The Altec A7 always lingers in my mind diyiggy. Edgar tractrix mids are well known for sounding very good. My idea is to build this horn tweak it well before I build the bass cabinet. Thinking of using the horns from 500hz to 4k or so. Off course without building the horn to test, it's all useless thoughts. Lol
But have you an idea of the directivity patern you want ?
why 4k and so close XO from the ears sensibility ?? Could it be not better to use a compression for 500/700 to 10K for instance ?
At least you can also make a Mid-Bass 80 hz to 500/700 direct horn.
Problem is you have to think how to marry both in the XO so think in advance the radiation pattern of each i surmise... or you will hear the cut-off !
But again what has more than other more modern horn an Edgard H in the 500 to 4K ? Don't you want constant directivity than more modern designs allows ?
why 4k and so close XO from the ears sensibility ?? Could it be not better to use a compression for 500/700 to 10K for instance ?
At least you can also make a Mid-Bass 80 hz to 500/700 direct horn.
Problem is you have to think how to marry both in the XO so think in advance the radiation pattern of each i surmise... or you will hear the cut-off !
But again what has more than other more modern horn an Edgard H in the 500 to 4K ? Don't you want constant directivity than more modern designs allows ?
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Honestly no idea till I build it cause its room dependent a window of 30 deg should find fine for my room diyiggy
you mean a 30x30° or a circular horn with 30° patern .... my bet it ill be too much narrow and you will lack of life in the soundstage ! 30° is very narrow if you are not at 1 meter of the peakers for instance like control monitors !
Yes I understand diyiggy. Edgar horn itself has a pretty large window think it does very well at 60 deg. Directivity is also affected by the chosen XO point hence my comment on building it to test first, besides I do sit pretty close to the speakers 2.5 m away max
Hummm I will simulate all of this in your shoes to save tie and monney !
You know you start from the desire o have horns to chalenge an eSL. So think it as a whole project , not a particular 500 to 4000 coming from nowhere. Cause you don't have both the horn and the driver yet... imho 🙂
You know you start from the desire o have horns to chalenge an eSL. So think it as a whole project , not a particular 500 to 4000 coming from nowhere. Cause you don't have both the horn and the driver yet... imho 🙂
That's right without building it, it's all just thoughts which in reality may not perform well in my room. Lol but still the mid horn is the key, must get it sounding right first. For now Im more incline towards using the 3fe22 to test simply because it's available at my end. Off course the simplest route to take is to find a pair of Le5-2. Lol
Cheers diyiggy
Cheers diyiggy
Building an Edgar midrange horn is a nice project, it is what hooked me on horns > 20 years ago. That was a wood/plaster construction with 60 x 40 cm mouth size, driven with a Fostex FE103Sigma, the throat matched the driver roughly.
Nowadays I'm back to cone midranges, after >10 years with CDs, current project is based on Limmer 870, (Limmer 042 is a also a very good horn).
Good luck and I'm sure you'll have a lot of fun with the Edgar horn projects!
Nowadays I'm back to cone midranges, after >10 years with CDs, current project is based on Limmer 870, (Limmer 042 is a also a very good horn).
Good luck and I'm sure you'll have a lot of fun with the Edgar horn projects!
Hi,
What frequency range was your H.H. please ? Why do yu finally return to it but with a compression driver ?
What frequency range was your H.H. please ? Why do yu finally return to it but with a compression driver ?
Hi diyiggy, is your question directed at me?
IIRC I used tge edgar horn with fe103 from about 200 or 250 hz.. but I didn't have much measurement gear back then and listened near field. I used tweeters above but can't recalll the XO freq, sorry. I think no lowpass on the midrange...
I think cone midranges give very dynamic presentation, impact, in reasonable size horns. That's why I'm building around them now. To get some up to date impressions i had a listening comparison of a 2,5 way with tpl150h, a limmer 042 based speaker, a 15" coax with 1.4" cd and a 15" plus bms coax in a Limmer 033. Out of these excellent speakers by the same designer, my clear favourite was the Limmer 042 based one, which uses a 6" PHL (with phase plug in the horn).
IIRC I used tge edgar horn with fe103 from about 200 or 250 hz.. but I didn't have much measurement gear back then and listened near field. I used tweeters above but can't recalll the XO freq, sorry. I think no lowpass on the midrange...
I think cone midranges give very dynamic presentation, impact, in reasonable size horns. That's why I'm building around them now. To get some up to date impressions i had a listening comparison of a 2,5 way with tpl150h, a limmer 042 based speaker, a 15" coax with 1.4" cd and a 15" plus bms coax in a Limmer 033. Out of these excellent speakers by the same designer, my clear favourite was the Limmer 042 based one, which uses a 6" PHL (with phase plug in the horn).
Thank you Gatedriver,
Yest it was. Thank your for your answer. It's not by chance I asked you. I can be wrong but I remember from different testimonials such design was indeed effective but usefull for low bas-low midrange mostly.
I don't know but I surmise it's not the best for the higher frequencies Sumotan is targeting > 500 hz to 4 K Hz. And here better some more up to date horn designs with compression drivers -as you evolved yourself-. In mind: constant directivity with good horn shape for instance.
But anyway the sport seems to me to marry two horns, two drivers, at cut-off at different angles to be able not to hear that XO (on axis, off axis... till 60 to 90° with direct drivers on a baffle, and ?... with horns: same paterns for Low pass & High pass with two horns with beaming towards the listeners because the big center to center when 2 horns, mid + tweet ?
My believing is that to focus on a 500 hz t 4 K hz to make a decision with a standalone horn for a go/no-go ...then planing the rest (upper and lower ways) is a little hasardous and a source of pain? Am I wrong ?
Yest it was. Thank your for your answer. It's not by chance I asked you. I can be wrong but I remember from different testimonials such design was indeed effective but usefull for low bas-low midrange mostly.
I don't know but I surmise it's not the best for the higher frequencies Sumotan is targeting > 500 hz to 4 K Hz. And here better some more up to date horn designs with compression drivers -as you evolved yourself-. In mind: constant directivity with good horn shape for instance.
But anyway the sport seems to me to marry two horns, two drivers, at cut-off at different angles to be able not to hear that XO (on axis, off axis... till 60 to 90° with direct drivers on a baffle, and ?... with horns: same paterns for Low pass & High pass with two horns with beaming towards the listeners because the big center to center when 2 horns, mid + tweet ?
My believing is that to focus on a 500 hz t 4 K hz to make a decision with a standalone horn for a go/no-go ...then planing the rest (upper and lower ways) is a little hasardous and a source of pain? Am I wrong ?
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Of course one should consider the whole system design. How much pain it is ... i guess varies. All designs have compromises.
My last system was a 10" in a front loaded midbass horn, and a 1" compression tweeter in a big wooden elliptical JMLC. Beams too much for me, the coverage angle was too narrow. Bass was 15" in closed boxes.
New system (under construction) uses again 15" in CB, but much better drivers. Then 8" cone (RCF MR8N301) from ~ 400 Hz to 3k in a Limmer 870 horn (phaseplug!), then a 1" (BMS 4552Nd) in an 18sound XR1064. So this gives me about 60 x 40 coverage which seems good for me from my first tests.
You are right, the big challenge is combining several horns.
However, i fondly remember my Edgar midrange horn, it was a very rewarding project that basically sent me on this journey. I will forever be grateful to Bruce Edgar for this.
My last system was a 10" in a front loaded midbass horn, and a 1" compression tweeter in a big wooden elliptical JMLC. Beams too much for me, the coverage angle was too narrow. Bass was 15" in closed boxes.
New system (under construction) uses again 15" in CB, but much better drivers. Then 8" cone (RCF MR8N301) from ~ 400 Hz to 3k in a Limmer 870 horn (phaseplug!), then a 1" (BMS 4552Nd) in an 18sound XR1064. So this gives me about 60 x 40 coverage which seems good for me from my first tests.
You are right, the big challenge is combining several horns.
However, i fondly remember my Edgar midrange horn, it was a very rewarding project that basically sent me on this journey. I will forever be grateful to Bruce Edgar for this.
This choice sound good. 🙂
Too bad 18thSound doesn't products the same horn for medium than the tweetere. for a XO around 700 hz!
The Limer 870 makes me think to the old RCF horn that looked a little like this one with a phase plug too.
The Faital 15PR400 in 50l sealed must be awesome😎 below that.
Too bad 18thSound doesn't products the same horn for medium than the tweetere. for a XO around 700 hz!
The Limer 870 makes me think to the old RCF horn that looked a little like this one with a phase plug too.
The Faital 15PR400 in 50l sealed must be awesome😎 below that.