Hi,
Brandnew design... The-Loudspeaker-III
tweeter Horn between the mid and the bass driver.
What do you think of it, please ?
The horn is flipped 6% toward the ceilling, . And the center to center is huge. Why is it not an issue ?
Can you please comment about that ? Is it time aligned or just "lobed" ? Still symetric LR12 ???
Ok, such loudspeaker must have dynamic and slam, but can it has a good soundstage and good enough fusion of the drivers ?
Brandnew design... The-Loudspeaker-III
tweeter Horn between the mid and the bass driver.
What do you think of it, please ?
The horn is flipped 6% toward the ceilling, . And the center to center is huge. Why is it not an issue ?
Can you please comment about that ? Is it time aligned or just "lobed" ? Still symetric LR12 ???
Ok, such loudspeaker must have dynamic and slam, but can it has a good soundstage and good enough fusion of the drivers ?
If space is no concern then go ahead and build these.
2nd order electrical low pass on the midrange should result in a 2nd order acoustic low pass characteristic.
Therefore it cannot be LR12, which requires 2nd order acoustic slopes.
Center-to-center distance must be viewed relative to the wavelength at the crossover frequency.
It is all on troelsgravesen.dk:
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/The-Loudspeaker-III.htm said:
2nd order electrical high pass on the tweeter results in a 4th order acoustic high pass characteristic.
2nd order electrical low pass on the midrange should result in a 2nd order acoustic low pass characteristic.
Therefore it cannot be LR12, which requires 2nd order acoustic slopes.
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Can´t be The loudspeaker with single 15".
Boring same old 1095, theres many great drivers out there which needs to be tested.
never gonna build any of his speakers, sure want to hear them though.
Boring same old 1095, theres many great drivers out there which needs to be tested.
never gonna build any of his speakers, sure want to hear them though.
Looks good. A full prosound enlosure with no hi-fi driver in sight. That says a little something considering all the other fancy components he's played with over the years.
Maybe he'll go fully active when he no longer gets sponsorships.
Maybe he'll go fully active when he no longer gets sponsorships.
I meant : "not small", i.e. in my mind > 1 wave length of the XO frequency.. I talk about the vertical spacing between the center of each driver. I imagine it is not the edge of the mouth for the horn but the center of the radius due to the frequencies involved. (I assume > 1500 Hz ? I don't remember he has shown the XO point on a Fournier transform...
Looks nice but not a budget build, Level 2 kit (cheapest, FA251 and Alumen caps) with Hypex amp is 1600euro, drivers are around £900 in Uk plus wood (lots of it) and finish - you are looking at a £3k build.
sure... and more costy if you buy the wood but don't succeed the assembly...
I think it will be interressant to benchmark the design with the one to come from HumbleHomeMade : the Calapamos second iteration with the hf1440 from Faital and the 12PR320... (2 ways against 3 ways... I would assume 3 ways always winns but who knows).
The hypex can rule time delay on the bass, but what about the mi and the horn tweet with passive parts ? I would like he also shows impulse response... while no brands shown them... I believe TG likes dynamic and rythms (tubey amps and cd players, turnables, bigger and bigger Sd in his loudspeakers... I can see a logic, while I'm not sure abou soundstages and timbers as main rules... but who knows ?
My thread is more about to understand the trade offs he made here as it is him first 3 ways with horn... I do believe his two first 3 ways big classic with Faital and SS drivers to be very good already...
I think it will be interressant to benchmark the design with the one to come from HumbleHomeMade : the Calapamos second iteration with the hf1440 from Faital and the 12PR320... (2 ways against 3 ways... I would assume 3 ways always winns but who knows).
The hypex can rule time delay on the bass, but what about the mi and the horn tweet with passive parts ? I would like he also shows impulse response... while no brands shown them... I believe TG likes dynamic and rythms (tubey amps and cd players, turnables, bigger and bigger Sd in his loudspeakers... I can see a logic, while I'm not sure abou soundstages and timbers as main rules... but who knows ?
My thread is more about to understand the trade offs he made here as it is him first 3 ways with horn... I do believe his two first 3 ways big classic with Faital and SS drivers to be very good already...
I don't quite get the rationale in this design.
On the one hand, Troels uses high-efficiency drivers, and a large bass box. This should allow pretty high overall sensitivity of the speaker as a whole. In addition, he runs the bass active with a dedicated plate amp, which further removes the usual efficiency limits imposed by the woofer / box size.
On the other hand, however, the overall SPL curve ends up at about 90 dB only. This could be achieved with a much smaller box, and with a passive woofer.
I don't get why Troels made this speaker so big, and why he used a plate amp.
It's a big 15" driver,
impossible to put that it in a small box that goes down to 30Hz without a lot of eq.
With a plate amp it's easier to integrate the woofer (spl) with the MT,
also no need for a passive woofer xo with large (expensive) coils.
Extract from Troels description:
Having the bass powered by a Hypex plate-amp/DSP, you can run the MT section from as little as a 15 watt amp.
Due to the Hypex plate-amp/DSP, the bass crossover can be spared as the low-pass function and equalisation is done the Hypex' DSP.
This also means we have no need for the impedance correcting circuit.
Overall very simple circuitry and we can spend our money on the very best of caps for the horn - and it pays off.
Yes, all good points. But it does not explain why this large loudspeaker has such low sensitivity. He could have used a much smaller woofer and box to get the same result. Not one of his best designs, if you ask me.
Yes, an additional 2-3db would be nice for this size.
I wonder why there's a R4 in front of the mid xo section.
Still, Troels says it's one of his best speakers for transparency.
I would like to hear it 🙂
I wonder why there's a R4 in front of the mid xo section.
Still, Troels says it's one of his best speakers for transparency.
I would like to hear it 🙂
IMO that +2-3dB sensitivity would be reachable without the R4, and less attenuating on the tweeter, maybe the bass-driving Fusionamp needs a little boost, not a big deal.
Same sensitivity maybe but nowhere where near the same max spl or low frequency extension. Dynamic capability.
I've not ever really been a fan of most of his designs as they come across as a way to sell expensive xovers, and there is always something weird in them. For example this line:
"I strongly advise the front grill as it helps us so much listening rather than seeing."
Really? You just spent a heap of time building them, so do you think a bit of fabric is going to make you forget what they look like?
It's similar in concept to my surrounds from about '05.
"I strongly advise the front grill as it helps us so much listening rather than seeing."
Really? You just spent a heap of time building them, so do you think a bit of fabric is going to make you forget what they look like?
It's similar in concept to my surrounds from about '05.
You can get away with large bass to mid spacings. It becomes a challenge to balance your direct sound to the room power, while at the same time blending to the room.
Once this is done properly it is difficult to hear the spacing, and even in cases where you can, it doesn't take away from the music/imaging.
Once this is done properly it is difficult to hear the spacing, and even in cases where you can, it doesn't take away from the music/imaging.