Scots English is great.
Remains one of the funniest comedy series on tv. (also available on Netflix)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p02jblfl/still-game-series-1-1-flittin?seriesId=b00w1g9y
Remains one of the funniest comedy series on tv. (also available on Netflix)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p02jblfl/still-game-series-1-1-flittin?seriesId=b00w1g9y
This 'would have...', 'then...' conditional construction is virtually absent in both written and spoken British English, sounding very odd to our ears, where we use simply 'had...'.
Is it considered correct in US grammar or is it a colloquialism?
To me, it just sounds written backwards
"You would have known what I was referring to in that, had you taken the time and made the effort to read the entire post"
This is how I would word it in English or my mother tongue, but you folks are the native speakers, so please correct if needed
"You would have known what I was referring to in that, had you taken the time and made the effort to read the entire post"
This is how I would word it in English or my mother tongue, but you folks are the native speakers, so please correct if needed
If I Had. When talking about something that didn't happen in the past, many English speakers use the conditional perfect (if I would have done) when they should be using the past perfect (if I had done).
www.grammarbook,com
would have is similar to might have done - ie you didn't do it.
Whereas had implies you did or didn't do it.
Languages are only developed with sufficient precision. It is about the verbalization of (differentiation of) world, about social interaction with each other and with world.
There is therefore no right or wrong or culturally higher or lower;-)-;
An example for the verbalized differentiation of world:
"It is common in electronics to differentiate between class A, A/B, B and whatever else. Audio relevant, I recommend distinguishing between SE, Push Pull and whatever else. When I read class A, I always have to check whether it is SE or PP to know what I can expect in terms of sound, audio.
Basically, the PP category would also have to be differentiated in order to differentiate audio in terms of: pp (non complementary transistors), complementary transistors pp (half-wave symmetrical), complementary transistors pp half-wave asymmetrical... Because this is also where the answers lie with regard to audio suitability.
My recommendation with best intentions;-)"
There is therefore no right or wrong or culturally higher or lower;-)-;
An example for the verbalized differentiation of world:
"It is common in electronics to differentiate between class A, A/B, B and whatever else. Audio relevant, I recommend distinguishing between SE, Push Pull and whatever else. When I read class A, I always have to check whether it is SE or PP to know what I can expect in terms of sound, audio.
Basically, the PP category would also have to be differentiated in order to differentiate audio in terms of: pp (non complementary transistors), complementary transistors pp (half-wave symmetrical), complementary transistors pp half-wave asymmetrical... Because this is also where the answers lie with regard to audio suitability.
My recommendation with best intentions;-)"
I see no difference whatsoever in these two sentences:
"If you would have taken the time and effort to read the entire post, then you would have known exactly what I was referring to in it."
"You would have known what I was referring to in that, had you taken the time and made the effort to read the entire post"
They both say exactly the same thing, just in different styles. There is no right or wrong here and both exhibit perfectly correct grammar.
I prefer the "If, then" style because I think it makes the point a little stronger. But that's just my personal opinion.
According to Douglas Adams, the main problem with time travel is that it requires complicated extra verb tenses. I'm starting to understand that he was right.
Sometimes words are confusing.The bank robber was wearing a baklava!
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...QtwJ6BAgNEAI&usg=AOvVaw18MzJ13C_fSuRmDDk5nz6w
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...QtwJ6BAgNEAI&usg=AOvVaw18MzJ13C_fSuRmDDk5nz6w
Except when it comes to legal instruments -- like an indenture for a corporate bond, lease etc. A misplaced comma in the bond indenture for NVF Corporation (National Vulcanized Fiber) resulted in that debt instrument being afforded a lien on the assets of the company. The issuer thought that they were general unsecured obligations of the company. Saw the same thing in the offering memorandum for a preferred share deal of a Canadian steel company.
I have a friend, now retired, former partner at an NYC law firm. Every year one of the partners "educates" the new associates on the proper usage of "that" and "which"....etc.
My view is the following.
It seems that you have opened a thread about the correct use of the English language on an International Audio Forum where everyone is required to write in English, but not everyone is a native English speaker.
You claim that you correct everyone (especially young people) who make mistakes in speaking and that this thing drives you crazy and you would like to put an end to this.
I asked you how you plan to put an end to something like this and you answered me in an evasive and timid way, self-proclaiming yourself not only capable of understanding and wanting, but even capable of being able to carry out the task you have set yourself even without having any specific competence.
Please note that if I were similar as you appear in the posts you write I would answer you as such a presumptuous attitude deserves, but I'm not like you and therefore I'll not answer you as I think your self-proclamations of competence on practically any topic I've heard from you so far would deserve.
By the way, I use Google Translate in order to post on the Forum,
So if you read something that drives you nuts, complain to Google, not to me.
Frankly, I don't know what use a thread like this would be to either native English speakers or non-native speakers.
Surely there's nothing to be learned, and there's no shortage of objections to your own answers, so who should you trust with the authenticity of what's being said?
You?
And why?
While you're at it, try to put a stop to any kind of change in society that you don't like, let's see how you do.
The fact is that English is considered the official language in several scientific disciplines (Medicine, Computer Science, etc.) and this obviously inevitably creates mixtures in the communication between people around the world.
Generally speaking, reactionaries do not tolerate mixtures or changes, but it appears obvious that this cannot be stopped in any way, and even just thinking about it in my opinion identifies a certain type of mentality that is self-explanatory.
Of course, nothing in the world will ever be able to prevent or even to stop mixtures or news or changes from happening.
Even in languages and even between fellow countrymen.
Despite those who claim to know it all.
Generally speaking, reactionaries do not tolerate mixtures or changes, but it appears obvious that this cannot be stopped in any way, and even just thinking about it in my opinion identifies a certain type of mentality that is self-explanatory.
Of course, nothing in the world will ever be able to prevent or even to stop mixtures or news or changes from happening.
Even in languages and even between fellow countrymen.
Despite those who claim to know it all.
Language as an instrument for asserting the interests of a few emperors;-? As a sign of globalization, in different making, collectivization, fascization...-?
Now that things have settled out a bit in this thread, and at the risk of throwing "pearls before swine", I'll share one.
I have a fairly strong attachment to this since it was the last memo of probably the most impressively bright person that I've ever had the pleasure of working around. He was director of all the most senior engineers ("Systems Engineering") in a very successful aerospace engineering company...a matrix management organization where technical expertise had more than equal say in an engineer's career advancement.
I notice that engineers as a group tend to be a stubborn lot (at least where I come from). They seem to take particular pride in employing poor spelling and grammar in their official communications...but not where I worked where that kind of behavior would put you on a performance improvement plan and cause serious career longevity issues. We're talking real attention to detail--tossed in with one of the driest senses of humor one could ever be targeted with. It was, actually, quite an inspiring experience.
I made A's in English composition courses at University (I was told this was unusual for an engineering major), but my writing style and attention to detail greatly improved while working there. This was no accident.
Without further ado:
I have a fairly strong attachment to this since it was the last memo of probably the most impressively bright person that I've ever had the pleasure of working around. He was director of all the most senior engineers ("Systems Engineering") in a very successful aerospace engineering company...a matrix management organization where technical expertise had more than equal say in an engineer's career advancement.
I notice that engineers as a group tend to be a stubborn lot (at least where I come from). They seem to take particular pride in employing poor spelling and grammar in their official communications...but not where I worked where that kind of behavior would put you on a performance improvement plan and cause serious career longevity issues. We're talking real attention to detail--tossed in with one of the driest senses of humor one could ever be targeted with. It was, actually, quite an inspiring experience.
I made A's in English composition courses at University (I was told this was unusual for an engineering major), but my writing style and attention to detail greatly improved while working there. This was no accident.
Without further ado:
I was in English SAT as a Junior in High School... at a time when SAT courses were rare and usually only reserved for seniors.
My luck, as such, was the end result of growing up in the Old Country where Castilian grammar skills were taught. Those skills transferred easily to English and then my American High School emphasized the five paragraph essay format: Read books and write essays about them... four per quarter. With extra credit for more.
Writing is fun. I love the composition. Breaking up long paragraphs which expose on some topic then followed by a staccato, bam! Bam!, group of very short paragraphs to bring action and fast "movement" to the flow of logic being expressed. Good writing is based, IMHO, in developing a style that intermingles action with exposition. That keeps the reader interested and the brain agile.
For sure I despise boring writers that go on for page long paragraphs with tons of semicolons, and run on sentences that drone on and on and on. As if the writer was being paid by the word. Hmmm?
In technical writing, I love the use of the ordered and bulleted lists. Numbered paragraphs are also a fantastic invention. They are a very direct way of graphically ordering the communication and facilitate cross-correlation. Just as we do in Physics and Math proofs.
I think lawyers do that too. But, again IMHO, reading that is like watching paint dry on a humid day.
In prose, commas are important to express parallelism in a row, as in logic that goes: A or B or C.... as well as A and B and C. In the latter case using the last and in lieu of the commas. But doing so requires some level of expertise that many people seem to lack. Hence the technical writer's use of bulleted and ordered lists. An idea stolen by the marketing guys in their wonderful, ugh!, use of Excel and Web development tools.
At work we check for such grammar during peer reviews. We typically open a common defect and we all add our comments in there. Otherwise it becomes noise. For sure we don't want to give the same weight to style and functional comments.. Unless, naturally, someone used Esperanto.
My luck, as such, was the end result of growing up in the Old Country where Castilian grammar skills were taught. Those skills transferred easily to English and then my American High School emphasized the five paragraph essay format: Read books and write essays about them... four per quarter. With extra credit for more.
Writing is fun. I love the composition. Breaking up long paragraphs which expose on some topic then followed by a staccato, bam! Bam!, group of very short paragraphs to bring action and fast "movement" to the flow of logic being expressed. Good writing is based, IMHO, in developing a style that intermingles action with exposition. That keeps the reader interested and the brain agile.
For sure I despise boring writers that go on for page long paragraphs with tons of semicolons, and run on sentences that drone on and on and on. As if the writer was being paid by the word. Hmmm?
In technical writing, I love the use of the ordered and bulleted lists. Numbered paragraphs are also a fantastic invention. They are a very direct way of graphically ordering the communication and facilitate cross-correlation. Just as we do in Physics and Math proofs.
I think lawyers do that too. But, again IMHO, reading that is like watching paint dry on a humid day.
In prose, commas are important to express parallelism in a row, as in logic that goes: A or B or C.... as well as A and B and C. In the latter case using the last and in lieu of the commas. But doing so requires some level of expertise that many people seem to lack. Hence the technical writer's use of bulleted and ordered lists. An idea stolen by the marketing guys in their wonderful, ugh!, use of Excel and Web development tools.
At work we check for such grammar during peer reviews. We typically open a common defect and we all add our comments in there. Otherwise it becomes noise. For sure we don't want to give the same weight to style and functional comments.. Unless, naturally, someone used Esperanto.
Last edited:
". If you visit France, take a phrase book to deal with taxi drivers, who will be Vietnamese speaking English with a French accent."
Then in Barcelona the taxi drivers are either Pakistani or Moroccans... they all speak Castilian and Catalan and hate each other. It makes for entertaining rides in heavy traffic... hint: you never get bored.
"French is tricky"
True. I ported some French software once. All the file, function and variable names were in French.. and the design... stunk like fromage.
"What you find is that the space required for English is always least"
Very true. Most efficient use of words.
German [...] allows for bewildering concatenations ofadjectives and nouns to manufacture words. This gives things likeFeuerwagonversicherungsgesellschaft
Currently I'm verifying German hardware and firmware. Very true. He should have noted the German Engineering tendency to waaay over complicate things matches their noun constructs.
Then in Barcelona the taxi drivers are either Pakistani or Moroccans... they all speak Castilian and Catalan and hate each other. It makes for entertaining rides in heavy traffic... hint: you never get bored.
"French is tricky"
True. I ported some French software once. All the file, function and variable names were in French.. and the design... stunk like fromage.
"What you find is that the space required for English is always least"
Very true. Most efficient use of words.
German [...] allows for bewildering concatenations ofadjectives and nouns to manufacture words. This gives things likeFeuerwagonversicherungsgesellschaft
Currently I'm verifying German hardware and firmware. Very true. He should have noted the German Engineering tendency to waaay over complicate things matches their noun constructs.