Yes, gotta have it go low enough to mate with the sub, I looked the other night and the sub only goes up to 140, I have it set at about halfway. (plenty of deep rich bass) As I woke up this morning I had several thoughts, one was to lay the dagger down against the baffle and point it downwards, but then I could see it restricting the top of the driver and the sides, then I pictured the entire back of the baffle tapered in all four directions, maybe cast in concrete with a 1.5" baffle so the driver can't excite it.... 
Or you could build the spiral Nautaloss in FC and place that behind your baffle. Easy enough to try.
I drew a picture of what I'm picturing. Technically I could cast the concrete with huge radius's on the three edges to eliminate diffraction too. 🙂
Attachments
Last edited:
If I am looking at the picture right, your intent is to have the sound get trapped by the skinny triangular shaped perimeter? You still have a flat surface directly behind the driver (albeit, angled) that can still reflect sound right back to the cone and cause dips. Also, the volume is quite large now and you may have an issue with controlling excursion at higher SPLs. Plus, that thing if made out of concrete will crush small children and pets if falls over (or it will break your back when moving it). 🙂
I would rather call it apperiodic with BIG BAFFLE
but clearly shows that some of the attraction of OB may just as well be the big baffle
another possibility related to thread topic 😉
or you could try and make some nicely curved baffles from the foam sheet used for the nautaloss
you may not need more than a small piece of plywood for the driver, and bend the foam with strings
maybe you can even try and tune it 😀
but clearly shows that some of the attraction of OB may just as well be the big baffle
another possibility related to thread topic 😉
or you could try and make some nicely curved baffles from the foam sheet used for the nautaloss
you may not need more than a small piece of plywood for the driver, and bend the foam with strings
maybe you can even try and tune it 😀
Thanks for re-vectoring this thread back on topic!
Really, it is an easy fun build to make the spiral. You should try it Cradledorf. I feel like I am Sam in Green Eggs and Ham... 🙂
Seen these?
part 1
B&W Nautilus Loudspeaker story Part 1 - YouTube
Part 2
B&W Nautilus Loudspeaker Story Part 2 - YouTube
part 1
B&W Nautilus Loudspeaker story Part 1 - YouTube
Part 2
B&W Nautilus Loudspeaker Story Part 2 - YouTube
Jonnoshore,
Great vids - yes, I have seen them and really was the inspiration that led to a whim, which led to cutting some foam core, which led to the Nautaloss - and I was amazed at the resulting performance. It behaves as an acoustic black hole with no box coloration while keeping a fairly compact 'box' dimension.
Great vids - yes, I have seen them and really was the inspiration that led to a whim, which led to cutting some foam core, which led to the Nautaloss - and I was amazed at the resulting performance. It behaves as an acoustic black hole with no box coloration while keeping a fairly compact 'box' dimension.
Ok I get it - stacks of circles to make a curved surface. That would be interesting but then you have the rough surface texture of the cut edges. Maybe can be filled in with putty and painted smooth.
Vertically integrated bi-amp is better!
I just got some new TPA3116D2 amps for $13.75 ea (shipping included). These are the Ybdz 2.0's on Aliexpress.
They sound excellent!
Using them vertically integrated with the miniDSP XO gives better phase accuracy for the XO. My XO points for the tops and subs now match perfectly and do not require manual adjustment of the XO point for the tops and bottom to get a flat response over the XO region.
I was using a class A/B Yamaha for the bass and a homebuilt TPA3116D2 for the tops previously. Now using identical TPA3116D2's for both left and right channels with the same amp being used for the bass and tops on each channel gives very nice sound quality and makes the soundstage even better.
Here is the new setup:
In room response:
I just got some new TPA3116D2 amps for $13.75 ea (shipping included). These are the Ybdz 2.0's on Aliexpress.
They sound excellent!
Using them vertically integrated with the miniDSP XO gives better phase accuracy for the XO. My XO points for the tops and subs now match perfectly and do not require manual adjustment of the XO point for the tops and bottom to get a flat response over the XO region.
I was using a class A/B Yamaha for the bass and a homebuilt TPA3116D2 for the tops previously. Now using identical TPA3116D2's for both left and right channels with the same amp being used for the bass and tops on each channel gives very nice sound quality and makes the soundstage even better.
Here is the new setup:
In room response:
Attachments
Actually I'm back to the open baffles, Although I doubled them up so they're 24" wide by 41" tall and 1.5" thick. ( I Dumped the PVC pipe idea) Kinda drifted away from the sealed idea for some reason, I have been making about 20 changes a day for the last week. 😀 Sorta getting somewhere but sometimes I wonder. Got to thinking about caps last night, drooled over the Dueland casts until I nearly died from seeing the pricetag of them. $3200 for 0ne 40uf cap...and I need 100Uf per speaker... yeah that was out of the question. today I removed all crossover parts and am running them full range. not quite as much clarity as I like but better overall coverage of the entire bandwidth. still playing will post up anything if I make a major breakthrough at getting these suckers sounding good.
How about you? Do you have anything new in the works?
How about you? Do you have anything new in the works?
Last edited:
Hi x, I been following this thread for a long time now. Its very impressive all the projects you've done with FC enclosures. My hands are itching to try something out with FC. I have a question, got a peerless 830668 10" driver (Peerless 830668 10" Paper Cone SLS Subwoofer | 264-1110) and wondering if I can use it to build a nautoloss sub. Do you think it could work with this driver?
Diynewbie2012,
Thanks for following my builds and the kind words. 🙂
The Peerless driver you are looking at is perfect for this as it has a very generous xmax which will allow you to use EQ to really flatten and extend the bass even lower than the fs value. You might want to use at least some thin plywood reinforcement on the baffle cutout in order to support the 7lb weight of the driver. A 10 in wide Nautaloss enclosure with a single sheet of foam core for the sides at 20x30 in gives a pretty good sealed volume of as little under 2 cu ft which is within the optimal range specified by the manufacturer for a sealed alignment. This driver has shorting rings which will mean it will have great low distortion performance. Follow Grandcalmar's lead on his sub using the Dayton DVC woofer and add some plywood legs. Another option is to use fairly thin plywood for the sides like 1/4 in thick and foam core just for the curved channels. The foam core spiral provides inherent bracing for the thin wood. What were you planning to use for the fullrange tops? Give the Vifa's a try and you won't be disappointed. If you are not using a miniDSP or other DSP EQ and XO solution you will need a BSC circuit to flatten the response or it may sound shouty and trill. I highly recommend the 2x4 miniDSP and dual tpa3116 amp solution I show above. It makes everything easier and this speaker system truly sounds phenomenal - and I won't even say "for the price". 🙂
Good luck! Looking forward to seeing your build.
Cheers,
X
Thanks for following my builds and the kind words. 🙂
The Peerless driver you are looking at is perfect for this as it has a very generous xmax which will allow you to use EQ to really flatten and extend the bass even lower than the fs value. You might want to use at least some thin plywood reinforcement on the baffle cutout in order to support the 7lb weight of the driver. A 10 in wide Nautaloss enclosure with a single sheet of foam core for the sides at 20x30 in gives a pretty good sealed volume of as little under 2 cu ft which is within the optimal range specified by the manufacturer for a sealed alignment. This driver has shorting rings which will mean it will have great low distortion performance. Follow Grandcalmar's lead on his sub using the Dayton DVC woofer and add some plywood legs. Another option is to use fairly thin plywood for the sides like 1/4 in thick and foam core just for the curved channels. The foam core spiral provides inherent bracing for the thin wood. What were you planning to use for the fullrange tops? Give the Vifa's a try and you won't be disappointed. If you are not using a miniDSP or other DSP EQ and XO solution you will need a BSC circuit to flatten the response or it may sound shouty and trill. I highly recommend the 2x4 miniDSP and dual tpa3116 amp solution I show above. It makes everything easier and this speaker system truly sounds phenomenal - and I won't even say "for the price". 🙂
Good luck! Looking forward to seeing your build.
Cheers,
X
Last edited:
Rather than spending anything close to that much for a boutique cap that achieves first order high pass filter that is not adjustable you are way better off getting a miniDIGI and nice DAC's and power amps to go with them. You can dial in any filter you want on the fly. It sounds like you like to experiment a lot and having a DSP solution really lets you open up the trade space for experimentation into the realm of crossover frequencies and slopes - which will have a much bigger influence than whether or not one uses pure gold foil in Norwegian beluga oil insulator caps 🙂
Ever since I got the minDSP and active XO setup with bi amping - it has really been a game changer.
You should check out the cool baffle cutout tricks being discussed in the Cheap FAST OB thread - improved directivity for polar response and reduction of floor bounce null are some of the things being discussed.
Still, out of all the dozens of experiments you have tried it is a shame you still have not yet been willing to give a try with the thread's namesake of a Nautaloss spiral or even a straightened out Dagger.
Playing around with the various Nautaloss's and subs that I have, I tried the Nautaloss I which has reduced sensitivity, but improved imaging and coherence of a point source, and augmented the Nautaloss sub with the big XPS foam MLTL using the same drivers that are in the Nautaloss sub. The bass extension is really improved and reaches the high 20's now. HD is sub 1% above 100 Hz and varies from 1% to 4% from 100 Hz to 30 Hz. Not too bad for qnty 4 of the $5 PE buyout woofers and a couple of $12 Vifa's.
Here is the latest in room response - you really can feel a difference with the added bass from 27 Hz to 50 Hz - some tracks are very engaging now because of the low freq content down there. Oh, and this is with the dual TPA3116D2 Ybdz amps in vertical bi-amp mode as shown above with the pair of series-wired MLTL's on the left and the dual driver Nautaloss sub on the right. XO is 200 Hz for HP and LP with 24dB/oct LR.
This has been a lot of fun playing with the various setups that the miniDSP has made possible.
Here is the latest in room response - you really can feel a difference with the added bass from 27 Hz to 50 Hz - some tracks are very engaging now because of the low freq content down there. Oh, and this is with the dual TPA3116D2 Ybdz amps in vertical bi-amp mode as shown above with the pair of series-wired MLTL's on the left and the dual driver Nautaloss sub on the right. XO is 200 Hz for HP and LP with 24dB/oct LR.
This has been a lot of fun playing with the various setups that the miniDSP has made possible.
Attachments
Thanks for your advise. Initially I am looking at pairing the sub with old Tannoy bookshelf speakers using active crossovers. I already have the peerless driver so I thought I will start with the sub before doing the full range. I like what you did with the Vifa's but the problem is here in the UK those are hard to get.
I do have a question. Can I use the same spiral dimensions you've provided for Dayton DVC woofer or do I need to scale it up considering this is a 10" driver.