Hello, I have an inquiry for you to help me find a new woofer for my system.
I'm looking for a crisp and punchy in the mid-bass band woofer to make it work in a 30-57 liters cabinet in a two way configuration together with a ScanSpeak D9500 tweeter.
I'd rather be oriented to woofer characterized by high values of Qms and BxL, for example Peerless 830869 or Visaton GF200, but for Peerless I've found builder's review that describe it a bit mid-bass lacking.
Does anyone know Visaton GF200?
However what is the best, energetic, spry, punchy and pushing in the mid-bass band 8'' woofer you've ever heard?
Thanks a lot : )
I'm looking for a crisp and punchy in the mid-bass band woofer to make it work in a 30-57 liters cabinet in a two way configuration together with a ScanSpeak D9500 tweeter.
I'd rather be oriented to woofer characterized by high values of Qms and BxL, for example Peerless 830869 or Visaton GF200, but for Peerless I've found builder's review that describe it a bit mid-bass lacking.
Does anyone know Visaton GF200?
However what is the best, energetic, spry, punchy and pushing in the mid-bass band 8'' woofer you've ever heard?
Thanks a lot : )
Max Punch
This is what I use.
10"
http://www.mccauleysound.com/component_overview.cfm?ID=110
12" Also
http://www.mccauleysound.com/component_specifications.cfm?ID=41
Regards,
WHG
This is what I use.
10"
http://www.mccauleysound.com/component_overview.cfm?ID=110
12" Also
http://www.mccauleysound.com/component_specifications.cfm?ID=41
Regards,
WHG
I don't know how low you want to go but what you're describing will be found in prosound woofers. Take a look at b&c, rcf, faital, bms, etc.
Example:
http://youtu.be/DK0tRl51wAY
Example:
http://youtu.be/DK0tRl51wAY
Last edited:
it's difficult to transpose words from inside your mind into technical specs
maybe better explain in a different way
1) what kind of music you use for everyday, plus is it the same music you use to judge speakers. if they are very different sometimes your opinion of the results may never converge, esp for a 2 way! 2) your environment ( room size and for judging this music, and most important IMO volume levels. sometimes 2 ways have a limited sweet spot with sound levels depending on the music.
3) try a method of inserting a EQ in your system and experiment with various freq bands and levels instead of words?
the last time i've looked into 8''ers for 2 ways, a certain older Seas driver was about the only one I could get close to working well even with a low Fs dome tweeter.
2 ways with bigger mid-bass are difficult to get right esp. using todays drivers IMO consider either smaller 2-ways or maybe even 3 ways.
why stick to big 2 ways is there some speaker in your past perhaps?
These adjectives you use for your desired 8" drivers are usually achieved in the realm of enclosure design and optimal enclosure volume. I have heard outstanding drivers sound terrible just because they are just slapped into any - usually oversized enclosure. Punchy sound is so often not an attribute of one component , but the proper synthesis of all key elements such as phase alignment through the crossover region, excellent linearity through the band pass, correct impedance control and precise level matching between bass/mid and tweeter, not to mention correct porting of a bass reflex enclosure.
You may find that that punch you're missing may be coming from poor level matching in the tweeter. My advice would be to buy a decent mid quality driver from say Peerless, Vifa, Seas(Prestige line) or Swan(HiVi) and use precise manufacturers recommendation for box volume. The good thing about Visaton kits is that they provide complete crossover schematics and box designs. Personally I would go for a 15cm driver which exhibits far better extension. If you're after a high quality studio grade 8" driver which is extended and works well in a small box I would look at the Volt range.
Volt Loudspeakers | Studio Speakers
You may find that that punch you're missing may be coming from poor level matching in the tweeter. My advice would be to buy a decent mid quality driver from say Peerless, Vifa, Seas(Prestige line) or Swan(HiVi) and use precise manufacturers recommendation for box volume. The good thing about Visaton kits is that they provide complete crossover schematics and box designs. Personally I would go for a 15cm driver which exhibits far better extension. If you're after a high quality studio grade 8" driver which is extended and works well in a small box I would look at the Volt range.
Volt Loudspeakers | Studio Speakers
Andrea,
Although Vifa M21 WO is a very good unit for a 2 way
box, assuming XO filter and tuning is as it should be
in a well executed design, I fear the high Vas value
won't give as much punch as a stiffer suspension would.
The fact different drivers tuned the same, do not sound
the same, is what you are probably talking about.
I know it because I have exchanged a deteriorated surround
for a much stiffer one, Vas dropped significantly, the sound
went on the punchier side. Curious thing. It was a polypropylen
cone, so much for the myth of plastics sounding dull.
Although Vifa M21 WO is a very good unit for a 2 way
box, assuming XO filter and tuning is as it should be
in a well executed design, I fear the high Vas value
won't give as much punch as a stiffer suspension would.
The fact different drivers tuned the same, do not sound
the same, is what you are probably talking about.
I know it because I have exchanged a deteriorated surround
for a much stiffer one, Vas dropped significantly, the sound
went on the punchier side. Curious thing. It was a polypropylen
cone, so much for the myth of plastics sounding dull.
Thank you Geopango, I took a look at the Volt Studio speakers where the 220.8 seems to match exactly what I want.
The problem is linked to the machanically overdamped/overcontrolled nature of the Vifa M21WO39, this confirmed by ax expert builder friend of mine, and nothing helped in one and half year of lenghten/shorten vent, enlarge/tighten load volume, move/rotate cabinet etc., in every case sound is boring, lifeless. Even tightening loading enclosure bass becomes more rubbish and boomy rather than punchy.
Different works teh Scanspeak D9500 tweeter, which is very very nice and sounds real and joyful, as far as it makes me wait along before deciding to substitute woofer, that together ScanSpeak gives out a light and clear middle band. Please dn't misunderstand me, the system is very good, but I got tired and just want to change.
The same expert friend told me to look for high Qms and BxL values woofer to find nice and punchy mid-basses, so I selected some drivers, including for example Peerless 830869 and Visaton GF200, but another builder who used Peerless wasn't really satisfied just about mid-bass profit, so I'm really confused and not sure yet about nothing at all.
Only way last, look for personal experiences about driver featuring what I described in this thread.
What I want is a involving, clear, dynamic, lifeful, crisp, punchy and joyful in mid-bass woofer, I can't find other way to describe it. I want to listen battery or electric bass in a way that I can feel something solid hiting my stomach.
My room is a classic 20 square meters living room with a rather soundprrofing central sofa upon which I seat for listening, cabinets is rather near to wall, say 25 cm, more is impossible for furnishing reason; cabinet is tightable from 57 to 30 liters.
Thanks : )
The problem is linked to the machanically overdamped/overcontrolled nature of the Vifa M21WO39, this confirmed by ax expert builder friend of mine, and nothing helped in one and half year of lenghten/shorten vent, enlarge/tighten load volume, move/rotate cabinet etc., in every case sound is boring, lifeless. Even tightening loading enclosure bass becomes more rubbish and boomy rather than punchy.
Different works teh Scanspeak D9500 tweeter, which is very very nice and sounds real and joyful, as far as it makes me wait along before deciding to substitute woofer, that together ScanSpeak gives out a light and clear middle band. Please dn't misunderstand me, the system is very good, but I got tired and just want to change.
The same expert friend told me to look for high Qms and BxL values woofer to find nice and punchy mid-basses, so I selected some drivers, including for example Peerless 830869 and Visaton GF200, but another builder who used Peerless wasn't really satisfied just about mid-bass profit, so I'm really confused and not sure yet about nothing at all.
Only way last, look for personal experiences about driver featuring what I described in this thread.
What I want is a involving, clear, dynamic, lifeful, crisp, punchy and joyful in mid-bass woofer, I can't find other way to describe it. I want to listen battery or electric bass in a way that I can feel something solid hiting my stomach.
My room is a classic 20 square meters living room with a rather soundprrofing central sofa upon which I seat for listening, cabinets is rather near to wall, say 25 cm, more is impossible for furnishing reason; cabinet is tightable from 57 to 30 liters.
Thanks : )
Not an 8 but the Faital 12PR310 in 75 ltr box tuned to 50hz does a very nice job. I'm crossing at about 1600 with good results. the 9500 will barely work with it at reasonable power.
Hello Infinia, my ideal woofer has an audible strenght, "life" and presence in mid-bass band but certainly hasn't to overly lack in low extension, let's say that a 45-50 Hz, even 55, F3 should be yet perfect.
My preferred music is rock, that's all. But my problem isn't due to a level lacks in bass band, in my trials of tweakings I obtained even too much bass response for me, but it was however rubbish and boomy, not crispy and tight as I'd want. My problem is only my woofer. I want a new one, with stiffer suspension, with higher Qms and BxL, with anything possible, but a woofer that "sounds", that lets me listen clearly and "phisically" battery membrane or electric bass chord moving, as I talked about in my other thread.
Thanks : )
My preferred music is rock, that's all. But my problem isn't due to a level lacks in bass band, in my trials of tweakings I obtained even too much bass response for me, but it was however rubbish and boomy, not crispy and tight as I'd want. My problem is only my woofer. I want a new one, with stiffer suspension, with higher Qms and BxL, with anything possible, but a woofer that "sounds", that lets me listen clearly and "phisically" battery membrane or electric bass chord moving, as I talked about in my other thread.
Thanks : )
Cloth surround and transparent dust caps and light paper cones are one approach to the lively sound:
The above cheapie Sony E44 bass is excellent. I suppose an eminence Beta 8 does the same sort of thing in about 20L of reflex. The plastic cone "balanced drive" tweeter is surprisingly good too.
Don't discount the paper cone tweeters either. Monacor HT22/8 is a goodie. They have a lovely realism about them.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
The above cheapie Sony E44 bass is excellent. I suppose an eminence Beta 8 does the same sort of thing in about 20L of reflex. The plastic cone "balanced drive" tweeter is surprisingly good too.
Don't discount the paper cone tweeters either. Monacor HT22/8 is a goodie. They have a lovely realism about them.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Everything Andrea said about his preferable sound
screams of changing lane to PA technology.
Where did infinia's post go? 🙂
screams of changing lane to PA technology.
Where did infinia's post go? 🙂
2 words spring to mind sealed or aperiodic, requires lowest fs and weaker Bl.
PA tech = bigger rooms, the OP has never said anything about his environment
I reckon he could plug up his port and fill up the enclosure half way with Styrofoam blocks for a quick check.
PA tech = bigger rooms, the OP has never said anything about his environment
I reckon he could plug up his port and fill up the enclosure half way with Styrofoam blocks for a quick check.
Last edited:
FWIW, here's the Eminence page on coaxial setups and crossovers:
Using coaxial products for DIY monitors and home hi-fi applications | Eminence Speaker
The Beta 8cx looks a good driver to me. As does the Beta 8.
American Standard Series | Eminence Speaker
These drivers are designed for about 20 litres reflex, with the predictably high Fs around 60Hz. It's how it works with high efficiency. I'm pretty sure I used Beta 8 some years back in home speaker, and it was good.
Using coaxial products for DIY monitors and home hi-fi applications | Eminence Speaker
The Beta 8cx looks a good driver to me. As does the Beta 8.
American Standard Series | Eminence Speaker
These drivers are designed for about 20 litres reflex, with the predictably high Fs around 60Hz. It's how it works with high efficiency. I'm pretty sure I used Beta 8 some years back in home speaker, and it was good.
I would second this choice. High power and clear mating into most tweeter designs.
Driver Selection Revisited
I gave you two recommendations that will meet your mission description; however, they do not come in an 8" frame size and doubt that a driver that small will get the job done as you describe it here. I suspect what you are looking for is more headroom, not a louder listening level. Use a sealed enclosure and equalize the roll-off (for step and low-Q drivers you will probably use). For the top end I would combine these with a good compression driver and horn assembly to match the listening preferences I suspect you have. There is simply no substitute for driver muscle here, and you will be operating them way below their continuous ratings as well. In this setting, all the things you describe will appear, effortlessly.
Regards,
WHG
I gave you two recommendations that will meet your mission description; however, they do not come in an 8" frame size and doubt that a driver that small will get the job done as you describe it here. I suspect what you are looking for is more headroom, not a louder listening level. Use a sealed enclosure and equalize the roll-off (for step and low-Q drivers you will probably use). For the top end I would combine these with a good compression driver and horn assembly to match the listening preferences I suspect you have. There is simply no substitute for driver muscle here, and you will be operating them way below their continuous ratings as well. In this setting, all the things you describe will appear, effortlessly.
Regards,
WHG
I remembered a speaker that variously uses the Eminence Alpha and smaller dustcapped Beta 8. It's the Tekton M-Lore.
Tekton Design M-Lore Loudspeaker Reviewed
Looks like about 30 Litres of reflex. Tannoy used to do this sort of thing with dual-concentrics too.
Tekton Design M-Lore Loudspeaker Reviewed
Looks like about 30 Litres of reflex. Tannoy used to do this sort of thing with dual-concentrics too.
Attachments
Thanks a lot.
@ Infinia,
@ Whgeiger,
@ Geopango,
@System7,
Thanks again : )
@ Infinia,
I've already tried to stuff a sock in the vent and to close it completely but unfortunately Vifa hasn't at all capability to extend response in closed cabinet and the result is too poor in bass for me; however my room is slightly square room by 20 square meters with central sofa/listening point; cabinets are rather close to the wall (25-30 cm about).
@ Whgeiger,
Sincerely I shouldn't want to use any active EQ, moreover seen that Vifa hasn't so high excursion. However it's exact, I don't want louder listening level, only more headroom.
@ Geopango,
Wonderful product, I've got specs, traced frd and zma and pushed into Boxsim, and it seems to wprk very very well, with good extension and rather high linearity, only fault is the price.. But now the most important question: how does it sound? Have you listened it? I refer particularly to the BM220.8, because of its Qms=5.04, BxL=11.0, Vas=47 (Vifa has Qms=1.97, BxL=8.2, Vas=105). I can decide to spend for it but I must be sure it matches my target.
@System7,
Sure this seems another good candidate, but I fear that Fs is too high, isn't it? However I'll try some simulations, I'm sure apart Fs problem it could be perfect in terms of headroom and punchy sounding.
Thanks again : )
Member
Joined 2009
Paid Member
- Status
- Not open for further replies.