Gex,
No Pics??? Also, I'm sure that second sentence is just missing a comma. It reads more like an apostrophe is missing from "daughters".
Were your drivers already run in? The disk with the strange sound seems like hitting a note that reflects back up the horn or a panel resonance. Did you try that CD with the cabs out into the room?
I think I'll move the Frugel's to the top up my helper's list, so next week. Any changes recommended in the horn for the FE108EZ ? I plan to go supra-baffle, but no deflector since I already have something to use for that. It's nice not to have to do a test cab, so I can go straight to pretty form. I'll build the stock cab with a straight divider in the 1st 2 segments and the mid size chamber. I do want to try some ideas regarding shape and damping inside the CC as my contribution to the group effort.
I've got good concrete corners, so I'll be able to really test bass performance including concrete filled triangular columns for deflector testing.
No Pics??? Also, I'm sure that second sentence is just missing a comma. It reads more like an apostrophe is missing from "daughters".
Were your drivers already run in? The disk with the strange sound seems like hitting a note that reflects back up the horn or a panel resonance. Did you try that CD with the cabs out into the room?
I think I'll move the Frugel's to the top up my helper's list, so next week. Any changes recommended in the horn for the FE108EZ ? I plan to go supra-baffle, but no deflector since I already have something to use for that. It's nice not to have to do a test cab, so I can go straight to pretty form. I'll build the stock cab with a straight divider in the 1st 2 segments and the mid size chamber. I do want to try some ideas regarding shape and damping inside the CC as my contribution to the group effort.
I've got good concrete corners, so I'll be able to really test bass performance including concrete filled triangular columns for deflector testing.
soongsc said:
The Frugel-Horn leaves a lot of room for an individuals artistic take. Goran's (posted above -- Zagreb) i like a lot.
dave
edjosh23
I only have 70 hours on my drivers and Dave put them on the drivers before I bought them.
I will try adding some polyfil to the CC as per your advice.
I have not been a teen for almost thirtyyears but suffer from being a old time bass head and it drove my wife up the wall so I changed my focus.
Thanks for your input.
Dave. I will send you the photos when I get the finish done. I cannot use stain so it will just be a clear finsh. However I have getting ready for winter projects before I get to them.
I did not think I was going to get them done before Xmas so I am pretty happy.
After a little tweaking and and some break in time. I look forward to a long relationship. I really enjoy the quality of sound that they produce.
I only have 70 hours on my drivers and Dave put them on the drivers before I bought them.
I will try adding some polyfil to the CC as per your advice.
I have not been a teen for almost thirtyyears but suffer from being a old time bass head and it drove my wife up the wall so I changed my focus.
Thanks for your input.
Dave. I will send you the photos when I get the finish done. I cannot use stain so it will just be a clear finsh. However I have getting ready for winter projects before I get to them.
I did not think I was going to get them done before Xmas so I am pretty happy.
After a little tweaking and and some break in time. I look forward to a long relationship. I really enjoy the quality of sound that they produce.
Hi John I missed your post.
the drivers were Daves that had 70 hours on them.
Ya I intended on saying my daughter's my wife and I .
I need to figure where they are going in my house and just break them in and I will try that CD again. It was only that one CD that created a strange sound. I listened to several genres over a couple hours and never heard it.
I did not use the supra baffle because it did not go over well with my wife. But I can add a small one later if needed I think.
as far as the deflector I don't want to use them and if I had a listening room then I would.
I would rather lose the bass than the space in this case........
One of the kids decided to poke a hole in one of my fostex boxes while I was installing the other and it went right through the double layer of cardboard and did not pass through the cone.
It left a nice dent and blemish but no hole. I am really glad that I did not have to repair it.
Gex
the drivers were Daves that had 70 hours on them.
Ya I intended on saying my daughter's my wife and I .
I need to figure where they are going in my house and just break them in and I will try that CD again. It was only that one CD that created a strange sound. I listened to several genres over a couple hours and never heard it.
I did not use the supra baffle because it did not go over well with my wife. But I can add a small one later if needed I think.
as far as the deflector I don't want to use them and if I had a listening room then I would.
I would rather lose the bass than the space in this case........
One of the kids decided to poke a hole in one of my fostex boxes while I was installing the other and it went right through the double layer of cardboard and did not pass through the cone.
It left a nice dent and blemish but no hole. I am really glad that I did not have to repair it.
Gex
If the children are small, always keep in mind that drivers look like giant push buttons, so the urge to push them is very strong. Thankfully I learned my lesson with $1.50/ea drivers, although they did manage to nail 6 of them in a pair of arrays.
Hi, i got a chance to listen to edjosh23's horns.
I was amazed at how small the actual enclosure was , i dont know why ..perhaps i just had envisioned something much larger. Great sound out of such a small driver, but this is the first time ive heard a horn design. Im now looking to build my own horns (rons dallas, the frugel, the spawn I dunno yet). My only problem is inability to corner load them "well" in my setup. I think with a nice sealed subwoofer they would make a great pair. Dont think there is any need for a tweeter, thats for certain. Im not a fan of highs to begin with.
I was amazed at how small the actual enclosure was , i dont know why ..perhaps i just had envisioned something much larger. Great sound out of such a small driver, but this is the first time ive heard a horn design. Im now looking to build my own horns (rons dallas, the frugel, the spawn I dunno yet). My only problem is inability to corner load them "well" in my setup. I think with a nice sealed subwoofer they would make a great pair. Dont think there is any need for a tweeter, thats for certain. Im not a fan of highs to begin with.
Quinn said:
That was my first impression too! 😀
Nearly stubbed my toe on the little things when I arrived at Dave's. The sound sure wasn't small though.
Frugel Skeletons
My Frugels are in skeleton form. Time to decide on a supra-baffle shape, since we should be gluing everything up tomorrow.
Some mods to the basic plan are 15mm interior panels and a center divider brace through the first 3 horn segments, so mine will be a bit wider. CSA and segment lengths are to plan. Talk about fun figuring out revised dimensions. I haven't decided how to approach the throat yet, especially with that panel upside down. I went with laminated MDF for the interior panels as a middle of the road choice between plywood and MDF. Should I varnish the interior of the horn pathway?
I'm thinking about rounding the corners before we glue up the sides, since I'll be using 108's and I want to lose as little efficiency as possible through the folds. Ron explained CSA expansion & contraction through the folds creates some heat. Any thoughts?
I should be listening Thursday 😀 , but first more
to do.
My Frugels are in skeleton form. Time to decide on a supra-baffle shape, since we should be gluing everything up tomorrow.
Some mods to the basic plan are 15mm interior panels and a center divider brace through the first 3 horn segments, so mine will be a bit wider. CSA and segment lengths are to plan. Talk about fun figuring out revised dimensions. I haven't decided how to approach the throat yet, especially with that panel upside down. I went with laminated MDF for the interior panels as a middle of the road choice between plywood and MDF. Should I varnish the interior of the horn pathway?
I'm thinking about rounding the corners before we glue up the sides, since I'll be using 108's and I want to lose as little efficiency as possible through the folds. Ron explained CSA expansion & contraction through the folds creates some heat. Any thoughts?
I should be listening Thursday 😀 , but first more
to do.An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Very nice!
By the way, the other day I got curious and decided to do a little measurements in my dorm room. I played 90hz and 35hz tones through my frugels in their regular position in the room, not in corners! The mic was posistioned between the two drivers 1 meter away. 35hz was only -3db from 90hz. Maybe if i have lots of free time this weekend and am not super lazy, I will actually set up the drivers in the lounge and do real measurements using the signla generator on my computer and plots something, very poor mic, but it will do.
Thanks,
Josh
By the way, the other day I got curious and decided to do a little measurements in my dorm room. I played 90hz and 35hz tones through my frugels in their regular position in the room, not in corners! The mic was posistioned between the two drivers 1 meter away. 35hz was only -3db from 90hz. Maybe if i have lots of free time this weekend and am not super lazy, I will actually set up the drivers in the lounge and do real measurements using the signla generator on my computer and plots something, very poor mic, but it will do.
Thanks,
Josh
John: Those braces add an interesting twist. Your enclosures should certainly be inert!
Looking forward to your listening impressions. Are your 108's broken in, and what will you be driving them with?
Best, Don
Looking forward to your listening impressions. Are your 108's broken in, and what will you be driving them with?
Best, Don
you might consider
JohninCR: a centre brace inside the dead space behind the first long length of horn and then fill that section with sand. Easy to do the brace now before the side goes on and a hole at the top inside the cavity so you can sand fill up and damp the dead volume once the side is in place. Regards Moray James.
JohninCR: a centre brace inside the dead space behind the first long length of horn and then fill that section with sand. Easy to do the brace now before the side goes on and a hole at the top inside the cavity so you can sand fill up and damp the dead volume once the side is in place. Regards Moray James.
doorman said:
The center divider was my way of being certain that the pathway was correct. My helper tends to go off on inaccurate tangents. Also, the lower width to height ratio is theoretically beneficial (closer to round), when you use multiple pathways.
Yes 4 of my 5 pairs of 108's are very well used and bargain priced thanks to Ed changing to the 126. My one NIB pair will make for an interesting comparison to a well worn pair.
Re: you might consider
Thanks Moray. I've been planning to use a center brace in both void areas, but leave them open otherwise, because I like the look. I think painting the inside of the voids black will highlight the interesting shape of the horn. I don't like plain rectangles.
A nice thick lead plate would make a great brace in the bottom void, as well as make them even more stable.
moray james said:
Thanks Moray. I've been planning to use a center brace in both void areas, but leave them open otherwise, because I like the look. I think painting the inside of the voids black will highlight the interesting shape of the horn. I don't like plain rectangles.
A nice thick lead plate would make a great brace in the bottom void, as well as make them even more stable.
Opinions requested
The glue is drying on the side panels now, so it's time to decide on the front baffle. The top cap, bottom, and front panels will be solid wood 30mm thick. I want to include the supra-baffle in the front panel as 1 piece, with added thickness on the backside. I drew up some front profiles, and now I'm soliciting opinions. I've all but decided to go with #8, since it has no difficult curves to duplicate, and it has 2 quite different looks depending which is right and left. Also, I think an angular baffle is less likely to clash with the triangular side voids, which might be problematic with a curved front.
The glue is drying on the side panels now, so it's time to decide on the front baffle. The top cap, bottom, and front panels will be solid wood 30mm thick. I want to include the supra-baffle in the front panel as 1 piece, with added thickness on the backside. I drew up some front profiles, and now I'm soliciting opinions. I've all but decided to go with #8, since it has no difficult curves to duplicate, and it has 2 quite different looks depending which is right and left. Also, I think an angular baffle is less likely to clash with the triangular side voids, which might be problematic with a curved front.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I'm stealing that picture for the docs... OK?
I like 3. 7 is much into your casket theme 🙂
dave
I like 3. 7 is much into your casket theme 🙂
dave
Dave,
No problem using the drawings. I thought #3 would look better. In a shorter wider form like with my JC's cab it looks really nice. Maybe a black felt ring aroung the driver is needed for the sonic benefit and to make the driver look better. Refresh the drawings now.
No problem using the drawings. I thought #3 would look better. In a shorter wider form like with my JC's cab it looks really nice. Maybe a black felt ring aroung the driver is needed for the sonic benefit and to make the driver look better. Refresh the drawings now.
Coices Choices Choices
I like a combination of 9 and 11. The tapered waist of 11 and the double thick baffle section of 9.
Good for you
I like a combination of 9 and 11. The tapered waist of 11 and the double thick baffle section of 9.
Good for you
planet10 said:
Smooth is nice, but you hit the nail on the head: I'm amazed when people go to the trouble of flush mounting a driver, then doing a roundover on all the edges (usually of a radius too small to be relevant relative to the baffle size) then mount the driver right smack in the middle of a squarish baffle. Goofy looking asymmetrical, big smooth baffles, go a long way. Dispersing your problems is nice- like instead of drinking a 5th of whiskey a night, having a spliff and a pint 🙂
Would be interesting to go whole hog with the design and do a waveguide/horn in the front a la the big tannoys.
Thanks guys,
Yes, I'm going flush mount routing the recess from the front. I want to get close to 2" radius on the roundovers with probably a total thickness of about 3.5" around the upper rear of the baffle.
While a waveguide might be useful due to the small driver size, I just don't have that capability.
Yes, I'm going flush mount routing the recess from the front. I want to get close to 2" radius on the roundovers with probably a total thickness of about 3.5" around the upper rear of the baffle.
While a waveguide might be useful due to the small driver size, I just don't have that capability.
Thank you everyone for the input. While my camera doesn't do the Cenizaro wood justice, here's the front layer of the supra-baffle. Any ideas for finishing for a woodworking noob? I want to bring out the depth of grain without too much darkening.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
