 2380A)
I still play tape and will keep the Studer A810 and at least 1 TD-124 for when I do feel like listening to vinyl. (The TK-850L and Hayabusa are not going anywhere)
For a variety of reasons I am just not that interested in analog formats anymore.
I have ceased developing new tape and phono playback electronics due to a pretty profound lack of interest in the places where it matters. All of my licensees going back a decade or so have failed to bring anything to market that I have designed so I know I am wasting time better spent on furthering my primary career.
It took 4 decades but I think I am switching camps.
I'll fill you in by email at some point in time, a lot has happened since we last corresponded.
Despite my comments above vinyl here sounds absolutely fine, actually more than fine, listening to a record "vinyl" 😉 for the first time in a while.
Turntable is a TD-124 with 3 phase Papst Aussenlaufer motor running on 3 phase VFD, non-magnetic stainless steel platter (Mirko) with additional damping, Jelco TK-850L (one of the tragedies of the time we live in, possibly their best arm ever) Jelco HS-30 head shell, Mutech RM Kanda Hayabusa LOMC into a Muscovite Mini IV Deluxe with LL1941 SUTs internal to the pre-amp.
It's quite competitive with my digital playback just less convenient and subject to things wearing out. I also have a digital library that is almost 3x larger than my vinyl collection at this point.
In keeping with the topic of the thread I guess I would say the value proposition skews a bit in favor of digital. The analog playback hardware mentioned is another aspect (for me) of the expense of extracting good performance from vinyl. I've had much less expensive gear which just didn't do it for me. I also have another complete setup built around another 124, Sorane tonearm and Panasonic strain gauge with one of my strain gauge pre-amps.
Turntable is a TD-124 with 3 phase Papst Aussenlaufer motor running on 3 phase VFD, non-magnetic stainless steel platter (Mirko) with additional damping, Jelco TK-850L (one of the tragedies of the time we live in, possibly their best arm ever) Jelco HS-30 head shell, Mutech RM Kanda Hayabusa LOMC into a Muscovite Mini IV Deluxe with LL1941 SUTs internal to the pre-amp.
It's quite competitive with my digital playback just less convenient and subject to things wearing out. I also have a digital library that is almost 3x larger than my vinyl collection at this point.
In keeping with the topic of the thread I guess I would say the value proposition skews a bit in favor of digital. The analog playback hardware mentioned is another aspect (for me) of the expense of extracting good performance from vinyl. I've had much less expensive gear which just didn't do it for me. I also have another complete setup built around another 124, Sorane tonearm and Panasonic strain gauge with one of my strain gauge pre-amps.