This must do something to you Perceval 🙂. Getting all itchy building a new set of arrays yet (lol)...
Ra7,
Great corner job! I love the idea of a single baffle board speaker with no parallel walls! Is the speaker really 3 pieces of wood or a single board screwed to the corner like I suspect? Did you stuff with fiberglass/polyfill? The corner mount also boosts the bass by +9dB nice trick!
Great corner job! I love the idea of a single baffle board speaker with no parallel walls! Is the speaker really 3 pieces of wood or a single board screwed to the corner like I suspect? Did you stuff with fiberglass/polyfill? The corner mount also boosts the bass by +9dB nice trick!
Ra7
Were you inspired by The Murphy Corner Array:
https://www.trueaudio.com/array/
One of my Hi.Fi friends in Denmark made them in the corners as you did and they are performing very well.
Besides the lesser reflections, you do get another advantage. You dont need as much compensation in the lower octaves, so with 24 in each array, you probably won´t need a sub!
Were you inspired by The Murphy Corner Array:
https://www.trueaudio.com/array/
One of my Hi.Fi friends in Denmark made them in the corners as you did and they are performing very well.
Besides the lesser reflections, you do get another advantage. You dont need as much compensation in the lower octaves, so with 24 in each array, you probably won´t need a sub!
Wow... many responses and questions. I'll try to be brief.
I'll post more details on the impulse response and the frequency response. Maybe over the weekend. Work and life is pretty busy right (we have a 3-month old 🙂). That's one of the reasons I outsourced the building of the arrays. They were built by diyaudio member "carpenter." As you can tell from the name, he is an expert carpenter. In fact, he is more than that, he is a diy inspiration. Check out his crazy builds:
www.inlowsound.com
He got it done way faster than I could have and his work is always professional grade. It meant giving up building the things, something that is always enjoyable. But it would have taken me months to complete the build.
Drivers are Vifa/Tymphany TC9. Space between arrays is about 13-14 feet. Ceiling is 7ft high. It's a triangular cabinet. John (carpenter) sloped the top so that the arrays can go into the corners easily when they are stood up. He used birch ply I think. And he put a 1/8th sheet on top so that the drivers are flush with the front baffle.
Using JRiver for convolution and playback. I built my own multi-channel DAC:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pc-based/256809-setting-up-pc-based-multichannel-dsp-system.html
I was not inspired by the Murphy corner array though I was aware of it. I was more thinking about directivity control and controlling reflections, especially below the region that traditional horns can go, about 500 Hz. You can see my previous effort here, which was inspired by the Dave Smith Expanding Arrays:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/258246-corner-expanding-line-array-kef-q100.html
The bass boost is good, but I haven't decided if I want to push the little 3.5" drivers in the bass, even though the excursion would be very low.
More later. Maybe in my own thread. Thanks for the support everyone. And especially Wesayso. His thread really helped solidify the idea and seal the deal. And for introducing us to DRC, I owe Wesayso a beer or two 🙂
I'll post more details on the impulse response and the frequency response. Maybe over the weekend. Work and life is pretty busy right (we have a 3-month old 🙂). That's one of the reasons I outsourced the building of the arrays. They were built by diyaudio member "carpenter." As you can tell from the name, he is an expert carpenter. In fact, he is more than that, he is a diy inspiration. Check out his crazy builds:
www.inlowsound.com
He got it done way faster than I could have and his work is always professional grade. It meant giving up building the things, something that is always enjoyable. But it would have taken me months to complete the build.
Drivers are Vifa/Tymphany TC9. Space between arrays is about 13-14 feet. Ceiling is 7ft high. It's a triangular cabinet. John (carpenter) sloped the top so that the arrays can go into the corners easily when they are stood up. He used birch ply I think. And he put a 1/8th sheet on top so that the drivers are flush with the front baffle.
Using JRiver for convolution and playback. I built my own multi-channel DAC:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pc-based/256809-setting-up-pc-based-multichannel-dsp-system.html
I was not inspired by the Murphy corner array though I was aware of it. I was more thinking about directivity control and controlling reflections, especially below the region that traditional horns can go, about 500 Hz. You can see my previous effort here, which was inspired by the Dave Smith Expanding Arrays:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/258246-corner-expanding-line-array-kef-q100.html
The bass boost is good, but I haven't decided if I want to push the little 3.5" drivers in the bass, even though the excursion would be very low.
More later. Maybe in my own thread. Thanks for the support everyone. And especially Wesayso. His thread really helped solidify the idea and seal the deal. And for introducing us to DRC, I owe Wesayso a beer or two 🙂
Glad to read you've got something useful out of my story here. I'm just trying to give something back to the site (and it's occupants) that has been one of my biggest source for inspiration and learning. Dave Smith has surely been an inspiration for me. That's why I love this site, there's a wealth of information on here if you are prepared to go trough it all.
I'll hang on to my questions and wait until you open up your own thread. 🙂
About the low end, treat your arrays as you would a multiple sub setup, let them join in with help from the regular sub(s).
I'll hang on to my questions and wait until you open up your own thread. 🙂
About the low end, treat your arrays as you would a multiple sub setup, let them join in with help from the regular sub(s).
Same here, and I still have my first set playing! 😱
....really...want...to....build....something...arrgh... 😀
Halair: Just throw some FIR correction on yours!
I've been around every day awaiting the new thread by ra7. Am I that impatient? lol.
Anyway, on to the regular scheduled program over here again. Last week I posted about experiments with cross talk cancelation. Does it really work? Well it does do something! That's for sure. But I couldn't get what I wanted out of it. At least not entirely. So I decided to look at what my cross talk cancelation did to my FR response and copy that behaviour to my regular setup. Just some small cuts and boosts in the mid side part of my processing combined with the s-curve I had going there already.
After some tuning and changing I had to wait 3 days to have a few hours by myself in the house. Music is blasting as I type this: win!
Glad I do this experiments, improved intelligibility in my phantom centre is what I perceive.
Earlier I had some strange experiences that made me think higher bitrate audio was giving me a more believable stage depth compared to standard 44100. After testing and testing I managed to find a clue: what it did was change the relative time difference between my mains and ambient speakers.
Some of the mid-side processing was only in the mains and due to that it changed the timing of higher bitrate material compared to more standard red book CD stuff. So I changed the processing so the timing stays the same no matter which bitrate is running and: another bingo.
I had to use Metaplugin again to be able to do it. Even though I've seen it create some ripples of itself. (due to introducing time delay)
But the sound? I get lost in every song. It sucks me right in. Very powerful.
Did I just find my eyebrows?
I don't know what I found but I like it. Well I know what I did obviously. But I'm still using the same processing from a measurement in September, though it was changed in a few details.
I've been around every day awaiting the new thread by ra7. Am I that impatient? lol.
Anyway, on to the regular scheduled program over here again. Last week I posted about experiments with cross talk cancelation. Does it really work? Well it does do something! That's for sure. But I couldn't get what I wanted out of it. At least not entirely. So I decided to look at what my cross talk cancelation did to my FR response and copy that behaviour to my regular setup. Just some small cuts and boosts in the mid side part of my processing combined with the s-curve I had going there already.
After some tuning and changing I had to wait 3 days to have a few hours by myself in the house. Music is blasting as I type this: win!
Glad I do this experiments, improved intelligibility in my phantom centre is what I perceive.
Earlier I had some strange experiences that made me think higher bitrate audio was giving me a more believable stage depth compared to standard 44100. After testing and testing I managed to find a clue: what it did was change the relative time difference between my mains and ambient speakers.
Some of the mid-side processing was only in the mains and due to that it changed the timing of higher bitrate material compared to more standard red book CD stuff. So I changed the processing so the timing stays the same no matter which bitrate is running and: another bingo.
I had to use Metaplugin again to be able to do it. Even though I've seen it create some ripples of itself. (due to introducing time delay)
But the sound? I get lost in every song. It sucks me right in. Very powerful.
Did I just find my eyebrows?
I don't know what I found but I like it. Well I know what I did obviously. But I'm still using the same processing from a measurement in September, though it was changed in a few details.
Cool! You are still playing with your towers... I believe you will for some time!
Halair, whenever I get in that mood, I build something simple yet rewarding.
Check out the Tabaq thread, or the EVA speakers...they are fun, cheap and amazing! It soothes the urge of building something, and it may end up being cool presents to family members or friends... after you enjoyed them thoroughly of course!
As for me, I am trying to build a boombox using the BBE music player as DSP to help with the small enclosures but big sound. There's potential!
All that while waiting for the opportunity to build my next pair of "towers"
Halair, whenever I get in that mood, I build something simple yet rewarding.
Check out the Tabaq thread, or the EVA speakers...they are fun, cheap and amazing! It soothes the urge of building something, and it may end up being cool presents to family members or friends... after you enjoyed them thoroughly of course!
As for me, I am trying to build a boombox using the BBE music player as DSP to help with the small enclosures but big sound. There's potential!
All that while waiting for the opportunity to build my next pair of "towers"
Hi wesayso, sorry but pointless things such as work and life have got in the way... Over the christmas holidays, i promise.
No hurry ra7, you'll get to it I'm sure...
This project taught me a thing or two about being patient. 😱
This project taught me a thing or two about being patient. 😱
Lost my sweet spot 😉
That's a bummer... it looks like from now on I have to give up the best seat in the house. My son discovered the benefit and wants to sit there during movie watching. It wasn't a big issue for him until he watched Back to the Future part II yesterday. Today we watched part III and I really had no chance. I'm just glad I spend enough time on my correction to make sure the second best seats are getting a pretty good sound too.
Looks like I'll be out of that spot more often from now on 😉.
That's the beauty, you won't know/notice until you sit right there. It will still sound great but in the sweet spot (more like "sweet area" as there's still plenty of room to move around) everything falls into place just that bit more. He was on the edge of the seat almost the entire movie. He's 9 year old and couldn't stop thinking about what he had seen long after the movie was over...
I still enjoyed the orchestral parts and the ZZ-Top cameo from where I sat.
That's a bummer... it looks like from now on I have to give up the best seat in the house. My son discovered the benefit and wants to sit there during movie watching. It wasn't a big issue for him until he watched Back to the Future part II yesterday. Today we watched part III and I really had no chance. I'm just glad I spend enough time on my correction to make sure the second best seats are getting a pretty good sound too.
Looks like I'll be out of that spot more often from now on 😉.
That's the beauty, you won't know/notice until you sit right there. It will still sound great but in the sweet spot (more like "sweet area" as there's still plenty of room to move around) everything falls into place just that bit more. He was on the edge of the seat almost the entire movie. He's 9 year old and couldn't stop thinking about what he had seen long after the movie was over...
I still enjoyed the orchestral parts and the ZZ-Top cameo from where I sat.
I thought I had one of those, though for different purposes:
1982 Porsche 911, first build. simple system - Car Audio | DiyMobileAudio.com | Car Stereo Forum
It does feature sound, but the Car has better sound. Now the house has even better sound than that one.
GREAT!!!!!I thought I had one of those, though for different purposes:
1982 Porsche 911, first build. simple system - Car Audio | DiyMobileAudio.com | Car Stereo Forum
It does feature sound, but the Car has better sound. Now the house has even better sound than that one.
That is a great pic, Wesayso. I want to restore an old speedster too one day though I know nothing about cars.
Anyway, I was trying to investigate why the impulse response of my array was so different from your and Halair's array. I think it was the convoluted measurement path. I was choosing Java drivers in REW so that I could play the impulse with JRiver in the way and record the sound using the EMU card. If I use EMU 0204 for both input (go straight from soundcard to amp) and for recording output using ASIO drivers, I get the response attached. Makes me feel better.
Anyway, I was trying to investigate why the impulse response of my array was so different from your and Halair's array. I think it was the convoluted measurement path. I was choosing Java drivers in REW so that I could play the impulse with JRiver in the way and record the sound using the EMU card. If I use EMU 0204 for both input (go straight from soundcard to amp) and for recording output using ASIO drivers, I get the response attached. Makes me feel better.
Attachments
Thanks guys, I've always been into classic cars. I wouldn't mind a Speedster, but this one above I get to drive on a daily basis and it can handle it. Sometimes I have to take it apart a bit but for a 33 year old it's holding up pretty strong. It still drives like a dream!
I'm glad you found the cause for the disturbances in the IR. That will help to get ahead. Tiny things can throw off the results. I know I'll do loop back measurements from now on at any change in my digital chain. Knowing what you have is becoming more and more important.
Do try to look at the (corrected) IR with the frequency dependant filters, on the filtered IR tab set it to the different views like 4000 Hz 1/3 and go back to the impulse tab to see what that does. Very enlightening and much more informative than just viewing IR and STEP. Comparing it to a loop back measurement gives a clear view on why everything we need to know is right there in that IR. That's your speaker, equipment and room right there.
It still is a somewhat limited view but seeing more than just the high frequencies that dominate the usual representation really opened my eyes.
It also gives an honest view on pré-ringing if there is any. Good to keep an eye on that!
I'm glad you found the cause for the disturbances in the IR. That will help to get ahead. Tiny things can throw off the results. I know I'll do loop back measurements from now on at any change in my digital chain. Knowing what you have is becoming more and more important.
Do try to look at the (corrected) IR with the frequency dependant filters, on the filtered IR tab set it to the different views like 4000 Hz 1/3 and go back to the impulse tab to see what that does. Very enlightening and much more informative than just viewing IR and STEP. Comparing it to a loop back measurement gives a clear view on why everything we need to know is right there in that IR. That's your speaker, equipment and room right there.
It still is a somewhat limited view but seeing more than just the high frequencies that dominate the usual representation really opened my eyes.
It also gives an honest view on pré-ringing if there is any. Good to keep an eye on that!
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When I was a kid in high school a friend of the family loaned me his 911 for a month for me to tune the Weber carburetors (1967 still had carburetors). It was a fantastic and memorable experience - they are fast and fun cars. Still remember being shocked how fast a tiny 2.0 liter flat six can be.
