I have built several PCs over the years, using windows, Linux and even Hackintosh. I have to mention here the Mac Mini M1. This has been a game changer for me. My use case is playing upsampled music using HQPlayer. I use a remote computer located in the basement that sends the data to a network player connected to my audio system.
the amazing thing is that the Mac Mini never sleeps which means that I don’t have to deal with the perennial problem of waking the machine up and invariably forgetting to go down and put it back to sleep. I first thought there was something wrong with the machine that it would not sleep. Some people on the net claimed the Mac Mini does not need to sleep. Sure enough my “Killawatt” showed the MM uses just 3 watts at idle.
the amazing thing is that the Mac Mini never sleeps which means that I don’t have to deal with the perennial problem of waking the machine up and invariably forgetting to go down and put it back to sleep. I first thought there was something wrong with the machine that it would not sleep. Some people on the net claimed the Mac Mini does not need to sleep. Sure enough my “Killawatt” showed the MM uses just 3 watts at idle.
This week I commissioned two new Win XP systems in less time than it took to turn-off the obvious MS Spyware in a new Win10 machine.
My "biggest" problem was that the aftermarket power supply for the 2009 Dell Mini-10 craps-up AM radio in the whole house, and I had to get a quality Dell supply for a later machine and kludge the plug.
I can't remember the last time one of my WinXP machines pooped the bed. They run 3 to 7 years before major hardware failure. Last time a fan so deeply buried in a netbook that I got another machine instead. Before that a beautiful Dell 15" UXGA laptop from 2002 finally wore the rust off the platters.
My "biggest" problem was that the aftermarket power supply for the 2009 Dell Mini-10 craps-up AM radio in the whole house, and I had to get a quality Dell supply for a later machine and kludge the plug.
I can't remember the last time one of my WinXP machines pooped the bed. They run 3 to 7 years before major hardware failure. Last time a fan so deeply buried in a netbook that I got another machine instead. Before that a beautiful Dell 15" UXGA laptop from 2002 finally wore the rust off the platters.
My primary PC at home does use a fanless motherboard with soldered-on Intel Celeron N3150 (quad core 1,60GHz), 8 Gb Ram, Windows 7, 4Tb sata SSD. It is powered by a good quality external 12V 3A DC power supply and is paired with a 2K 27'' monitor. This is a fully obsolete system ad I don't recomend it at all as general purpose system, but it works well for audio and non-CPU bound applications due to the lack of mechanical and electrical noise and the very low power consumption that enables always-on use without energy waste. It draws less power than my internet router. Windows 7 is lacking important security features and does not support several popular applications anymore, so I am discuraging non-IT people to use it. My daily job is IT related, so I use or manage almost all currently available commercial platforms. Windows is obviously the worst of them all on a technical standpoint, simply because it is the default mainstream commercial OS. Anything worse than Windows has died long time ago. The alternatives are better, at least on one aspect, but the advantages for the specific purpose they are selected need to outweight the big, big drawback of not being the mainstream. The overhelming majority of people is interested to applications, and sometimes to easy information sharing. They are not interested on the operating system or the technology. Unless Windows becomes a big hassle, they will use it because most people do the same, and it is the easiest to source. The same argument is true for competing OS and plattorms on specific applications/industries where Windows is not the mainstream. To be completely fair, according to my experience, a major issue of Windows has always been the poor and user-unfriendly choice of defaults. A properly centrally managed desktop that has been purged from the time and resource-wasting and distracting components is almost comparable to the desktop experience of the competing platforms, provided that the underlining hardware is recent and does have enough resources to compensate for the lack of code optimization. The Windows platform is a good choice for managed desktops because it does have very good automation and management features, that are hard to match with other platforms. Unfortunately, many PC's are sold with Windows 10 or 11 but aren't capable to run it properly or are poorly installed with spyware/unwanted software. Linux desktop does not have this issue but, generally speaking, does have device driver and component dependences issues instead (it is improving over time). The new Apple Risc platform does obviously have the most modern computer architecture, and the user experience is better than average, but it is still far from perfection.
A financial computer should be just that - the ONLY thing it gets used for. Any time you click on or download ANYTHING in the name of entertainment you run the risk of your machine being corrupted and some third party stealing information off of it. Before a security patch can be issued. Most of my known computer infections could be traced to looking up words to songs. Something one might actually DO, even when not looking for trouble. A couple of those happened to be ones I had CDs for - with the Sony root kit that caused them to mysteriously stop playing in older players (And the FBI anti-copy warnings on them). Coincidence? I quit looking up the words anymore - and even buying CDs. I don’t need to spend a couple hours cleaning up a computer that barely functions anymore. If I pick up something from DIYAudio, it hasn’t caused enough problems with this iPad to junk it yet.
THIS machine is full of fake misleading and misdirecting information. So is the other one that routinely connects to the internet. Let ‘em have it.
Another reason to run Linux... No need to worry about any of that.
My favourite was the time a Windows dialog popped up informing me my system was vurnerable to whatever... I was in Linux and instantly knew it was a fake dialog.
My favourite was the time a Windows dialog popped up informing me my system was vurnerable to whatever... I was in Linux and instantly knew it was a fake dialog.
Windows- a diabolical collection of crap cooked together by some fiend with his own 3 hands
Mac OS- it should be great, it’s got bsd behind it but don’t get to happy our fruit filled, gentrified implementation will make it useless to you.
Linux-….hold on have to recompile, wait do Linux drivers for this exist? What’s intuitive? What do they call that? Oh well at least I can browse, about as useful as a chrome book….If I wanted to use the command line I would have loaded bsd…
Extensive experience has shown that they are all crap, unable to progress or keep up with advancements in hardware. I used to rail against Microsoft then my boss pointed out if these OS worked better we wouldn’t have jobs
At least you can put your apple to sleep, windows has spent 30 years not figuring that out
A favorite classic from the internet past...
Mac OS- it should be great, it’s got bsd behind it but don’t get to happy our fruit filled, gentrified implementation will make it useless to you.
Linux-….hold on have to recompile, wait do Linux drivers for this exist? What’s intuitive? What do they call that? Oh well at least I can browse, about as useful as a chrome book….If I wanted to use the command line I would have loaded bsd…
Extensive experience has shown that they are all crap, unable to progress or keep up with advancements in hardware. I used to rail against Microsoft then my boss pointed out if these OS worked better we wouldn’t have jobs
At least you can put your apple to sleep, windows has spent 30 years not figuring that out
A favorite classic from the internet past...
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Unless you bought a pricey Dell in the early 2000's. they literally pooped electrolytic goo all over the motherboard.
I have several machines that started out as XP or Vista machines and are still going strong today with their original hardware. They are now W7 or W10 machines except for a 4th gen core i5 that I put Manjaro. In the last 6 years or so I have seen one old motherboard die, one 6 year old SanDisk SSD just completely quit without warning and a couple old (5 to 8 years) hard drives begin to show errors in testing, so I replaced every HD with over 5 years on it, or got the critical data off, and made multiple backups of everything else.
You recommended Manjaro some time ago so I built the core i5 box and played with it for several days trying to get either of the 15 year old sound cards to work. Eventually I lost my patience so that PC sits in a corner of the basement calling for attention every so often. I don't know what it will do next. There is some, but not much music creation software for Linux, and one DAW (Ardour) that I know of, so even if it worked, properly it would involve a learning curve to actually use it. I'm old and stuck in my ways and since I started out on Windows 1.3, and GEM before Windows existed, I'm unfortunately likely a lifer.
My favorite OS was OS2, especially OS2 Warp connect 4.X. I was a beta tester on Warp 3 and Warp 4. The IBM guys knew that it was going to be a trip every time I called the 800 number.
This guy seems enthusiastic and creates some good music with all open source software, but he is one of few.
I can't remember ever having any issues with any version of Windows on my computers. I've had problems when building my own computer with hardware that didn't like other hardware I used, but that wasn't windows. And I guess that is a 'problem' that Apple users wouldn't ever have.
Most of the windows complaints I hear are from people that bought way too cheap of a computer. I guess that could be considered Microsoft's fault for letting their OS be installed on some of the crap that people build/buy. But I'll take the ability to tinker in exchange for having to hear people complain that their bargain computer sucks or the one they installed everything they could find on runs slowly. If everyone paid what a Mac machine costs for their PCs I'd think there wouldn't be many complaints at all about performance or glitches. It is like buying a 20Hp car and complaining that it is dangerous when merging on a freeway.
I generally find that PCs in the 600-900 dollar range for basic uses last me at least a decade without issues. Some people won't ever listen to me and keep buying $350 ones and they continually complain about issues. Granted I bought a refurb for just over $100, added more memory, a SS drive and a video card and it has been running Blueiris camera monitoring software for a couple years with no issues and with processing 8 cameras it only draws about 25 watts.
Most of the windows complaints I hear are from people that bought way too cheap of a computer. I guess that could be considered Microsoft's fault for letting their OS be installed on some of the crap that people build/buy. But I'll take the ability to tinker in exchange for having to hear people complain that their bargain computer sucks or the one they installed everything they could find on runs slowly. If everyone paid what a Mac machine costs for their PCs I'd think there wouldn't be many complaints at all about performance or glitches. It is like buying a 20Hp car and complaining that it is dangerous when merging on a freeway.
I generally find that PCs in the 600-900 dollar range for basic uses last me at least a decade without issues. Some people won't ever listen to me and keep buying $350 ones and they continually complain about issues. Granted I bought a refurb for just over $100, added more memory, a SS drive and a video card and it has been running Blueiris camera monitoring software for a couple years with no issues and with processing 8 cameras it only draws about 25 watts.
Try a modern Linux distro... What you describe about Linux hasn't been a thing in 10 years for me. The last time I had something that didn't work in Linux out of the box, I installed the broadcom-wl package and everything worked.
Windows will sleep, Linux will sleep. You just need to configure the UEFI properly. The fact you're afraid / opposed to CLI speaks volumes - IMHO people who can't use CLI or embrace it shouldn't have a computer. By extension, same goes for cars - if you can't drive stick, take transit or stay home. Just my opinion - I could be wrong. 😛
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I used to run Warp. I used to work for IBM, too.
I keep forgetting your hardware you are trying to use is so outdated... I will say that my Asus Xonar Essence STX from 2008 was working flawlessly until I sold it last weel... 14 years old but it was PCI-e.
You must have done more than just CPU upgrade - more like the whole hardware setup. It's two totally different sockets, so new motherboard too, maybe new ram, GPU. What did you really need all that power for anyway?
The 8700K is still a power house of a CPU. Are you rendering big heavy graphics and drawing huge 3D drawings in autocad or solid works?
Further.... never change anything else but RAM or a GPU when running with windows. On most Linux distros, you can almost put the system drive in any PC hardware config, and it will boot pretty easily. Windows ties its connection with the hardware pretty solid - even though it can work out in a few occasions.... you will run into trouble very easily.
This is not as true as it was with Windows 7 and before... MS realizes people with systems that aren't Dell or the like but are made from components upgrade their systems... I even had a Windows 10 installation continue to work and be activated after switching the system from a intel 2700k to an AMD R7 2700X. The only thing in the system that was original to the install was the SSD that Windows was running from.
Just saying, it's not as much of a hassle as it used to be. Still not as streamlined as Linux though 🙂
Just saying, it's not as much of a hassle as it used to be. Still not as streamlined as Linux though 🙂
True... I only did it ones, to have the system running with some software that was to tricky to reinstall.
Linux Mint can be installed and updated in around an hour, and then I simply copy the files for Firefox and Thunderbird - and then you're up and running again. Takes a bit longer with windows, which can take hours to simply update after install.
I still run an old used delided 4790K with 980 TI - why really upgrade - unless you really are addicted on the "fun" of it and a bit of power savings during gaming? GPU is impossible to get a hold on for 2 years now, and all games still run fine in 1080 with pretty good detail. Higher resolution and all the fancy graphics can be fun, but the cost in upgrading is HUGE, and who sees a tiny reflection detail in a game where you race around? New monitor, ram, cpu, gpu and mb... I could buy a second car for that kind of money - and I live in Denmark with 180% taxes on cars 🤣
The 4790K is still a good chip. I still use mine nearly every day. As I stated earlier with a super lousy GT430 graphics card it still scores in the 32nd percentile on your PC vs the world, and 50 something percentile with a good mid range GTX1050 graphics card. These numbers are at the standard clock speed with the stock Intel cooler. I did have it overclocked to just below the point where errors happened when I used it for video rendering.
Please read b4 u reply, those assumptions are incorrect I have many instances of Linux and bsd running without a gui interface, I’ve been a network engineer for over 2 decades, I do not have a lack experience with modern Linux my issues are with Linux gui’s, and the fact apple treats it’s bsd cl like a dirty trade secret…also after going on about how well Linux works out of the box (for users not really but certainly not for engineers) you go on about how windows will sleep with just a little work? The success rate at getting windows to sleep properly and constantly is very low, on new factory built pc or home built computers to this day, if the apple sleep function is the standard. Also I completely disagree with you about the CL it is a tool for engineers and power users, to need to use it for hardware installation or most application installation/configuration is not progress at this point. Most normal users should never have to interface with the CL and if they do this shows a lack of progress in OS in general. Most people who have taken time to understand a computer at command line terms do not want this to change, why? First it represents a secret club, you know what’s going on under the hood etc…Second it represents the idea that the machine cannot be used to manipulate or control us covertly as this will be detected by those in the know. Today this idea has been subverted by technology, most computing is done on devices which will have very limited under the hood access. Now that we have lost the thread the real question is how long before skynet? J/K, the ghost has always been in the machine
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We will have to disagree on this one... Your experiences don't line up with mine. I should clarify I mean Linux based on Arch... I have found a lot of distros that are crap out of the box where you need to "fix" everything so I get what you mean.
Of course this is a DIY site, so it's expected that people on here do things themselves. Not just audio, but many of us build our own computers, fix our own cars, appliances, etc. CLI is a natural tool.
"yay -Syyu --devel"
is much nicer and faster than loading up "Add/Remove software" and clicking a bunch of buttons.
My background working for IBM, Microsoft, Siemens, Toshiba etc fixing the problems of idiots might make me biased though 😀 It also helps that my first computer ran CP/M 80, and the next several ran DOS. I even ran a BBS when I was a kid.
Of course this is a DIY site, so it's expected that people on here do things themselves. Not just audio, but many of us build our own computers, fix our own cars, appliances, etc. CLI is a natural tool.
"yay -Syyu --devel"
is much nicer and faster than loading up "Add/Remove software" and clicking a bunch of buttons.
My background working for IBM, Microsoft, Siemens, Toshiba etc fixing the problems of idiots might make me biased though 😀 It also helps that my first computer ran CP/M 80, and the next several ran DOS. I even ran a BBS when I was a kid.
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The phone calls keep reminding me to renew my car extended warranty. The newest car in the place is a 2002, came with a 90-day(!) warranty.. a little late to be renewing.
That 'beautiful Dell 15" UXGA laptop from 2002' still runs fine (with a less-old HDD). Yes, I know the laptops are built entirely apart from the desktops.
Yes. It wasn't mine so I didn't play much with it, but the Warp 3 on the Dean's network had stability MS did not find until very late in XP days. That's easy to find on eBay, but Warp 4 is not.
I must say that this newish Win10 machine is less annoying than I thought it would be (I expected to replace the SSD and install Win7). No, it has now taken my "essential" Win-ware, even PSpice 9.1 and PaintShopPro 7 (both 2000).
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OTOH, Win10 is remarkably stupid.
I had a well-known tool, Speccy from CCCleaner/Pirform, on a thumbdrive. I went to drag it onto the Win10 machine, and got a pop-up about "Hacktool32 detected". Not only blocked the drag-drop, it removed the file, gone, vanished. No way to say "OK!"
The explanation directed me to a "Report":
Uh. that paper is from 2012, specifically two quarters of 2012. In computer years, that is like the 1918 flu today. And does not say why it panicked when it saw Speccy. Which does extract the Windows installation key. But the risk is all to MS, not me.
FWIW, I then got Speccy from the CCCleaner site and it installed without complaint.
I had a well-known tool, Speccy from CCCleaner/Pirform, on a thumbdrive. I went to drag it onto the Win10 machine, and got a pop-up about "Hacktool32 detected". Not only blocked the drag-drop, it removed the file, gone, vanished. No way to say "OK!"
The explanation directed me to a "Report":
Uh. that paper is from 2012, specifically two quarters of 2012. In computer years, that is like the 1918 flu today. And does not say why it panicked when it saw Speccy. Which does extract the Windows installation key. But the risk is all to MS, not me.
FWIW, I then got Speccy from the CCCleaner site and it installed without complaint.
Hence, it is good. A stable system. No more troubles from updates.
I thought about buying the 10100F at that time, since that chip is actually very cheap and very close, in terms of score, to the 4790K. But then I had to buy new MB too, and I wanted to try the overclock hype. Use a big e-sport cooler and the CPU runs stable now for over 2 years at 4,6GHz at around 45 degrees on normal load like surfing.
The 980 TI is power hungry when gaming - around 300W.... but do pull everything like the Witcher 3, RDR2, GTA5, Max Payne 3, Satisfatory with most details at around a minimum of 70 fps. Luckily Artic cooling has made a 3 fan cooler for the cad, that got the temp down to a bit under melting 🤣
But two years a go a 1070 that would maybe pull 100W less for the same performance, would still cost 2-3 times as much as the 980 TI - and I don't play THAT much 🤓