You might look at the Beyma MI-100 series of mid-woofers.
They range from 8", 10", 12" & 15".
I personally am interested in the 10-MI-100 and the 12-MI-100 units. 🙂
They range from 8", 10", 12" & 15".
I personally am interested in the 10-MI-100 and the 12-MI-100 units. 🙂
Sub-Optimal Option Only
Whether the equalization is active, passive or acoustical, or a combination thereof, you will find loudspeaker design without them to be a "mission impossible".
If the system you end up with has a low [Qt] (translate "crispy", "snappy", "punchy") then early roll-off of the low frequency response is a certainty. Without some form of equalization at the low end, this design tack will leave you with a suboptimal design.
Note as you increase motor strength [Bl], while keeping moving mass [Mms], compliance [Cms] & Voice Coil Resistance [Re] constant, you reduce driver [Qts] and increase system [F3]. I presume you are using sub-woofers in your system, so an [F3] of about 80 Hz is where you want to be. I suspect cost is an issue here as well, so beefy PA drivers are not a particularly attractive alternative.
Regards,
WHG
Whether the equalization is active, passive or acoustical, or a combination thereof, you will find loudspeaker design without them to be a "mission impossible".
If the system you end up with has a low [Qt] (translate "crispy", "snappy", "punchy") then early roll-off of the low frequency response is a certainty. Without some form of equalization at the low end, this design tack will leave you with a suboptimal design.
Note as you increase motor strength [Bl], while keeping moving mass [Mms], compliance [Cms] & Voice Coil Resistance [Re] constant, you reduce driver [Qts] and increase system [F3]. I presume you are using sub-woofers in your system, so an [F3] of about 80 Hz is where you want to be. I suspect cost is an issue here as well, so beefy PA drivers are not a particularly attractive alternative.
Regards,
WHG
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Really because it has an acoustically transparent dust cap. So the coaxial compression tweeter works. 🙂
I'm not a fan of rigid paper dustcaps. They lift the 3kHz midrange but introduce some unpleasant sounding fuzz into the sound. Metal ones can be good on occasion IMO. Like in the Monacor HT22/8 cone tweeter.
High efficiency is all terribly interesting. I don't much care whether you like Beyma or JBL or Eminence or Celestion. They all do the same sort of things. You inevitably lose deep bass with it due to the laws of physics.
High Efficiency Speakers
Troels Gravesen tends to partner his 8" bass units with an Eminence Deltalite 2512 12" subwoofer to solve this issue:
DTQWT-mkIII
I think the Eminence pages I quoted earlier are very interesting. Lot of detail there. Even the crossover schematics. 2mH/10uf and 3.3uF/0.33mH plus attenuator. Not rocket science.
Using coaxial products for DIY monitors and home hi-fi applications | Eminence Speaker
WLM use these sort of drivers in their splendid Diva. WLM das Team
My own efficient Visaton W200S build below. Bit bassy because it has high Le 2.2mH inductance, TBH, and I don't like the dustcap. We don't want big cone excursion for the clean sound.
Attachments
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Ok, I begin to believe seriously in the PA path, your reasons are very persuasive! I have a sub, of course, a Peerless XXLS 10'' with Hypex DS4.0, so I may return to the idea of using together with towers.. But let me understand: very often in PA woofer's specs I see suggested alignment based on max 20 liters cabinets, mine can't go under 30, and if it would help on extension I'd want to use even larger possible size of 39 liters, so may this debase the famous punchiness and presence I'd want to obtain respect a smaller size cabinet? All things considered Qts isn't often too small and bit larger cabinet shouldn't affect transient response, roght? I.e. the Tekton Mlore posted by System7 might be min 30 liters, and however how that speaker is able to get off to 40 Hz?!
Another question: Eminence Alpha 8CX mounts also a compression twweter, right? isn't possible to have it without tweeter? I shouldn't want to put aside my ScanSpeak D9500..
If I use instead Alpha 8A or Beta 8A I'll have however a bit too much sensitivity respect tweeter, don't you think this can be a problem?
Thanks : )
Another question: Eminence Alpha 8CX mounts also a compression twweter, right? isn't possible to have it without tweeter? I shouldn't want to put aside my ScanSpeak D9500..
If I use instead Alpha 8A or Beta 8A I'll have however a bit too much sensitivity respect tweeter, don't you think this can be a problem?
Thanks : )
Volt BM220-8.
Volt Loudspeakers | BM220.8 (8″)
Works in 35 L (or 39L in your case, minus driver/bracing/BR volume should end up as 35L net). Great bass-mid, an excellent match with SS 9500.
Volt Loudspeakers | BM220.8 (8″)
Works in 35 L (or 39L in your case, minus driver/bracing/BR volume should end up as 35L net). Great bass-mid, an excellent match with SS 9500.
In fact I do. Used BM220.8+SS9500 in 35 L BR (actually it was a full kit by Wilmslow Audio named HomeStudioMonitor, with their x/over, didn't modify anything, used as-was). Don't have it anymore - it is used in a commercial recording studio now! - IIRC x/o was @ 2.2Khz, 12dB symetrical LP/HP (electrical), at the short time I had it didnt measure the actual acoustical slopes.
But both drivers are easy to work with, and a good x/o shouldn't be difficult.
The sound was very smooth subjectively (again: I didn't measure them at the time), extended to about 35Hz (based on test tones listening), and the whole system IMO was studio-grade. Meaning no in-your-guts punch but smooth and articulate. Very good combination of drivers, complementing each other, and importantly allowing a relatively simple x/o. But the x/o is very important, simple doesn't mean easy or text-book.
Just my 0.02.
But both drivers are easy to work with, and a good x/o shouldn't be difficult.
The sound was very smooth subjectively (again: I didn't measure them at the time), extended to about 35Hz (based on test tones listening), and the whole system IMO was studio-grade. Meaning no in-your-guts punch but smooth and articulate. Very good combination of drivers, complementing each other, and importantly allowing a relatively simple x/o. But the x/o is very important, simple doesn't mean easy or text-book.
Just my 0.02.
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Do a bit of a search to get some impressions. I know that some Volt drivers are used in ATC speakers.
Thank you Draki, what a good report, very well-earned 0.02 : ) Certainly no-in-my-guts-punch is quite a concern although might excessive punch in long time tire and fatigue ears?
In fact just yesterday evening I began to sketch a XO for it with D9500 and I've been surprised succeding in 15 minutes to obtain good curves, in my opinion.
When ready I'll publish but of course after had take a look at the Wilmslow kit.
Good luck with you project and keep informing about the progress (measurements!)
As to the not-in-your-guts remark: I meant it as a positive attribute 🙂
As to the not-in-your-guts remark: I meant it as a positive attribute 🙂
Hello, I'm here with my idea about substituting my Vifa with a PA driver, temptation is too strong : ) This is simulation using an Eminence Alpha-8A, the highest Qts driver of its class:
What do you think about? I've got convinced that PA drivers can give more fun.. moreover Eminence costs very lower respect Volt, the only possible alternative candidate for me, it's easier to mount and I'll be able everytime to add my sub to the system.
Let's see what will happen : )
Thank you very much for all advices and precious suggestions, it has been a constructive and stimulating discussion.
What do you think about? I've got convinced that PA drivers can give more fun.. moreover Eminence costs very lower respect Volt, the only possible alternative candidate for me, it's easier to mount and I'll be able everytime to add my sub to the system.
Let's see what will happen : )
Thank you very much for all advices and precious suggestions, it has been a constructive and stimulating discussion.
Good heavens take care about the Eminence Alpha 8A,I didn't use any high pass filter for woofer in XO design but of course it's necessary because as it is it can't handle power input below 100 Hz because of high excursion.. In this simulation Fb is tuned at a lower frequency than driver Fs. Excuse me please!
isn't "punch" best served at ~ 80 Hz? 2nd harmonic of low bass
IDK I think a pro 8 incher is a midrange >200Hz.
It's silly doing pro drivers for an average size bedroom. besides amp power is cheap.
IDK I think a pro 8 incher is a midrange >200Hz.
It's silly doing pro drivers for an average size bedroom. besides amp power is cheap.
Hello, yes, probably a PA driver for 20 square meters is misspent but what I need is its timbre, I don't care about power or sensitivity. However, here's maximum power capability for the Eminence above-mentioned project, after all there's a minimum at about 90 Hz of 50 W, which may be ever difficult to reach in my listenings, and after after all New Vifa Tower had a minimum at about 50 Hz of 30 W but I never noticed any problem even pushing power.
Please see (crosspoint has been put to 2 Khz for the same reason):
Do you really think that 90 Hz dip in the right graph may be a problem?
Please see (crosspoint has been put to 2 Khz for the same reason):
Do you really think that 90 Hz dip in the right graph may be a problem?
Here are a few 8" pro woofers with Fs ranging from 50 - 70Hz, sensitivity in the kow to mid 90s and decent excursion:
http://www.precision-devices.com/file-downloads/PD8BM20-DATASHEET-310114.pdf
http://www.faitalpro.com/products/files/8PR200/8/8PR200_datasheet_8.pdf
0027 8MB500 - LF Transducers - Ferrite 8MB500 : Eighteen Sound - professional loudspeakers
B&C Speakers
Since line arrays came to dominate the PA market there has been a slew of new pro woofers 8" and below.
http://www.precision-devices.com/file-downloads/PD8BM20-DATASHEET-310114.pdf
http://www.faitalpro.com/products/files/8PR200/8/8PR200_datasheet_8.pdf
0027 8MB500 - LF Transducers - Ferrite 8MB500 : Eighteen Sound - professional loudspeakers
B&C Speakers
Since line arrays came to dominate the PA market there has been a slew of new pro woofers 8" and below.
AAH yes paper can do wonderful things that way. Not to snuff at any other materials. On the opposite side of the coin I have heard poly make stunning realism.
Hello, how may suggestions, thanks a lot!
In last week I've had way to study and simulate some drivers of the PA kind, and I've understood an important thing: the more Fs is low the better is obviously extension but not good the mid-low response: talking about two opposite example, say that beast of Precision Device PD.8BM20 (Fs 49 Hz) and Eminence Alpha8-A (Fs 73 Hz), the first goes down but low and springs off all its energy some decade above 100 Hz, while the second doesn't go the same down but has a smoother resposne curve and a quite better reponse around 100 Hz.
I think that my ideal driver may be a middle category between them woofer, such as the Beyma 8P300Fe (Fs 61 Hz), what do you think about?
However what probably I will do is to buy a pai of cheap FaitalPro 8FE200-8 (Fs 80 Hz) to try the first kind of PA woofer as said, for me more interesting, and at least substitute in future with the other one, isn't it good idea?
In last week I've had way to study and simulate some drivers of the PA kind, and I've understood an important thing: the more Fs is low the better is obviously extension but not good the mid-low response: talking about two opposite example, say that beast of Precision Device PD.8BM20 (Fs 49 Hz) and Eminence Alpha8-A (Fs 73 Hz), the first goes down but low and springs off all its energy some decade above 100 Hz, while the second doesn't go the same down but has a smoother resposne curve and a quite better reponse around 100 Hz.
I think that my ideal driver may be a middle category between them woofer, such as the Beyma 8P300Fe (Fs 61 Hz), what do you think about?
However what probably I will do is to buy a pai of cheap FaitalPro 8FE200-8 (Fs 80 Hz) to try the first kind of PA woofer as said, for me more interesting, and at least substitute in future with the other one, isn't it good idea?
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