I wish...Since the work does not resemble playing with an Xbox or texting on a phone I have had zero takers on that front. I had one young ham as an employee a few years back who I thought would grow into taking an active role...who then opted to do IT in college and is making more than I ever have sitting in an office playing at a computer all day fixing NAT errors, setting up VPNs for remote employees...
If my business was scaled up some I could afford an employee...but then I'd be back-tracking on the plan of retirement...whatever that is.
I'll stop whining...life is very good!
Howie
No B&K 4135s out there languishing on a shelf?
If my business was scaled up some I could afford an employee...but then I'd be back-tracking on the plan of retirement...whatever that is.
I'll stop whining...life is very good!
Howie
No B&K 4135s out there languishing on a shelf?
Howie,
The secret to finding affordable working, used Bruel and Kjaer microphone capsules is to buy gear that has one! I got a 2209 complete with 4155 and filter set for less than what people ask for a used capsule. The 4145 capsule also came with a meter and the prior owner even included a copy of the notes he had from one of my lectures. Never went for a 4135. The 4155 allows me to do measurements the way folks did up to the 70's or so and the 1/2" 4145 allows me to do stadiums and arenas with more accuracy than pretty much anyone else. Of course I also have a NASA surplus pistonphone and even the preamp calibrator adapter.
For my Smaart kits I use Earthworks microphones.
The secret to finding affordable working, used Bruel and Kjaer microphone capsules is to buy gear that has one! I got a 2209 complete with 4155 and filter set for less than what people ask for a used capsule. The 4145 capsule also came with a meter and the prior owner even included a copy of the notes he had from one of my lectures. Never went for a 4135. The 4155 allows me to do measurements the way folks did up to the 70's or so and the 1/2" 4145 allows me to do stadiums and arenas with more accuracy than pretty much anyone else. Of course I also have a NASA surplus pistonphone and even the preamp calibrator adapter.
For my Smaart kits I use Earthworks microphones.
I tried to breed apprentices but they all ended up leaving home and getting jobs elsewhere 😀
Two chances left as the lead time is long...
Two chances left as the lead time is long...
you won't find a 4135 1/4" pressure capsule on anything. Its a rare beast actually. I have one you could borrow if necessary.
This is a newer version of the same: Bruel & Kjaer Type 4938 Microphone + Type 2670 Preamplifier (90d) Short Cable. | eBay and the price is not bad.
This is a newer version of the same: Bruel & Kjaer Type 4938 Microphone + Type 2670 Preamplifier (90d) Short Cable. | eBay and the price is not bad.
Sorry, got the 4135 free field response confused with the 4136 pressure response. I have a 4135 as well.
But there are several good deals on eBay. I counted 5 for sale. You will need the preamp or adapter + preamp to use them. if you can apply response correction a 4136 can also be used and may have better transient response.
But there are several good deals on eBay. I counted 5 for sale. You will need the preamp or adapter + preamp to use them. if you can apply response correction a 4136 can also be used and may have better transient response.
I have a 2209 that needs a capsule, although it looks to have threads for a 1" capsule on the preamp...so I guess I need either a 1" mic or a 1/4" preamp + 4135 or equiv...i's always something...
Howie
The 2209 usually takes a 1" capsule. Its also quite old. What are you trying to measure? How much above 30 KHz do you need to go?
Originally Posted by 1audio:
The 2209 usually takes a 1" capsule. Its also quite old. What are you trying to measure? How much above 30 KHz do you need to go?
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Demian, thanks for taking the time to discuss this with me, it is obvious you have more experience with Brüel & Kjær than I.
I have used the 2209/1616, and the 1/3 octave readings agree closely to perceived room responses when excited by pink noise. There is a close relationship between 1/3 octave averaging and human perceived loudness which makes devices like that very informative. Being portable helps one avoid the trap of single-point room measurement so many people get stuck on especially those who love auto-room correction, but that isn't the reason for this post.
It is also a lot easier to use than setting up a mic stand, measurement mic, preamp, laptop and the requisite desk and chair. With the 2209 (or more modern equivalent) you can walk around exploring room modes and speaker polar patterns as easily as by ear, but while getting accurate relative measurements in 1/3 octave bands. Old school certainly, but I find this technique equates more closely to perceived loudness than FFTs at a single point in space and allows easy LF trap tuning and placement.
For years I used first the TEF System 10, then a System 20 I still have, and then a TEF USB which recently died. In it's stead I am using the TEF-04 mic with a Focusrite Scarlett Solo to REW to examine speaker response and that works very well.
However for casual room analysis I would prefer portable devices like the B&K 2209 or it's newest version the 2250 with the relevant options which costs over $10k. I see a 2250 for $6900 or a Light version on eBay for $4k, I'd likely buy one if it was in the budget.
Maybe the most cost-effective way in 2021 would be to use a UMIK-1 USB mic with REW in 1/3 octave RTA mode on a Surface tablet. The more I think about it the more I like it...I am open to other ideas and appreciate all suggestions.
Cheers & happy listening, after all that is what we like about audio, right?
Howie
The 2209 usually takes a 1" capsule. Its also quite old. What are you trying to measure? How much above 30 KHz do you need to go?
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Demian, thanks for taking the time to discuss this with me, it is obvious you have more experience with Brüel & Kjær than I.
I have used the 2209/1616, and the 1/3 octave readings agree closely to perceived room responses when excited by pink noise. There is a close relationship between 1/3 octave averaging and human perceived loudness which makes devices like that very informative. Being portable helps one avoid the trap of single-point room measurement so many people get stuck on especially those who love auto-room correction, but that isn't the reason for this post.
It is also a lot easier to use than setting up a mic stand, measurement mic, preamp, laptop and the requisite desk and chair. With the 2209 (or more modern equivalent) you can walk around exploring room modes and speaker polar patterns as easily as by ear, but while getting accurate relative measurements in 1/3 octave bands. Old school certainly, but I find this technique equates more closely to perceived loudness than FFTs at a single point in space and allows easy LF trap tuning and placement.
For years I used first the TEF System 10, then a System 20 I still have, and then a TEF USB which recently died. In it's stead I am using the TEF-04 mic with a Focusrite Scarlett Solo to REW to examine speaker response and that works very well.
However for casual room analysis I would prefer portable devices like the B&K 2209 or it's newest version the 2250 with the relevant options which costs over $10k. I see a 2250 for $6900 or a Light version on eBay for $4k, I'd likely buy one if it was in the budget.
Maybe the most cost-effective way in 2021 would be to use a UMIK-1 USB mic with REW in 1/3 octave RTA mode on a Surface tablet. The more I think about it the more I like it...I am open to other ideas and appreciate all suggestions.
Cheers & happy listening, after all that is what we like about audio, right?
Howie
There are some good phone apps and plug in microphones (you need an older phone or LG phone to have a connector) that could do what you want. From your description you are not looking for +/- 1 dB accuracy (it would be pointless if you were) so the phone apps will do a great job. The next move would be an old Ivey but better an NTi Minilizer Minilyzer ML1 - Handheld Audio Analyzer I NTi Audio + microphone might be your best bet. Its a really useful tool for field use. With the Minirator you can even sort out response polarity etc in the field much quicker all on batteries.
Another option- This guy New Digital 2.4" LCD Handheld Oscilloscope DSO1511E+ 120MHz 500MS/s ARM FPGA ADC | eBay for $75 has an RTA function that could work with a self powered microphone. And its a useful 1 channel scope. Let me check the RTA since I have one. (I also have a minilizer.)
Another option- This guy New Digital 2.4" LCD Handheld Oscilloscope DSO1511E+ 120MHz 500MS/s ARM FPGA ADC | eBay for $75 has an RTA function that could work with a self powered microphone. And its a useful 1 channel scope. Let me check the RTA since I have one. (I also have a minilizer.)
Thanks for the suggestions! I prefer to show up at a couple million dollar studio with something that looks like the customer is getting more for what they pay, many already have phone apps, although they use the internal mics and are total shite.
It sounds petty, but it is definitely a good idea to instill a wow factor in a customer even if the data would be identical...and therein lies the desire to haul in a high-end B&K.
Anyway, I have looked at the NTI stuff and some of their devices look very useful for sure. One thing we use REW for is doing distortion sweeps which help show up marginal or damaged drivers in a multi-amped system, the offending driver is easy to spot. I am trying to standardize on equipment across our install engineers so we can share data and files, and REW is doing well for us so far. I am going to look into the Surface/REW/UMIK-1 concept and see how it plays out. Some of the guys are Mac folks so they can do the same with an iPad.
So much work, so little time!
Howie
Nature: Rattlesnakes''' sound '''trick''' fools human ears - BBC News
Makes me want to go back to the original paper to see if they had F-M curves for average mammals or stumbled on this fact after stressing out rattlers with dummies for a while!
Makes me want to go back to the original paper to see if they had F-M curves for average mammals or stumbled on this fact after stressing out rattlers with dummies for a while!
I know I'm a year late, but thanks for that link. I was able to download the service manual. Now if I decide to fire up (term used advisedly) the pair of Hill Model 1's that I have in storage the manual might come in handy.
I have been waiting for a time that there are no children or pets in the house though.
I am willing to part with my Meter, filter set and capsule (4145 1”) for whatever the current ebay price!
However I do see folks selling the meter and capsule for a not unreasonable price!
B&K Other | Bk Bruel Kjaer Type 223 Precision 435 Mic | Poshmark
RE the Poshmark ad; Either the SLM is a miniature or the 4135 they reference in the ad has taken on a lot of mass. The 4135 I have is a 1/4" mike. The one on the SLM is a 1" mike.
That SLM is 50 years old. While well made they will show signs of considerable age.
This might be a better more modern solution CEL-INSTRUMENTS OCTAVE BAND SOUND LEVEL METER CEL-266 DIGITAL | eBay I have a version that's pretty slick. This is better with the octave band analysis built in. You will need a 4133 or 4165 or equivalent capsule.
That SLM is 50 years old. While well made they will show signs of considerable age.
This might be a better more modern solution CEL-INSTRUMENTS OCTAVE BAND SOUND LEVEL METER CEL-266 DIGITAL | eBay I have a version that's pretty slick. This is better with the octave band analysis built in. You will need a 4133 or 4165 or equivalent capsule.
Demian,
There are as far as I know a few different versions of the meter with the same part number. They span from all vacumn tube to hybrid to solid state. But you are right they use a 1” capsule.
Of course if all Howie needs is just a microphone capsule... Bruel & Kjaer 4145 1" Measuring Microphone - TESTED | eBay
BTW you may be one of the few who have more test that you use, than I do!!!! 😉
There are as far as I know a few different versions of the meter with the same part number. They span from all vacumn tube to hybrid to solid state. But you are right they use a 1” capsule.
Of course if all Howie needs is just a microphone capsule... Bruel & Kjaer 4145 1" Measuring Microphone - TESTED | eBay
BTW you may be one of the few who have more test that you use, than I do!!!! 😉
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Thanks for looking around for me, guys!
After looking around at all the OLD equipment I have and some I have been meaning to fix for...let's say a while, I decided not to throw more money at old. I am currently using an Asus Transformer notebook/tablet running REW with a miniDSP UMIK-1 microphone. and for sources a pink noise CD for 1/3 octave RTA, and for sweep and other tests USB to a Focusrite Scarlett Solo ADDA and getting very reliable, stable results. The Asus is small enough to wander around with the pink noise CD playing and evaluate acoustic treatments. So far so good...
BTW, after loading the cal file for the UMIK into REW and invoking it's SPL meter, applying the GenRad 1562A to the UMIK shows it within +/- 0.5 dB at all 1562A frequencies....which I quite frankly found astonishing. I was sure between the age of the GenRad and price of the UMIK it would be whacked out. I am pleasantly surprised which doesn't happen too often these days. Of course 2 KHz is the highest 1562A freq, so I cannot verify cal above that, but supposedly the UMIKs are individually calibrated from 20 Hz to 20 KHz with the included cal file which REW integrates.
I have done some tests which show residual distortion from the UMIK to be quite low as well up to 105 dB SPL. I don't know about recording gigs with the UMIK but for test purposes it seems solid. I'm sure a Brüel & Kjær setup would give me better s/n, dynamic range and after manually creating a cal file from their test sheet, flatter amplitude and phase response...but between the problems with old gear and the cost of new...Not happening right now.
Cheers!
Howie
How does someone even list something like that on Poshmark? I followed the link, but was unable to navigate to any similar items. There doesnt seem to be a relevant catagory at all...
