Yes, I think I see what you mean.
Hmm. I can't really think of one, except that it's likely that the recording was probably mixed on a single speaker? (Or blasted into a single horn, heh.)
Then & Now - A Brief History of The World's Most Famous Recording Studios shows a couple of pictures of the control rooms in the early days. One of them shows one speaker, another two (after the control room was moved). Interesting topic to investigate. Hopefully Howie will jump in and give us his view on this as he must have known some of the old timers when he wasn't one 🙂
Well, colour me red. I’ll stick with stereo recordings and colour movies (hopefully without the cigarette smoke!)
Please not colorized. We got a fresh 16mm print of the Maltese Falcon in the 70's awesome nothing lost in fact the colorized version was excremental. Numerous of my favorite films are monochrome. The current audio conversation only underscores what a simulacrum recorded music is.
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Agree not colorized - although the colorized movies of WWI were a revelation - perhaps we should leave colorized movies for documentaries.
When I was very young (5 or 6) I thought that in the 'olden days' everything was in black and white because that's what I had seen on some old movie clips. When I asked my folks when the color started I got put right.
😀
When I was very young (5 or 6) I thought that in the 'olden days' everything was in black and white because that's what I had seen on some old movie clips. When I asked my folks when the color started I got put right.
😀
I know this thread wanders all over the place, so I'll just say that this post is in regard to the monaural/stereo topic. (And, I'm starting to try to keep up!) 🙂
Following up on my earlier post about monaural recording and playback, and hopefully to clarify and expand on some of those comments...
Fortunately/unfortunately, many of us have the opportunity to observe examples of simple recording and room acoustics in our own homes, in the form of news and weather broadcasters broadcasting from their own homes. Listen to the difference between a broadcaster in a reasonably well-controlled studio and a broadcaster at home. To my point, though, listen to various broadcasters in their various homes. An attentive listener can clearly hear the sonic differences. Not all "home broadcasting" is the same. Setting the choice of microphones aside for the moment, this is largely because of the differences from one room to another.
Now, in your mind, move that broadcaster to a different place in the same room, and move the microphone accordingly as well. (To make this work, you'll have to be an astute experienced listener.) The direct sound (the broadcaster's voice) is the same, because the relationship between the person and the microphone is the same, but the room sound is different. Why? The room hasn't changed, but the main sound reflections and the reverberation pattern have changed. This is because the source and the microphone are in a different place. This is key, and brings me back to my earlier points about source placement in a room, and multiple microphones. "Location" recording engineers (folks who record in a wide variety of venues, as opposed to a specific studio or three) know this very well.
To sum up, monaural recordings can most definitely convey a sense of space and position.
These are some of my observations on the topic. Disagreements are welcome, as are references to papers - that's how we learn and discover.
🙂
Following up on my earlier post about monaural recording and playback, and hopefully to clarify and expand on some of those comments...
Fortunately/unfortunately, many of us have the opportunity to observe examples of simple recording and room acoustics in our own homes, in the form of news and weather broadcasters broadcasting from their own homes. Listen to the difference between a broadcaster in a reasonably well-controlled studio and a broadcaster at home. To my point, though, listen to various broadcasters in their various homes. An attentive listener can clearly hear the sonic differences. Not all "home broadcasting" is the same. Setting the choice of microphones aside for the moment, this is largely because of the differences from one room to another.
Now, in your mind, move that broadcaster to a different place in the same room, and move the microphone accordingly as well. (To make this work, you'll have to be an astute experienced listener.) The direct sound (the broadcaster's voice) is the same, because the relationship between the person and the microphone is the same, but the room sound is different. Why? The room hasn't changed, but the main sound reflections and the reverberation pattern have changed. This is because the source and the microphone are in a different place. This is key, and brings me back to my earlier points about source placement in a room, and multiple microphones. "Location" recording engineers (folks who record in a wide variety of venues, as opposed to a specific studio or three) know this very well.
To sum up, monaural recordings can most definitely convey a sense of space and position.
These are some of my observations on the topic. Disagreements are welcome, as are references to papers - that's how we learn and discover.
🙂
It seems only 3 people on this thread read the Heyser paper JC linked to.
Having a binge listen to John Luther Adams this evening.
Having a binge listen to John Luther Adams this evening.
One very important thing not mentioned so far about about 2 speaker mono vs 1 speaker mono.
2 speaker mono is a phantom image. That phantom image is subject to comb filtering and will not have the same tonal balance as a single speaker in the center. The single speaker will sound brighter.
I have an entire thread on the subject.
2 speaker mono is a phantom image. That phantom image is subject to comb filtering and will not have the same tonal balance as a single speaker in the center. The single speaker will sound brighter.
I have an entire thread on the subject.
I did sort of mention it here https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/the-lounge/349926-black-hole-444.html#post6267962 and linked to here https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/356684-mtm-sound-characteristics-7.html#post6267222
Was the comb filtering something you could hear? Is your thread very long?
Was the comb filtering something you could hear? Is your thread very long?
Regarding playing back mono material through one or two loudspeakers, Panos linked paper is very informative. Fixing the Stereo Phantom Center
Betterment or worsening of intelligibility is a good indication of what should be chosen for the individual listening space and selected loudspeaker type.
Play back a mono recording with spoken words, listen and decide for your particular case.
IMO, the most demanding material for this is recorded theatric play, then opera, then audio book.
George
Betterment or worsening of intelligibility is a good indication of what should be chosen for the individual listening space and selected loudspeaker type.
Play back a mono recording with spoken words, listen and decide for your particular case.
IMO, the most demanding material for this is recorded theatric play, then opera, then audio book.
George
Thanks for the link George. I'll re-read that. I also need to dust off the stereo Shuffler papers I have copies of. I'll have mid-side processing capability when I complete the current sad pile of pcbs on my desk so will be fun to play with it.
I tried some searching yesterday to see if there was anything on the characteristics for mono reproduction speaker and didn't get far. Found an interesting BBC paper from 1958 but not had a chance to digest it yet. I am wondering if the Ohm speaker style of construction might not be a good starting point.
I tried some searching yesterday to see if there was anything on the characteristics for mono reproduction speaker and didn't get far. Found an interesting BBC paper from 1958 but not had a chance to digest it yet. I am wondering if the Ohm speaker style of construction might not be a good starting point.
One more thing not mentioned, if cheap/aged stereo speakers have passive crossovers inside then mono may sound a bit stereo merely because of mismatched crossover component values.
Pano published two files, a non processed version of a voice gong from left to right and back and a version that was convolved to solve a phantom centre problem.
For some reason it did quite the opposite in my case.
The non processed version sounded the same all the time, without timbre change in the middle, whereas the convolved version sounded weaker and a bit twisted in the middle ???
May be all the reflections from the ESL's backside are masking the centre problem.
Hans
For some reason it did quite the opposite in my case.
The non processed version sounded the same all the time, without timbre change in the middle, whereas the convolved version sounded weaker and a bit twisted in the middle ???
May be all the reflections from the ESL's backside are masking the centre problem.
Hans
ESLs certainly drive the room differently. Do your ESL-pros have any damping behind the membrane or are they running as true dipoles?
Bill,
I have no idea wether damping material is applied to this Pro version.
Interesting question, but the damping is meant to reduce the Q of the resonance at 50Hz.
I have no sign that there is an increase in FR at 50 Hz, but who knows ?
An other question: I could not quote your posting because it shows a multiquote.
What exactly is the purpose of this multiquote that cannot be quoted ?
Hans
I have no idea wether damping material is applied to this Pro version.
Interesting question, but the damping is meant to reduce the Q of the resonance at 50Hz.
I have no sign that there is an increase in FR at 50 Hz, but who knows ?
An other question: I could not quote your posting because it shows a multiquote.
What exactly is the purpose of this multiquote that cannot be quoted ?
Hans
I think it's to stop us quoting the post above, there is a discussion about that in forum problems.
I had read somewhere that ESLs had a felt blanket to make them more cardiod, but that may have just been the ESL 57 which is why I asked.
I had read somewhere that ESLs had a felt blanket to make them more cardiod, but that may have just been the ESL 57 which is why I asked.
“ An other question: I could not quote your posting because it shows a multiquote.
What exactly is the purpose of this multiquote that cannot be quoted ?“
I had a laugh at that.
Nice one Hans
😀
What exactly is the purpose of this multiquote that cannot be quoted ?“
I had a laugh at that.
Nice one Hans
😀