I would be open to hearing any amp tube or otherwise with high power very very low distorting , no switching distortion, but I suspect we have been past the point of diminishing returns in good amps for decades. I have never had a Bryston, but now I would need 6 channels. IMO The word is distortion, no further descriptors are needed except for marketing.
In my own experience I would concur with this. There is more to say on this but most of it is in the preceding weeks postings. We could lose sight of our tail or maybe I should say tale.
Drivers: solved in 30s
Electronics: solved largely in 60s-80s.
Conventional horns... Nope not stepping in that pile but solved with CD designs in general.
Crossover design: Solved by computers.
Point source, we are watching
Speakers are no mystery good drivers plus computer and brain equals speaker.
Real frontier, real will west ?
Acoustics in general, which will lead to a +-1000 little drivers with +-1000 little computers and DSP amps
Electronics: solved largely in 60s-80s.
Conventional horns... Nope not stepping in that pile but solved with CD designs in general.
Crossover design: Solved by computers.
Point source, we are watching
Speakers are no mystery good drivers plus computer and brain equals speaker.
Real frontier, real will west ?
Acoustics in general, which will lead to a +-1000 little drivers with +-1000 little computers and DSP amps
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Pete, I hear exactly what you're describing when listening with my horns. A friend who also has horns is of the opinion that the aim of most recordings is that the normal listener is not supposed to hear all the details, but the "blended" version that normal speakers give. I'm not sure if that is by design, or not.
The recordings show quite the opposite; the compression driver is slapping you in the face with an onslaught of added harmonic distortion and IMD. The more harmonic content in the source, the worse it gets.
Listen to a big brass and wind section. All acoustically produced. Nothing to remove from recording. If compression driver slaps you in face it is crappy compression driver or crappy combination of compression driver and waveguide.
added distortion ? Cruising along at 1/10th of a watt for 100db ?
True, some stuff sounds bad on a high efficiency system, or a hyper detailed ribbon setup also.
I find Def Leopard sounds bad (even ultradisc), the better the system, the worse it sounds.
But have it while a movie is playing and it sounds better. We need more brain ram.
Norman
True, some stuff sounds bad on a high efficiency system, or a hyper detailed ribbon setup also.
I find Def Leopard sounds bad (even ultradisc), the better the system, the worse it sounds.
But have it while a movie is playing and it sounds better. We need more brain ram.
Norman
I've been out shopping lately for powered speakers, the typical 12/10/8" woofer plus horn with built in amps. Plenty to choose from. I've noticed that almost all use a very shallow horn. They hardly seem deep enough to really load the compression driver.
Is this just the current fad, or is there some good reason for it?
Is this just the current fad, or is there some good reason for it?
less reflections ?
Maybe it is asier to add a bit of eq on the bottom of the tweet than accomodate a larger horn.
Maybe it is asier to add a bit of eq on the bottom of the tweet than accomodate a larger horn.
I'm loathe to object to some of you, but I think that Barleywater does have a point: cheap compression drivers produce quite a lot of nonlinear distortion. Yeah, something in the weight-class of TD4001 with Be diaphragm is unbelievably clean, but then again it costs unbelievable amount of money for just one driver. Cheap compression drivers, so far as I've seen the measurements, distort quite a lot. Horn-loaded domes or planar transducers might give more bang for a buck, especially if far-field performance with high SPL is not required.
I've seen a lot of that in the past few years too, and every measurement of such a device shows excessive response ripple. That was one of the points in the "Uniform Directivity" thread.
I mean, if its shallow enough, it's really just a curved baffle and that's fine, no problem at all. But at some point, the shape begins to matter more, and by that time, if it doesn't provide a good acoustic load, it becomes too reactive. Response suffers, showing excessive ripple.
In my way of thinking, if the horn doesn't provide proper loading, it isn't going to function well on any account. Those "baffle dimple" waveguides all sound like 1970s CD horns to me. Some designers will EQ them in the crossover, but that is a bandaid, in my opinion. Better to shape the horn right in the first place.
I think that it's a lot of fad - "has to have a horn", but "not too big".
I still don't get the "load the compression driver" point of view. IMO loading is irrelevant, we have DSP. If the horn controls the directivity then any "loading" issues can be made up with EQ. First and foremost is directivity control with minimum diffraction creation. A wide shallow device will not work very well with a compression driver although they can work pretty well with a direct radiator.
In one word - reason - I will let Lynn factor this out as I know he will give you a good answer
Barley, if that were the case I would know it. At these levels, the drivers are a boon to mastering. I'm severe, I listen hard. This is not easy to explain. There is a clarity of detail here that is unmistakable.
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"The Emperors distortion is unaudible, The Emperors distortion is inaudible! " Yeah right, and Mp3's, Woofers that plainly see flapping around. Why does psycho-acoustics / perceptual research seem to be mostly used to see what we can get away with? Eventually those inches of "inaudibility" add up! I think we all know that if you "exercise/excurs" that compression driver enough around 400-500 (where I for one think it needs to be) and you *will* have audibility of all sorts of nasties. However if I were doing a commercial speaker, knowing what I do now I might make the higher crossover choice as well. Economics and the tyranee of the female ruling class.(-:
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Pete
Why do your posts always read like I need some sort of secret decoder ring to understand them? Maybe that's it! Could you send me one?
Why do your posts always read like I need some sort of secret decoder ring to understand them? Maybe that's it! Could you send me one?
Yeah
That is where the electrostatic win hands down. If only there was a 3" direct driver composite metal tweeter to say 16KHz with 1/2 mm displacement and Neo magnets symmetrical drive, it is going to avoid a lot of problems. Over 100dB per watt. The projection you get from a CD may soiund good (qualified) but it is not quite real.
What is projected is not a true rectilinear section i.e segment of a true sphere and thus must contain distortion. The less spherical the more audible. This does not even need math explanation
Could Earl take this one up
Horns help the driver as an impedance transformer, no? Isn't that part of what gives horn their high efficiency? The shallow horns sound "blatty" to me. As though there isn't enough throat to properly couple the driver to the mouth.
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