Hey Scott, I forgot to mention if you get a faure Requiem, I got the one with Kiri Tekanawa and Charles Dutoit. It's the one I'm used to...therefore I like!
I dunno... 300,000 bucks on audio! For me it has developed into the fact that I find it enormously satisfying saying that I built it myself. That I know the value of everything and the love and care that has gone into the construction and every decision is a by product. Not to mention that I know how to open the things up and operate!
And hey! Lets face it most of what you pay for in highend audio is not the parts but the time and expertise of the person developing the product!
I don't know whether a system like that would keep me occupied long enough! I mean, where to go once you've achieved perfection!
My next step will be an amp!
Cheers Stroop
P.S. - Darn it I can't deny....300,000 on stereo would be fabulous!
I dunno... 300,000 bucks on audio! For me it has developed into the fact that I find it enormously satisfying saying that I built it myself. That I know the value of everything and the love and care that has gone into the construction and every decision is a by product. Not to mention that I know how to open the things up and operate!
And hey! Lets face it most of what you pay for in highend audio is not the parts but the time and expertise of the person developing the product!
I don't know whether a system like that would keep me occupied long enough! I mean, where to go once you've achieved perfection!
My next step will be an amp!
Cheers Stroop
P.S. - Darn it I can't deny....300,000 on stereo would be fabulous!
How about a 300k DIY setup!!
Can't be done? Sure you can- once you start designing rooms, and built in Bass horns!!
Can't be done? Sure you can- once you start designing rooms, and built in Bass horns!!
Hey, that's right!
There's that italian guy that incorpoated his bass horns into the floor of his listening room/house! They do something like 15hz flat...I actually have no idea how low...but you get the idea!
You could buy silver hand wound transformers and a complete set of gold film caps etc. for your 300B and all sorts of stuff...talk about audio jewellry! I reckon if I actually knew how to design stuff I could rack up a nice bill!
Yeah that would be cool!
Stroop
There's that italian guy that incorpoated his bass horns into the floor of his listening room/house! They do something like 15hz flat...I actually have no idea how low...but you get the idea!
You could buy silver hand wound transformers and a complete set of gold film caps etc. for your 300B and all sorts of stuff...talk about audio jewellry! I reckon if I actually knew how to design stuff I could rack up a nice bill!
Yeah that would be cool!
Stroop
I agree Stroop....the satisfaction is in building it and making it work as well as the pride in having done it. In 1990 I became disgusted with the entire high end due to the outrageous prices and the paranoia promoted to keep you disatisfied unless you had the best regardless of cost. I sold everything....about $60,000...and have not regretted it for a moment. It was sheer madness.....and still is. I went through the same thing in avaition and wound up building my own airplane...a Starduster Too.
Ray
Ray
Well, this guy who spent $300,000 may or may not visit my office for a listen to the BIBs. I’ve invited him. Apparently he’s spent a lot effort on room optimization. No clue what his system is. It may be Adcom or VAC… I’m curious about his reaction to the sound of the BIBs.
That is COOL! You're own plane!!! My grandfather was a pilot and in his spare time he used to build stuff, but he was most proud of the sports car he built, we're talking about from scratch and in the 40's! An amazing man that I never got to meet.
Hey did you see those little helicopters that you can build yourself? There was a british TV show that documented the whole process! the joy that guy had on his face on the first test flight was exactly what i felt when I fired my speakers up for the first time! Well...not exactly, but close!
No seriously I'm hooked!
Stroop
Hey did you see those little helicopters that you can build yourself? There was a british TV show that documented the whole process! the joy that guy had on his face on the first test flight was exactly what i felt when I fired my speakers up for the first time! Well...not exactly, but close!
No seriously I'm hooked!
Stroop
Solid state Rega Brio is excellent with 168s BIBs!
Solid bass! Just a bit fizzy in the high’s compared to tubes but still an excellent match.
With lesser speakers (Pioneer/Piezo or even a small Fostex 127e based speaker) I prefer the Sonic Impact amp to the Rega. But with the deeper reaching larger BIBs the overall sound is better with the solid state amp.
My current assessment is that the SI amp (base amp not tweaked) is great with smaller full range drivers but used with a powered sub to cover the bass.
Larger BIBs that produce all the bass without a subwoofer requires an amp that digs deeper whether it’s solid state, tubes or digital. Big BIBs reveal an amps weakness in the bass.
Peace,
Godzilla
Solid bass! Just a bit fizzy in the high’s compared to tubes but still an excellent match.
With lesser speakers (Pioneer/Piezo or even a small Fostex 127e based speaker) I prefer the Sonic Impact amp to the Rega. But with the deeper reaching larger BIBs the overall sound is better with the solid state amp.
My current assessment is that the SI amp (base amp not tweaked) is great with smaller full range drivers but used with a powered sub to cover the bass.
Larger BIBs that produce all the bass without a subwoofer requires an amp that digs deeper whether it’s solid state, tubes or digital. Big BIBs reveal an amps weakness in the bass.
Peace,
Godzilla
Horses for courses!
Jeff,
we are old enough to know that not even the prettiest young lady can dance the waltz while carrying sacks of coal - let's leave the "gigabass from a fleamuscle amp" to the wannabe purists whilst we enjoy music.
Seeya
Pit
Jeff,
we are old enough to know that not even the prettiest young lady can dance the waltz while carrying sacks of coal - let's leave the "gigabass from a fleamuscle amp" to the wannabe purists whilst we enjoy music.
Seeya
Pit
You can get good bass from SET actually, providing it's been properly designed and has decent output transformers. Problem is, very few are. And even fewer have. It's when amps are rolled off or their DF doesn't match the driver's that you run into problems.
Hmm... I think at this stage with the fe108's I would rather rolled off on the top than rolled off on the bottom,
Although without a good top a good bottom is only half way satisfying and vice versa. I'm talking about audio here!
I think with so many resources here and peoples experiences with experimentation between amp and driver, it is the perfect opportunity to try and match the amp to the driver and box, rather than saying one is definatively overall better than the other. We should be way beyond that! Like everything in life there is more than one way to skin a cat. (terrible saying that...)
So good work Jeff! That is the sort of stuff I'm looking for! Maybe I'll try a higher powered tripath or Ucd 180 that can whack out bass with sweeter tops for my fe108's, rather than something lower powered. Research and consideration is the best part of this!
Cheers Stroop
Although without a good top a good bottom is only half way satisfying and vice versa. I'm talking about audio here!
I think with so many resources here and peoples experiences with experimentation between amp and driver, it is the perfect opportunity to try and match the amp to the driver and box, rather than saying one is definatively overall better than the other. We should be way beyond that! Like everything in life there is more than one way to skin a cat. (terrible saying that...)
So good work Jeff! That is the sort of stuff I'm looking for! Maybe I'll try a higher powered tripath or Ucd 180 that can whack out bass with sweeter tops for my fe108's, rather than something lower powered. Research and consideration is the best part of this!
Cheers Stroop
Hmm, I'd rather have no bass than unpleasant, slow, bloated bass. Better to lose the octave or two all together than have it be honky, slow, wooly poop.
Musicality is higher up my list of wants than broad frequency response.
Musicality is higher up my list of wants than broad frequency response.
I've just finished putting together a system for my girlfriend, consisting of a pair of BIBs with fe127e's, a T-Amp and T-Preamp and a modded Lenco L75, and it's bl**dy brilliant!!! Clean and beautiful sound all the way from the very, very top down to unbelievable bass from such a small driver. And that's without even doing anything to the T-Amp. Not sure how much total cost was, but it was a LOT less than buying anything new, and sounds so much better (if a little rough-and-ready in the cosmetics department for the moment.) My girlfriend was a little sceptical about having such big speakers, but I managed to persuade her (they're not sooo big, they hide in the corners...), and now she's heard them, she loves them. They're just bare mdf at the moment, but she has plans to paint them in the style of Hundertwasser. Should be fun! Maybe I'll post a picture if/when she gets round to it.
Going back to my 168Sigmas in small but beautiful Norh cabinets was a shock. I'm going to have to build a set of BIBs for them too now - I've gotta have more of that bass!
Much thanks to everyone here for such an entertaining and informative thread.
Going back to my 168Sigmas in small but beautiful Norh cabinets was a shock. I'm going to have to build a set of BIBs for them too now - I've gotta have more of that bass!
Much thanks to everyone here for such an entertaining and informative thread.
http://www.zillaspeak.com/bib-godzillabib.asp
I can't even imagine a different box for my 168S anymore. The amount of bass and the QUALITY of the bass is fantastic. On the Stereophile test cd i clearly hear 20hz (low down in volume but there). Kick drums, bass guitar, any kind of twack or boom comes thru like no other cabinet i've heard. The room is filled with the 'feeling' of large instruments that's very satisfying.
I can't even imagine a different box for my 168S anymore. The amount of bass and the QUALITY of the bass is fantastic. On the Stereophile test cd i clearly hear 20hz (low down in volume but there). Kick drums, bass guitar, any kind of twack or boom comes thru like no other cabinet i've heard. The room is filled with the 'feeling' of large instruments that's very satisfying.
Jeff - would you suggest that the rear tweeter is "essential" - and have you experimented with any other cheapo types?
>>> Jeff - would you suggest that the rear tweeter is "essential" - and have you experimented with any other cheapo types?
IMO the rear tweeter is NOT essential with the Fostex 168s or 127e… I do not own and never heard the other drivers they make but have several pairs of Radio Shack 1197s which are similar to the 103 (so I’ve read)… and they don’t need a tweeter either.
I think the 168s and 127e can benefit from a rear firing tweeter that’s crossed over above 10k and playing very softly as an enhancement to the air and liveliness of their treble. But this is subtle and probably subjective. You still hear treble and cymbal crashes perfectly fine without the tweeters but with the tweeters you hear more shimmer and activity in the upper registers. Some may find it too much… but I like it that way.
I love cheap piezo tweeters and use them all the time firing out the rear. Facing these cheap tweeters forward can sound harsh, spitty and fatiguing… but fire them backwards and you get air and life, IMO.
http://www.zillaspeak.com/pioneerb20-piezo.asp
http://www.zillaspeak.com/Bamboo.asp
Scroll down to see a cheap rear firing piezo.
IMO the rear tweeter is NOT essential with the Fostex 168s or 127e… I do not own and never heard the other drivers they make but have several pairs of Radio Shack 1197s which are similar to the 103 (so I’ve read)… and they don’t need a tweeter either.
I think the 168s and 127e can benefit from a rear firing tweeter that’s crossed over above 10k and playing very softly as an enhancement to the air and liveliness of their treble. But this is subtle and probably subjective. You still hear treble and cymbal crashes perfectly fine without the tweeters but with the tweeters you hear more shimmer and activity in the upper registers. Some may find it too much… but I like it that way.
I love cheap piezo tweeters and use them all the time firing out the rear. Facing these cheap tweeters forward can sound harsh, spitty and fatiguing… but fire them backwards and you get air and life, IMO.
http://www.zillaspeak.com/pioneerb20-piezo.asp
http://www.zillaspeak.com/Bamboo.asp
Scroll down to see a cheap rear firing piezo.
Way back I used have several of the old RadioShack piezos and gave them up after tiring of the "fizzy" sound. I was very interested to read Godzilla's mods and wonder if anyone else has tried modifying these with good results. Heck I've never even seen a published freq resp curve for these -- does anyone have one or have a link to one?
'Hmm, I'd rather have no bass than unpleasant, slow, bloated bass. Better to lose the octave or two all together than have it be honky, slow, wooly poop.
Musicality is higher up my list of wants than broad frequency response.'
DrewP...
Maybe I should clarify.....I meant it in regards to a pairing with my fe108's....which are a little strong up top and not bass heavy. And what bass they do have is really VERY nice!
And of course musicality is important.
Stroop
Musicality is higher up my list of wants than broad frequency response.'
DrewP...
Maybe I should clarify.....I meant it in regards to a pairing with my fe108's....which are a little strong up top and not bass heavy. And what bass they do have is really VERY nice!
And of course musicality is important.
Stroop
Holdent… here are frequency graphs for those cheap piezo’s you gave up on. The trick is to basically reduce their output everywhere but from 10k on up (or even higher up like 15k works great too). All you want is the ‘air’ they produce and nothing more. I use them to add ‘air’ to full range drivers that lack it.
http://www.zillaspeak.com/piezo.asp
Peace,
Godzilla
http://www.zillaspeak.com/piezo.asp
Peace,
Godzilla
Hi!
My opinion is that if one have a rolled of/weak bass, the high's should also be rolled off. Of course, each to his own.
I've slapped my Sonido drivers on ob's today. They sound really sweet direct from the box. No shout or strained sound with good high's. I can hear the actual sound when a guitar string is picked and a nice decay of the tone follows. (I play guitar)
The spec's are not ideal for ob use. No bass what so ever but I want to listen to them before my BIB's are ready.
Funny thing is that they beam less than my Monacor SPH60X. If standing in the kitchen, listening to Monacor's, there's no treble at all. While with Sonido, I don't miss anything.
Also there's a much more wider sweet spot in listening position.
All in all, I think this is a winner, but we'll see when proper boxes are made.
Cheers/Peter
My opinion is that if one have a rolled of/weak bass, the high's should also be rolled off. Of course, each to his own.
I've slapped my Sonido drivers on ob's today. They sound really sweet direct from the box. No shout or strained sound with good high's. I can hear the actual sound when a guitar string is picked and a nice decay of the tone follows. (I play guitar)
The spec's are not ideal for ob use. No bass what so ever but I want to listen to them before my BIB's are ready.
Funny thing is that they beam less than my Monacor SPH60X. If standing in the kitchen, listening to Monacor's, there's no treble at all. While with Sonido, I don't miss anything.
Also there's a much more wider sweet spot in listening position.
All in all, I think this is a winner, but we'll see when proper boxes are made.
Cheers/Peter
OK, I don't understand how the BIBs work really, which will become quite obvious quite soon!
Here is a sketch of a kind of Double BIB that has the advantage of having the driver in the middle of the line as some I believe have mentioned is optimal. That's why I started on this path. It also is a very long line, if the height of the cabinet is 6' , the horn length would be 18', and the opening would be 22" x whatever the depth of the cabinet. IF it is possible to use this longer length then the lowest frequency could be extended.
Can the BIB be calc'ed for longer lengths and compensate with larger horn mouth or somethin'? Or is there a driver that requires an 18' length? If the throat is too big where the driver is we can use a bigger driver or make the depth of the cabinet less, like the monoliths, though I'd rather not.... The drawing shows an 8" driver but in this drawing a 12" would fit.
Just a possible variation if SAF is not much of an issue. The shape would be OK in my opinion, kind of mid-century looking. Also the wide face where the driver would go would augment the midrange which might be a good thing....
Comments on this might help us all understand the BIB better
Here is a sketch of a kind of Double BIB that has the advantage of having the driver in the middle of the line as some I believe have mentioned is optimal. That's why I started on this path. It also is a very long line, if the height of the cabinet is 6' , the horn length would be 18', and the opening would be 22" x whatever the depth of the cabinet. IF it is possible to use this longer length then the lowest frequency could be extended.
Can the BIB be calc'ed for longer lengths and compensate with larger horn mouth or somethin'? Or is there a driver that requires an 18' length? If the throat is too big where the driver is we can use a bigger driver or make the depth of the cabinet less, like the monoliths, though I'd rather not.... The drawing shows an 8" driver but in this drawing a 12" would fit.
Just a possible variation if SAF is not much of an issue. The shape would be OK in my opinion, kind of mid-century looking. Also the wide face where the driver would go would augment the midrange which might be a good thing....
Comments on this might help us all understand the BIB better
