Still curious about consumer workloads where a 12th generation CPU provides an "Ah, that's better" user experience. Besides games.
Compile source... encode video... do 3D rendering... calculate prime numbers...
I do the first one...
Maybe thats why its running without any problems
I have several Macs for work, and several Chromebooks for casual use. Never any problems.
And I'm not interested in being my own IT support (or for anyone else). Why anyone puts up with
poor software is beyond me.
Nope, Windows holds the gold, silver, and bronze for pure crap.
Extensive personal experience since Windows 1.0, and will not be persuaded otherwise.
Not to mention the company's traditional sleazy behavior.
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I agree with you, rayma... I will conceed that modern Windows works much better than it did in the past though. Still trash compared to Linux IMHO.
Yeah, anyone running Win 7 (like me) should have third party security software running in the background.
i7-8700K processor is a rocket-ship compared to what I'm running (Quad Core Q9550). 🙂
jeff
I should add that I just loaded a 1.3GB Wav file into audacity, selected all, and Normalized to -1db within 3 seconds... Screw waiting.
There's no excuse for any operating system to cause problems, waste time, or work poorly and unreliably.
My time is much more valuable to me, than having to put up with infuriating crap. The more commonly used
programs are cross-platform now, so there's little incentive to use Windows other than the initial PC cost.
Having seen this up close and personal for an extended period of time, Windows is actually very expensive
to the end user in terms of lost productivity. Any purchase cost differential is quickly made up by the support cost
and down time, which are ongoing rather than just once. And if you do all that for yourself, your time is not free.
You've just been trained like a lab rat by MS to think all that is normal.
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When I worked for Microsoft doing corporate/government/military support, it was infuriating, because I actually had to fix their issue whereas I didn't have these issues since I did a toast and reinstall every three months to keep the machine fresh. I even resorted to running Windows Fundamentals for Legacy PCs to get some speed out of the machine.
No more. I switched to Linux as my everyday opsys in 2009. Only the latest games and other DRM ridden software require Windows now. I can even play GTA5 on Linux now 🙂
Even now, I'm sampling a record in the background in a zsh terminal using arecord 🙂
No more. I switched to Linux as my everyday opsys in 2009. Only the latest games and other DRM ridden software require Windows now. I can even play GTA5 on Linux now 🙂
Even now, I'm sampling a record in the background in a zsh terminal using arecord 🙂
An expert, maybe, but not well versed in Intel CPU chips used for the last 15 years. I do not consider myself an expert, since it is impossible for any one person to know everything about all types of computers. I built the SWTPC (of Tiger Amps fame) 6800 "Computer" system back in 1976, made several Apple II clones and hot-rodded more than a few TRS-80's, but really got started down the "PC" path when a friend showed up at my house with a trunk load of scrap from the dumpster at the IBM plant where the PC was born in the early 80's. It took a few months but I built myself a blazingly fast 4.77 Mhz Intel 8088 based PC with 48 KB of RAM memory and one Shugart floppy disk drive from that scrap. By the late 80's I had an 16 MHz 80386 PC overclocked to 40 MHz with over a Megabyte of RAM and a pair of 20 Megabyte hard disks. I still build all my own PC's but stay away from the bleeding edge. I just retired my old Windows XP machine, as there is no reason for it anymore. I still have two working Windows 7 PC's because the old PCI (not PCIe) bus hardware is not supported on W10. I will not upgrade any of my machines to W11 until it has proven to be a useful upgrade. W7 may be unsupported, but is low risk as long as it's not connected to the internet. Both of mine are used for digital audio.
All Intel "core" branded chips since the Core 2 solo, duo and quad chips have a model number starting with Core i3, i5, i7 or i9 followed by a 4 or five digit number and one to 3 letters. It has been this way for about 15 years. The "core" branded chips and the "xeon" branded chips get refreshed about once a year as a new generation, each with a code name, that often refers to a lake or a bridge. In the core series the first digit, or the first two digits refer to the generation of the chip. IE, my old, but still working Core i5-2400 based Windows 7 PC has a second generation chip, while my Core i7-8700 based Windows 10 PC (the newest Intel CPU I have) has an 8th generation chip. Nigel's 12400 is a 12th gen chip, one of Intel's latest.
Gaming is a primary driver of the PC market, and was THE primary driver of video card design until crypto mining came along. In many cases the newer and more expensive chips offer little or no advantage over some of the older chips. I have a 4th generation Core i7-4790K based computer that still scores in the 32nd percentile on Passmark's "your PC vs the world" benchmark. It has an old low buck GT430 video card which is fine for my use case, but the same PC scores in the 51st percentile with a GTX1050 in it, since gaming performance is a primary benchmarking criteria. I don't game, and that PC drives one small monitor for code compilation and music generation (2D graphics with low frame rate) so the GT430 card suits it fine. The 4790K is "overclockable" meaning the user can crank up the processor speed, but I find no advantage to do so in this use case. I had it overclocked to just below the melting point when I used it for video rendering with the GTX1050, but I built a newer faster PC for video, and moved this one further down the food chain.
My code writing skill and patience level has me writing code for 32 bit Arduino compatibles like Teensy's and Daisy Seed's, nothing more complex despite having a college degree in computer engineering. These boards are both useful for digital audio and music generation. My biggest multi voice polyphonic music synthesizer project compiles in about 15 seconds on the 4th generation core i7 PC running W10. It's about 8 years old. It still takes about 10 seconds on the AMD Ryzen 7 PC that I use for video rendering and encoding. No reason to upgrade the old core i7 machine for the task it is used for.
I often tinker with digital music generation using Ableton Live or FL studio. I also use a "virtual modular synthesizer," called VCV rack. A FREE version of VCV rack exists for those who want to play, but large projects EAT CPU power for lunch....and dinner. Mid size projects run fine on the old 4th gen core i7, but some big projects will peg the CPU meter and stutter. A low cost video card is needed to avoid cycle stealing by the on chip video in some Intel CPU's. The old i7 uses a GT430 card from the dark ages, and works just fine for average tinkering.
On the flip side of that coin, that old 4th gen core i7 took overnight to render a 5 minute 4K video which was assembled from about 8000 still frame pictures each taken one second apart to make a time lapse video. This prompted me to make the only AMD PC that I have ever built, the previously mentioned Ryzen 7 3800X machine with a GTX1660 video card in it feeding a 4K TV and a 1920 X 1080 monitor. This cut the render time to a few hours depending on how much color grading I do on each batch of images to get them to match each other. This was a worthwhile upgrade. I have not built a synth in VCV rack, or a project in Ableton that taxes the Ryzen machine, but If I ever get serious with video, I may look to get a better PC. For the last three years it has been more than capable of meeting my needs, so spending money and time on upgrades isn't worth it at this time.
I just did my tax return on a "bare" W7 machine using FreeTaxUSA. The Feds accepted it. Did it last year too.
Unsure where you have to visit using Chrome to get keyloggers, copy buffer viewers and screen viewers installed without you knowing...
To get some closure, when upgrading a processor you first check your motherboard BIOS supports the new processor. This may need a BIOS upgrade.
Next you should consider what sort of Windows license you have. A preinstalled OEM version of Windows may be locked to the Motherboard BIOS.
Which may cause activation problems. Windows 7 does not support all the latest processors. This was a deliberate decision by Microsoft to encourage people to upgrade to Windows 10. Windows 7, for instance does not support AMD Ryzen processors. This applies to some Intel processors too AFAIK.
Next you should consider what sort of Windows license you have. A preinstalled OEM version of Windows may be locked to the Motherboard BIOS.
Which may cause activation problems. Windows 7 does not support all the latest processors. This was a deliberate decision by Microsoft to encourage people to upgrade to Windows 10. Windows 7, for instance does not support AMD Ryzen processors. This applies to some Intel processors too AFAIK.
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Most of #36 is very wrong. OEM motherboards are never supported for CPU swaps. No PC manufacturer that I know will support it and BIOS updates are tightly locked down by the OEM. I wouldn't even know where you would get a BIOS option from an OEM that added AGESA for newer processors, why would Dell/HP/(insert brand here) even do that?
Intel processors require new motherboards every two generations (the tick-tock cadence that Microsoft has followed for >10 years). So 3rd/4th, 6th/7th and now till 12th and 13th (the 13th is not yet launched). There is no scope (and usually not much incentive) for upgrading CPUs after two generations. The whole socket changes. So you can't fit a 12th generation processor on an 11th generation motherboard.
AMD has supported the same socket for years now - The AM4 socket was introduced in 2016-2017 and many old boards run the latest processors - of course with restriction on feature sets and some lower rank motherboards not being able to extend support for every known AM4 processor. They are now swapping it for AM5 by the end of 2022, which they promise will have similar longevity.
Windows 7 supports 1st and second generation Ryzen processors just fine, and everything up to and including Intel Skylake (that's 6th generation) with caveats. It doesn't support 2nd generation AMD APUs and anything after 7th gen Intel because W7 cannot meet the minimum secure boot requirements - this is a security issue to do with the command pipeline. Microsoft does support W7 for some very large organisations for whom the shift is gradual, and some smaller organisations actively provide support and patches to companies that cannot afford the bulk service from Microsoft. I still use plenty of W7, about 5 systems running it with no issues. It's fine online as well, unless you're susceptible to clickbait, spam and phishing. If you know what you're clicking, you can stay safe.
BIOS versions do not cause activation issues. Changing out your motherboard definitely will, but you would then need a new installation anyway. Windows has up to an unspecified number of hardware changes permitted, so you can swap processors/GPUs/memory a few times as long as it's on the same motherboard. The issue is the WinSXS folder, which breadcrumbs every piece of hardware your PC has ever had, and this grows to a humongous size.
Intel processors require new motherboards every two generations (the tick-tock cadence that Microsoft has followed for >10 years). So 3rd/4th, 6th/7th and now till 12th and 13th (the 13th is not yet launched). There is no scope (and usually not much incentive) for upgrading CPUs after two generations. The whole socket changes. So you can't fit a 12th generation processor on an 11th generation motherboard.
AMD has supported the same socket for years now - The AM4 socket was introduced in 2016-2017 and many old boards run the latest processors - of course with restriction on feature sets and some lower rank motherboards not being able to extend support for every known AM4 processor. They are now swapping it for AM5 by the end of 2022, which they promise will have similar longevity.
Windows 7 supports 1st and second generation Ryzen processors just fine, and everything up to and including Intel Skylake (that's 6th generation) with caveats. It doesn't support 2nd generation AMD APUs and anything after 7th gen Intel because W7 cannot meet the minimum secure boot requirements - this is a security issue to do with the command pipeline. Microsoft does support W7 for some very large organisations for whom the shift is gradual, and some smaller organisations actively provide support and patches to companies that cannot afford the bulk service from Microsoft. I still use plenty of W7, about 5 systems running it with no issues. It's fine online as well, unless you're susceptible to clickbait, spam and phishing. If you know what you're clicking, you can stay safe.
BIOS versions do not cause activation issues. Changing out your motherboard definitely will, but you would then need a new installation anyway. Windows has up to an unspecified number of hardware changes permitted, so you can swap processors/GPUs/memory a few times as long as it's on the same motherboard. The issue is the WinSXS folder, which breadcrumbs every piece of hardware your PC has ever had, and this grows to a humongous size.
I'm using Windows at work and Linux at home. If an app installed with both OS crashes, it's with Windows.
But I would wish it was possible to use the apps for Qobuz and Tidal with Linux...
But I would wish it was possible to use the apps for Qobuz and Tidal with Linux...
As stated, most OEM PC's have system specific BIOS, and upgrading much beyond adding memory or disk storage is as far as you can go. I have found exceptions though. Swapping a CPU chip within the same family, say popping a 4th Gen core i5 chip into a machine that came with a 4th gen core i3 will often work. Popping a 5th gen CPU into that board will usually NOT work even though they both use Socket 1150. The BIOS in that older machine was written before the 5th gen chips were released, so even if the chip fits, the BIOS doesn't recognize it and will likely not even POST.
Most motherboards sold into the DIY / System builder market have a "compatible hardware" list on the product page of the company's web site. It is often the case where an older motherboard can accept the next gen CPU with only a BIOS upgrade which MUST be done with the original CPU chip. There is at least one case where this is not possible. Socket 1151 boards (I think) have two or three different support chips. The boards with the series 1xx chips can not be made to work with a newer CPU chip even though it will fit the socket.
There are several flavors of DDR memory. Most motherboards have a "compatible CPU and memory" list on the web site. Attempting to use an incompatible CPU generally will not work, or may work, but eventually fry the MB and or the CPU (using a 95 watt CPU in a board rated for 65 watts). Memory must be from a flavor (DDR2, DDR3, DDR4 and now DDR5) specified by the MB vendor. You can often use an unspecified set of memory of the same flavor and equal or better speed specs, but test the combo thoroughly with burn in software before releasing it into the wild.
Many OEM PC's and PC's sold into a corporate Windows licensing and support agreement are locked to a specific version of Windows. You can usually upgrade these PCs but a new Windows license may be needed to, say go from W7 to W10. I have found some exceptions. We got some W7 PCs that were scrapped by NASA years ago. The "magic numbers" on the W7 COA stickers from those machines work fine with W10.
I bought several copies of Windows 7, OEM system builder version for my DIY PC's over the years. Some were even "upgrade disks" for upgrading XP or Vista to W7. All of the keys are still running fine with W10, and the two working W7 PC's that I have will eventually find W10 or Linux on them when the old PCI hardware dies or outlives its usefulness.
I have had success keeping W10 when swapping parts of machines slowly over time including the motherboard. I have had to call MS a couple times when swapping the MB and CPU at the same time. The "motherboard fried and it's too old to get one like it so I need to swap the CPU" story has worked for me, but I have only used it twice. Both times it was for swapping really old hardware to just old hardware (2nd gen to 6th gen). According to Microsoft my MS account has 12 Windows 10 licenses associated with it. If they are tracking IP's (likely) they all come from two domains in the same town. They don't seem to track the W7 stuff.
There are lots of things that W7 does not support. W7 will obviously not support CPU's and other hardware that did not exist when active W7 development ceased. It however did seem to lose support for a few things when W7 was being phased out. My generic Chinese touch screen lost it's touch capability with a W7 update in late 2014. It did magically fix itself with a W10 install.
There are things that only work right on W7 too. I am using some 15 year old audio hardware from M-Audio like the Delta 1010 8 channel 24/96 PCI and Audiophile 24/192 PCI audio interface hardware which is still working fine under W7 with it's XP drivers. It will not work right on W10 and only show up as 2 channel generic 16/48 interfaces in several Linux distros.
If you're bored, try Manjaro and install pipewire. Or if you like to get frustrated, install and configure Jack.
For years (when I was a kid), I would just pirate Windows... They made it so easy with codes like 09595 0959595 09595 for W95 install code 🙂 Or NT4? 911-1111111 LOL
Then I joined "Windows Insiders" and now have a legit W11 pro license linked to my MS account. I have upgraded the CPU/MB/RAM/SSD/and video all at once, Windows "reactivated" when I hit the button "I've replaced my motherboard recently"... Never needed to call MS thankfully. I boot it up once a month to let it update but otherwise, I don't ever use it.
As an aside, my Ivy Bridge i3 upgraded to W11 even though MS said it was too old to run it. The week after that, it updated itself.
For years (when I was a kid), I would just pirate Windows... They made it so easy with codes like 09595 0959595 09595 for W95 install code 🙂 Or NT4? 911-1111111 LOL
Then I joined "Windows Insiders" and now have a legit W11 pro license linked to my MS account. I have upgraded the CPU/MB/RAM/SSD/and video all at once, Windows "reactivated" when I hit the button "I've replaced my motherboard recently"... Never needed to call MS thankfully. I boot it up once a month to let it update but otherwise, I don't ever use it.
As an aside, my Ivy Bridge i3 upgraded to W11 even though MS said it was too old to run it. The week after that, it updated itself.
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