The Black Hole......

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#4,121
GUNFU said:
Even for five conductors there is an application.
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/4...cxGlpWbtrmj-IacxgahgieNLx7lJxUg8txaBVZb4IyWm6

I saw this, but did not find their site. It looks like the company name has changed to Southwire’s. Romex 63949232 50 ft. 8/3 Black Stranded CU SIMpull NM-B Wire - Electrical Wires - Amazon.com
Southwire.com | Homepage
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Romex was a trade name for unsheathed wire from the 1920's. it became a name like Kleenex which no longer refers to a specific manufacturer. Just some tidbits of info...History of AC (BX) and NM Cable - Electrical Inspections - InterNACHI(R)️ Forum
 
#4,123
Markw4 said:
Anyway, the point is that 6" of reasonably good quality #12 gauge solid copper wire (nothing more special than someone would use to wire a house) makes a very good speaker wire because of its short 6" length and its simple construction. However, that's not to say that longer lengths of Romex would work as well for speaker use, they probably wouldn't.
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You should study up on speaker cable length and gauge. 12 gauge copper will work well for MUCH longer length than 6" as speaker cable.
 
#4,126
Markw4 said:
I'm sure we all recall that published hearing thresholds are not absolute limits, but rather they are estimates of the average limit for a population. That is to say, 50% of the people in the population would not be expected to hear an affect at that level, and the other 50% of people would still be able to hear an effect. To assure that almost nobody would be expected to hear the effect it might reasonable to use a specification, say, 10 times lower than the average limit. Thus, using 25% of the published limit might not rise of the level of being 'extreme,' perhaps merely prudent.
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Hi Mark,

There’s nothing that stops you from going even much further.
A modern Amp having a BW of 300 kHz has only some 10 degrees phase shift at 20 kHz.
That’s close to 1usec, not 10% but several decades from the Blauert table.
What I wanted to make clear is that this phase shift Mumbo Jumbo wisdom is a dead ending street to explain why cables produce different sounds.

Hans
 
#4,133
Hans Polak said:
Read my posting #3995 again and see how wrong you are. Hans
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/the-lounge/349926-black-hole-400.html#post6246275
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Hans, I continued to talk about the entire audio system. From start to finish, not a separate speaker cable. All distortions accumulate from the input to the speakers themselves. But, despite the fact that the greatest contribution to the distortion is made by the speakers, the nonlinear distortion of the amplifiers is even more noticeable, since they generate a much wider range of distortion. These are not my conclusions, these conclusions are in the above article and other books on electroacoustics. Moreover, in each component and in the cable, too - everything affects everything and interacts with everything. For example, cable and amplifier. Naturally, this interaction occurs in different proportions. Therefore, it cannot be argued that if the distortion of the speakers is large, the distortion of the cable does not affect or imperceptibly.
Alexander.
 
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#4,136
GUNFU said:
These are not my conclusions, these conclusions are in the above article and other books on electroacoustics. Moreover, in each component and in the cable, too - everything affects everything and interacts with everything. For example, cable and amplifier. Naturally, this interaction occurs in different proportions. Therefore, it cannot be argued that if the distortion of the speakers is large, the distortion of the cable does not affect or imperceptibly.
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I am inclined to agree. Also, seems likely some other as yet unmentioned factors are present in some cases.

Gunfu,
Presumably, you understand that Hans does not disagree speaker cables can be associated with audible effects, his concern seems to be with existing theories of causation. None of the theories yet offered predict big enough effects to account for the ease with which cable effects can often be audibly detected. Either it must be about as you say, that (1) multiple electrical mechanisms working together produce larger effects than the sum of them predicted individually (i.e. there must be some multiplicative mechanism), and or that (2) human hearing of some audible effects is possible at lower thresholds than prior research would suggest possible, at least in some cases. My guess would be there both things are involved, a mix of electrical causations, and areas of existing psychoacoustic research that probably need updating. If so, its not going to be quick nor easy to comprehensively prove everything to the satisfaction of skeptics. Thus, there is probably nothing to be gained by arguing about it incessantly now. Its going to take time for attitudes and old beliefs to change, maybe a very long time.
 
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#4,137

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#4,138
benb said:
Biwire?

No, wait, 1.5 Wire!
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Why, everyone knows you'd make the center conductor (+), with the two "outer" conductors (-).

It's only natural! 😉

Or maybe it sounds better the other way around. Maybe center is chassis / Earth ground, while the two outers are your amps bridge-tie outputs - with the center connected to the metal speaker frame. Or just the magnet pole piece. Or just that copper shorting ring thingy. Or to a metal phase plug, to ground all those negative ions floating around there.

Maybe someone makes a speaker with a center tapped voice coil, just for such a connection. I'm sure they'll all sound different -
 
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