Nah, I just won't be concerned instead. On second thought Bluetooth keyboard and less to say. Better all around.
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Hello, everyone. I have a little question about horns and I hope somebody here knows the answer.
Monsieur Le Cléac’h did a very insightful wavelet analysis of different horns, showing that they all have different sound artifacts (homs, diffraction, reflections). Some had more, some had less, but all had main reflection that was about 3ms late, was a minus 10-20 db and extended from about 2-5 kHz down. So:
1) Could this be heard as a coloration of sound?
2) Could this effect be avoided altogether by using small-ish waveguides working above main reflection frequencies, say above said 2-5 kHz?
Monsieur Le Cléac’h did a very insightful wavelet analysis of different horns, showing that they all have different sound artifacts (homs, diffraction, reflections). Some had more, some had less, but all had main reflection that was about 3ms late, was a minus 10-20 db and extended from about 2-5 kHz down. So:
1) Could this be heard as a coloration of sound?
2) Could this effect be avoided altogether by using small-ish waveguides working above main reflection frequencies, say above said 2-5 kHz?
I'll take a stab.
1. I'd imagine it adds a little aliveness.
2. Sure, but then you are looking at a 3 or 4 way.
1. I'd imagine it adds a little aliveness.
2. Sure, but then you are looking at a 3 or 4 way.
So, theoretically, low-frequency horns add coloration similar to dipoles, only with dipoles the main reflection depends on the distance to the wall, its absorbing and diffusing properties and baffle geometry, and with horns it all depends on the horn used?
For 1., it probably does add aliveness, but hurts detail. Probably the most revealing horn will have the best wavelet.
.
That's a bit offtopic, but has anyone ever analysed Synergy/Unity type of horns with wavelets? I'd imagine they should have a lot of mouth reflections because of their length, but I am really far from being competent on this question and so far I have seen only positive comments on the intelligibility of fine details with Synergy horns.
Why would horns with such different geometries and sizes all have a common reflection at 3 msec? Sounds like a measurement artifact if it's in all the measurements.
Rob🙂
Edit, this post was formerly about the magnificence of fpitas and I went overboard, he could argue with that Hahahahaha.
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Oh no. Now I have to thank everyone individually. Its going to get like the Academy Awards
"I'm so thrilled be here, but before I say another word I have to give HOMage to E.G. the man that had the vision to reimagine the audible..........My eyes just Welter up with tears when I think of all those horns lifted in sacrifice , .......A guy who Bears all for audio, and Mr. SpeakerDave, you can't even say speaker with saying Dave. Tom Danley no jokes here he is the man. My mother and father, my long suffering the ex wives all with same first name "Plaintiff" oh and I just know I'm forgetting someone very very special......
Oh yeah, is there an acoustics forum similar to this one because seriously you guys are great.?
Probably, (If it's artifact from the horns and not something to do with the measuring environment). I think it might depend on SPL. Greater SPL would give more colouration.
Some "secrets",
What I "think" I've learned. Yes I am going to simplify and generalize, horrors
1. Larger horns suffer far less issues. This may be obvious but I'm going to risk stating it. Anything that abruptly terminates or disturbs a wave is a bad unless it is by design and accounted for. Truncated horns are usually truncated for reasons of economy, I know of several great sounding horns from 28 to 39 inches, this is no accident. Lower crossover point etc.
2. At home / studio / monitor SPL levels, the dreaded "air itself distortion" of compression drivers is likely to be an issue only when spl levels have exceeded anything a direct radiator could produce perhaps a non issue.
More to come.
What I "think" I've learned. Yes I am going to simplify and generalize, horrors
1. Larger horns suffer far less issues. This may be obvious but I'm going to risk stating it. Anything that abruptly terminates or disturbs a wave is a bad unless it is by design and accounted for. Truncated horns are usually truncated for reasons of economy, I know of several great sounding horns from 28 to 39 inches, this is no accident. Lower crossover point etc.
2. At home / studio / monitor SPL levels, the dreaded "air itself distortion" of compression drivers is likely to be an issue only when spl levels have exceeded anything a direct radiator could produce perhaps a non issue.
More to come.
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SPL inside small sealed woofer can easily reach 150dB; this is reflected in high distortion measured outside of speaker, even if woofer is driving well within linear range of driver suspension.
Yes of course you are right, I am generally speaking of HF drivers more specifically compression hf's, which do have the headroom. That being said it is a lot easier to get away with it "down below decks"
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It is a fact that compression driver monitors instead of creating distortion, have a pretty unique habit of making it more audible on recordings. Yet another reason I am a fan of these type speakers for this duty.
A recording is a recording; harmonic profiles of instruments are in large part the definition of an instruments sound.
High fidelity is recreating recorded waveform without change to spectrum and at higher level without changing waveform envelope.
Compression driver adding distortion is revealing nothing about recording; other than recording's ability to produce distorted output with compression driver.
You've used the four letter f*** word; this requires reference.
Compression driver doesn't have head room; only propensity to distort at ever higher levels. The higher the level, the greater the volume of air that is driven into non linear behavior.
High fidelity is recreating recorded waveform without change to spectrum and at higher level without changing waveform envelope.
Compression driver adding distortion is revealing nothing about recording; other than recording's ability to produce distorted output with compression driver.
You've used the four letter f*** word; this requires reference.
Compression driver doesn't have head room; only propensity to distort at ever higher levels. The higher the level, the greater the volume of air that is driven into non linear behavior.
Maybe some of us are HOStage to fortune. Higher Order Sssssssss. SNR has not been mentioned for ages. The noisy valve we forgot all those darned busy electrons. True HOMS may be awash in the bckground. Should we add white sound to all our stuff to smother the higher odd order garbage. Pay bucks for low noise 6SN7GTB loiw noise, in the pre
Sticking to my guns about efficient horn speakers being more revealing of distortion on recordings. Whatever the mechanism, it is absolutely striking! I see some records being used as reference by some of the guys that plainly have *high harmonic distortion* which is nearly inaudible (masked) on direct radiators, such as Genelecs B&Ws etc. Freinds this is not conjecture, this is *unmasked* practically slaps you in the face. What ever distortion mechanism compression drivers are guilty of it pales compared to directs at monitor levels. Same thimg happens with reverb tails you can damn near "count" the pre delay timing ms. on spatial ballads, it gets "washed" in on flat speakers. Again, I'm no audiophile, speakers to me are hammers and nails. Horn speakers let me build a better looking house.
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