BMS,
speaking from experience, using mdf for a routing template is.... not so good.
It will always try and 'get outa the way' unless you harden the working surfaces with something as wesayso suggested.
At a pinch you could use beer can material as the hard bit, use 24hr araldite (better heat resistance than the quicker setting stuff) to bond it to your template.
Cant wait to see the finished article 🙂
speaking from experience, using mdf for a routing template is.... not so good.
It will always try and 'get outa the way' unless you harden the working surfaces with something as wesayso suggested.
At a pinch you could use beer can material as the hard bit, use 24hr araldite (better heat resistance than the quicker setting stuff) to bond it to your template.
Cant wait to see the finished article 🙂
🙂 Have been looking at thin sheets of aluminium [0.9mm] but was wondering how to attach the stuff, thanks 🙂
Though, watch the tutorial woodworking vids on YouTube, they all use plain MDF for their templates!? However, longevity is needed so I'll sort out an aluminium edge 🙂
Though, watch the tutorial woodworking vids on YouTube, they all use plain MDF for their templates!? However, longevity is needed so I'll sort out an aluminium edge 🙂
I like that beer can idea 😀.
I used alu sheet because I had it laying around...
Our local version of a homedepot like store sells it. I like to use it because it is easy to shape it on a template. But other thin hard materials should work too.
I've seen the use of bare MDF in those vids, but if you plan to use it more than once you need something better. I just bend it to shape and used some nails here and there to hold it in place.
(I used Birch ply because I had it on hand, but couldn't make several cuts with the same template with it)
I used alu sheet because I had it laying around...
Our local version of a homedepot like store sells it. I like to use it because it is easy to shape it on a template. But other thin hard materials should work too.
I've seen the use of bare MDF in those vids, but if you plan to use it more than once you need something better. I just bend it to shape and used some nails here and there to hold it in place.
(I used Birch ply because I had it on hand, but couldn't make several cuts with the same template with it)
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I only drink bottled Ale... ordered a few sheets of alu of e-bay, already have some 24Hr Araldite 🙂 Electrical tape should be enough to hold it while the glue sets...
I have the necessary bits to continue, but have put all projects on hold for a short time.
After playing with REW over the weekend, I now know that my room is the biggest factor in improving the audible quality of my system. So full acoustic room treatment is very desirable.
Now in a bit of turmoil as to what direction to take :
After playing with REW over the weekend, I now know that my room is the biggest factor in improving the audible quality of my system. So full acoustic room treatment is very desirable.
Now in a bit of turmoil as to what direction to take :
- Get a set of Sennheiser HD800 and finish building a USB > DAC > Balanced headphone amp... [easy, semi-expensive option ... no room changes required]
- Continue as is, with an untreated room, accept that things wont improve with any further speaker builds.. [easy option, but wouldn't be satisfied, go to option 1]
- Strip the room & do full room treatment for a dedicated listening room... [acceptable and not to expensive, however...]
- A dedicated small Home Cinema / listening room, full acoustic treatment and light controlled environment.
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BMS,
Sorry to hear that your room is getting in the way of building speakers! 😀
FWIW, area rugs, wall hangings, bookshelves, furniture all help a lot and, IMO, headphones can never give you the 3d phantom image that good speakers set 4 ft away from a back wall can. If you want to remove room effects, get in ear monitors with balanced armature drivers. They make them in multi-ways with XO's built in even. I have a two way and it sounds really nice and is super efficient (116 dB/1mW) - never use more than 10 o'clock position on volume. But they never give me the engaging sound field that free space speakers give. You might also try direct/reflecting approaches as that uses the reflectivity in the room to advantage and the bass you can take care of with REW or use a dipole slot-load sub. I am playing with the single speaker stereo right now and like what I hear - worth a try as you have all the pieces necessary for a quick test.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/257110-master-nagaoka-tetsuo-explorations-matrixed-single-stereo-speakers-2.html#post3947394
Good luck figuring it all out!
Cheers,
X
Sorry to hear that your room is getting in the way of building speakers! 😀
FWIW, area rugs, wall hangings, bookshelves, furniture all help a lot and, IMO, headphones can never give you the 3d phantom image that good speakers set 4 ft away from a back wall can. If you want to remove room effects, get in ear monitors with balanced armature drivers. They make them in multi-ways with XO's built in even. I have a two way and it sounds really nice and is super efficient (116 dB/1mW) - never use more than 10 o'clock position on volume. But they never give me the engaging sound field that free space speakers give. You might also try direct/reflecting approaches as that uses the reflectivity in the room to advantage and the bass you can take care of with REW or use a dipole slot-load sub. I am playing with the single speaker stereo right now and like what I hear - worth a try as you have all the pieces necessary for a quick test.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/257110-master-nagaoka-tetsuo-explorations-matrixed-single-stereo-speakers-2.html#post3947394
Good luck figuring it all out!
Cheers,
X
Neither of my two rooms are ideal, one is physically small and the other dont have a high enough ceiling....... that dont stop me shipping in speakers and building the odd pair.
Try adding the word 'Compromise' to ones vocabulary 😉 (unless you win the Euro Lottery tonight......)
🙂 Nothing physically stopping me building speakers, am playing with a few different on paper design's at the moment, plus trimming the aluminium into strips ready for the MDF Nautaloss template. Just ticking over slowly while I mull things over.
Compromise is what I'm doing at the moment and I'm not overly happy with it. Just feels like everything's only half done. Bookcases, soft furnishings, plus correct speaker and listening location have helped with early reflections and dodging the worst of the room effects, I just know things can be improved.
Might be better swapping rooms. Make a two seat Home Cinema in the small room, then move around the living room for better speaker placement and add discrete room treatment... A reasonable plan of action... 🙁 forget to get my lottery ticket.
Compromise is what I'm doing at the moment and I'm not overly happy with it. Just feels like everything's only half done. Bookcases, soft furnishings, plus correct speaker and listening location have helped with early reflections and dodging the worst of the room effects, I just know things can be improved.
Might be better swapping rooms. Make a two seat Home Cinema in the small room, then move around the living room for better speaker placement and add discrete room treatment... A reasonable plan of action... 🙁 forget to get my lottery ticket.
BMS, xrk971 mention speaker 4 ft away from a back wall have you tried this. 3-4 ft away helped me to much better sound stage as i can get in headphones, and add by same thing sound not more so track dependent meaning all my tracks can be played again as they always could in headphones. I mention this because it can make one rethink if room treatment is necessary.
Thanks, it had been noted, however it is to far into my room to be practical. The room is 2.9m x 3m, trying to locate the speakers and listening position away from 1/2, 1/3 & 1/4 distances doesn't leave much room to manoeuvre.
Currently, early reflections are reasonably well controlled and imaging is good. However, I'm utilising the miniSharc [EQ] to battle comb filtering effects where I should be using passive means. This EQ'ing is causing a lot of the peaks within the HD measurements. Plus, because the cause is still very present, it's effecting the overall THD levels also...
Putting money where my mouth is... this evening I've ordered six Pro Acoustic [brand] bass traps.
Currently, early reflections are reasonably well controlled and imaging is good. However, I'm utilising the miniSharc [EQ] to battle comb filtering effects where I should be using passive means. This EQ'ing is causing a lot of the peaks within the HD measurements. Plus, because the cause is still very present, it's effecting the overall THD levels also...
Putting money where my mouth is... this evening I've ordered six Pro Acoustic [brand] bass traps.
BMS,
When you EQ, try to cut peaks and do not fill valleys as that causes increased cone excursion and higher HD. Also avoid any narrow peak EQ'ing as that messes with the phase more than a broad low Q shelf. Also try to leave the 500 Hz to 5kHz region free from EQ as much as possible to avoid phase distortion hat messes up imaging.
1. Cut peaks do not fill valleys
2. Broad strokes with low Q shelves
3. Avoid touching 500hz to 5khz.
When you EQ, try to cut peaks and do not fill valleys as that causes increased cone excursion and higher HD. Also avoid any narrow peak EQ'ing as that messes with the phase more than a broad low Q shelf. Also try to leave the 500 Hz to 5kHz region free from EQ as much as possible to avoid phase distortion hat messes up imaging.
1. Cut peaks do not fill valleys
2. Broad strokes with low Q shelves
3. Avoid touching 500hz to 5khz.
That's exactly what I try to do, but when faced with some deep nulls [-15dB], that's some cutting required to get the response fairly level... The driver's are still working hard where the nulls are located, compared to the EQ'ed areas. Increase the SPL and where these nulls occur, the driver can be outputting up to 15dB more than within the EQ'ed areas. This is why I'm measuring some large HD peaks... Currently fighting the symptoms and not the cause 🙂
Bass traps are on their way... Hopefully they'll do the job and I'll be even happier 🙂
Bass traps are on their way... Hopefully they'll do the job and I'll be even happier 🙂
two driver push-pull nautaloss bass?
Has anyone built, drawn, contemplated, etc. a Nautaloss bass speaker with two drivers in a push pull arrangement instead of four? Seems like it might be a better match for the Nautaloss I. Ideas on how big to make it?
Another idea for such a speaker would be to make a pair. In addition to whatever stereo you got from them, it would eliminate the need to feed them through a mixer.
This stuff looks irresistable. Too much fun for too little money.
Has anyone built, drawn, contemplated, etc. a Nautaloss bass speaker with two drivers in a push pull arrangement instead of four? Seems like it might be a better match for the Nautaloss I. Ideas on how big to make it?
Another idea for such a speaker would be to make a pair. In addition to whatever stereo you got from them, it would eliminate the need to feed them through a mixer.
This stuff looks irresistable. Too much fun for too little money.
Do you mean two face to face drivers in isobaric push pull or two side by side in push push with one basket flipped to reduce hysteresis induced distortion?
Yes it is a lot of fun for little cash. 😀
What I mean is the thing you said worked really well when you went from two drivers to four in post #57 "Bass Nautaloss with Quad Driver Push-Pull". If that's "isobaric" then yeah.
My daughter is moving into a new apartment and thinks the One-pi speakers I built for her when she went off to college would be too loud. So I was thinking maybe the Nautaloss I might be just the thing.
My daughter is moving into a new apartment and thinks the One-pi speakers I built for her when she went off to college would be too loud. So I was thinking maybe the Nautaloss I might be just the thing.
Yes, give it a try - will you be making it out of foam core? The added benefit is the light weight and easy to move aspect. Look for high Qts drivers in order to get sufficient bass without EQ'ing and set the volume of the Nautaloss to the same volume as a sealed box. With two drivers in isobaric push-pull you can cut the volume in half for a more compact speaker. I find that most budget 6 to 8 inch drivers in the sub $15 range are relatively high Qts and are perfect for this. If you combined the Nautaloss sub with a smaller Nautaloss top in one cabinet (separate chambers) you can have a pretty nice 2-way FAST. Keep the spacing between the woofer and the fullrange as close as possible and set the XO between 150 Hz and 250 Hz (adjust to taste).