Attention BIB-heads. Dan has just drawn my own, er, attention, to the Ciare HX132 unit, which has specifications spot on for this sort of load, and by all accounts, a good sonic reputation. Nice build and looks too. Like the Monacor SPH-60X, it's a drop in replacement for the RS40 1354, and at 83 Euros apiece from Spectrum audio, it's not very expensive. Here's its 1/2 space performance in Terry Cain's original cabinet.
have at 'em!
have at 'em!
Attachments
Hi!
Or why not Cantare 5FR MKII. At 50 EURO/piece and also the specs (guess) are similar. Some builders in Germany are fond of them. It shure looks like a copy of Ciares.
Regarding the stuffing, I've spent considerable time to find the right amount for my room. it;s a "cold " room with alot of hard surfaces, so what's good here will maybe be a disaster in a softer room.
Anyway I ended up with loosely fluffed pillow stuffing from the closed end down to driver. 10 mm BAF wadding behind driver about 20 cm down the sloping baffle and 2.5 cm BAF on the bottom. I will try with wool lining in my new BIB's to be born in January.
Scott, My wife asked before Christmas how BIG the Sonido versions will be. Of course I answered MUCH bigger than your sim
Wife responded with an "Aha" and a shrug!!!
Here comes the question then, if I keep length, position of driver but increase the suggested mouth area to 100 square inches, will it work or not?
As usual, thanks for patience and for help.
Best Regards Peter
Or why not Cantare 5FR MKII. At 50 EURO/piece and also the specs (guess) are similar. Some builders in Germany are fond of them. It shure looks like a copy of Ciares.
Regarding the stuffing, I've spent considerable time to find the right amount for my room. it;s a "cold " room with alot of hard surfaces, so what's good here will maybe be a disaster in a softer room.
Anyway I ended up with loosely fluffed pillow stuffing from the closed end down to driver. 10 mm BAF wadding behind driver about 20 cm down the sloping baffle and 2.5 cm BAF on the bottom. I will try with wool lining in my new BIB's to be born in January.
Scott, My wife asked before Christmas how BIG the Sonido versions will be. Of course I answered MUCH bigger than your sim
Wife responded with an "Aha" and a shrug!!!Here comes the question then, if I keep length, position of driver but increase the suggested mouth area to 100 square inches, will it work or not?
As usual, thanks for patience and for help.
Best Regards Peter
I have made a few minor updates but not enough to explain the differences in the results seen in these two plots. If I look at the blue dashed curves, the infinite baffle responses, I begin to wonder if you are using two different sets of T/S parameters.
Looks like it Martin, judging from the IB curves. I used the specs off the Spectrum audio site:
Re 6.8ohms
Le 0.2mH
Fs 65Hz
Qe 0.73
Qm 1.96
Vas 15 litres
Sd 84cm^2
Bl 4.95
I've just re-run the sim and it still comes out the same. I'll see if I can seek out some other specs. and see what gives. Bloodhound mode engaged!
Re 6.8ohms
Le 0.2mH
Fs 65Hz
Qe 0.73
Qm 1.96
Vas 15 litres
Sd 84cm^2
Bl 4.95
I've just re-run the sim and it still comes out the same. I'll see if I can seek out some other specs. and see what gives. Bloodhound mode engaged!
Attachments
Greets!
Unless I have measured specs I can trust, I use factory specs when available since they are typically better than what you can buy and size cabs on the large side to compensate: http://www.ciare.com/pdf/catalogo/HX132.pdf
GM
Unless I have measured specs I can trust, I use factory specs when available since they are typically better than what you can buy and size cabs on the large side to compensate: http://www.ciare.com/pdf/catalogo/HX132.pdf
GM
Aha -that explains it. Agreed re the factory specs. I probably shouldn't have used the Spectrum ones.
Peter, I'll check when I get a minute. Probably give a slight lift at Fc., but don't quote me on that -I can't remember off the top of my head what the FR looked like.
Woof.
Peter, I'll check when I get a minute. Probably give a slight lift at Fc., but don't quote me on that -I can't remember off the top of my head what the FR looked like.
Woof.
Happy New Year everyone!!!
Hey Godzilla thanks for your kind words!!! I'm afraid the amp I've got is such a piece of manure (great word that!), I can't really do anything until I get a decent starting point, so I know what I'm playing with in terms of stuffing! At least then I'll have something with 2 equal channels! Still even with this rubbish they have moments of brilliance!
Anyone who can give me their impression of the fe108's in regards to their top would be most appreciated, I'm finding them a bit syl...sybil...sibilan...darn it...the 'esses' are prominant at the moment, but not all the time...from what I can remember this doesn't usually pose any problems, so I think it must be the ugly amp.
This is my first real experience of full range speakers and I gotta say that the impression is, is that they are sooo fast in their response!!!! There is no dampening or slowing down of things like say percussion, due to an XO. I get a real attack! I guess a fully active system might be similar. So, yeah...in my opinion dynamics are there. (Is this what people mean when they say 'micro dynamics'?) I think in passages where there is very thickly orchestrated dynamicism then i think we could be getting into trouble...maybe! I'm yet to try these out with a good amp and Cd player. They are desperately trying to give me an image and play beautiful music! I can only imagine how they would perform with an SET amp or Ucd.
I love 'em so far, even with their faults which, I believe can be mostly corrected and most likely are caused by factors not to do with the boxes themselves.(I say mostly because I personally don't think 1 system should be asked to do all music perfectly. I am not looking at creating a one size fits all solution to audio. I am actually trying to 'optimize' my system to my musical taste! How's that?!) My room is also really reverberant too, which muddles things up a bit..
I'm trying to be objective here which is difficult, primarily because I built them from the ground up! Yeah I'm a proud dad!
Cheers Stroop
Hey Godzilla thanks for your kind words!!! I'm afraid the amp I've got is such a piece of manure (great word that!), I can't really do anything until I get a decent starting point, so I know what I'm playing with in terms of stuffing! At least then I'll have something with 2 equal channels! Still even with this rubbish they have moments of brilliance!
Anyone who can give me their impression of the fe108's in regards to their top would be most appreciated, I'm finding them a bit syl...sybil...sibilan...darn it...the 'esses' are prominant at the moment, but not all the time...from what I can remember this doesn't usually pose any problems, so I think it must be the ugly amp.
This is my first real experience of full range speakers and I gotta say that the impression is, is that they are sooo fast in their response!!!! There is no dampening or slowing down of things like say percussion, due to an XO. I get a real attack! I guess a fully active system might be similar. So, yeah...in my opinion dynamics are there. (Is this what people mean when they say 'micro dynamics'?) I think in passages where there is very thickly orchestrated dynamicism then i think we could be getting into trouble...maybe! I'm yet to try these out with a good amp and Cd player. They are desperately trying to give me an image and play beautiful music! I can only imagine how they would perform with an SET amp or Ucd.
I love 'em so far, even with their faults which, I believe can be mostly corrected and most likely are caused by factors not to do with the boxes themselves.(I say mostly because I personally don't think 1 system should be asked to do all music perfectly. I am not looking at creating a one size fits all solution to audio. I am actually trying to 'optimize' my system to my musical taste! How's that?!) My room is also really reverberant too, which muddles things up a bit..
I'm trying to be objective here which is difficult, primarily because I built them from the ground up! Yeah I'm a proud dad!
Cheers Stroop
Just forgot to mention, Godzilla.....straight pipes with fe16x's woah man... You ROCK!!! They are big fellas, even the little fe108's are tall! But the sound...hmmmmm.
I think Jeff is refering to his Bob Brines designed ML TQWTs, though I speak under correction. I suspect they're a bit small for 167s actually (not enough volume), but they might work OK.
>>> I think Jeff is refering to his Bob Brines designed ML TQWTs, though I speak under correction. I suspect they're a bit small for 167s actually (not enough volume), but they might work OK.
I am referring to Bob’s design, yes. Whatever I put into them always sounds good (RS 1354, Fostex 127e, TB Bamboo). Mine were built (accidentally) 1.5 inches wider than Bob’s spec. I was going to try a 167e unless a suitable Hemp comes around. Meanwhile, I am finishing off a pair of lovely sounding 127e small slotted boxes (chestnut stain… hope it looks nice) and then a pair of TB Bamboo BIBs are all cut up and waiting for consruction… I also have a handful of smaller projects to do too (subwoofer for sister, small den speakers, friend that just moved – his wife wants him to get smaller speakers. His are giants from the mid 70s).
The Straight Pipe and other Voigt style pipes always look half done to me these days. Half a BIB that is.
Peace,
Godzilla
I am referring to Bob’s design, yes. Whatever I put into them always sounds good (RS 1354, Fostex 127e, TB Bamboo). Mine were built (accidentally) 1.5 inches wider than Bob’s spec. I was going to try a 167e unless a suitable Hemp comes around. Meanwhile, I am finishing off a pair of lovely sounding 127e small slotted boxes (chestnut stain… hope it looks nice) and then a pair of TB Bamboo BIBs are all cut up and waiting for consruction… I also have a handful of smaller projects to do too (subwoofer for sister, small den speakers, friend that just moved – his wife wants him to get smaller speakers. His are giants from the mid 70s).
The Straight Pipe and other Voigt style pipes always look half done to me these days. Half a BIB that is.
Peace,
Godzilla
BIB surgery
I had the BIB up on the operating table yesterday.
In the way I assembled, I was able to get the
bottom off and layered in some squares of light,
teased quilt stuffing from the fabric store. I held it
in place with some 1" small brad wire nails and fluffed
it up then fitted the bottom back in.
I also cut down the false base to put the driver height
at 39 in. It looks better and sounds better-- not so
boomy.
Still haven't gone to the carpet shop dumpster to
look for felt underlayment to make the other tweak
that GM mentioned.
So total tweaks are:
1. Some of that same quilt batting up in the
peak.
2. Batting squares fastened around the four sides
of the horn mouth about 10 in.
3. The base treatment.
My impression was that I heard more coming out of the
horn mouth-- less muddied than before.
Everything isn't tightened down yet.
I had the BIB up on the operating table yesterday.
In the way I assembled, I was able to get the
bottom off and layered in some squares of light,
teased quilt stuffing from the fabric store. I held it
in place with some 1" small brad wire nails and fluffed
it up then fitted the bottom back in.
I also cut down the false base to put the driver height
at 39 in. It looks better and sounds better-- not so
boomy.
Still haven't gone to the carpet shop dumpster to
look for felt underlayment to make the other tweak
that GM mentioned.
So total tweaks are:
1. Some of that same quilt batting up in the
peak.
2. Batting squares fastened around the four sides
of the horn mouth about 10 in.
3. The base treatment.
My impression was that I heard more coming out of the
horn mouth-- less muddied than before.
Everything isn't tightened down yet.
Thanks a ton Scott for the sims! If you find some time can you sim the wider cabinet with the RS 1354's? Just curious how much of a mistake i made.
Hey Jeff and anyone else who is interested,
If you want a listening recommendation....get a copy of Faure's Requiem.....STUNNING! Those organ tones blend so beautifully it is heart wrenching!
Stroop
If you want a listening recommendation....get a copy of Faure's Requiem.....STUNNING! Those organ tones blend so beautifully it is heart wrenching!
Stroop
Thanks for the suggestion. I'll see if I can grab a copy tomorrow.
I've been listening to the June Tabour box set Always over the last few days. Stunning, and well worth a punt if you can find it. Especially for the previously unreleased tracks. Stunning.
Jeff -I'll see if I can run a sim in the morning.
BTW -do you like the new bloodhound avatar guys? I found it the other day and couldn't resist. Somehow, it seemed appropriate.
Scott
I've been listening to the June Tabour box set Always over the last few days. Stunning, and well worth a punt if you can find it. Especially for the previously unreleased tracks. Stunning.
Jeff -I'll see if I can run a sim in the morning.
BTW -do you like the new bloodhound avatar guys? I found it the other day and couldn't resist. Somehow, it seemed appropriate.
Scott
I like the bloodhound Scott... but my Godzilla avatar looks like it might eat your bloodhound whole.
No worries about the sim Scott... my ears tell me what i need to know. Thanks anyway. I was too quick to ask. Please don't trouble yourself.
Peace,
Godzilla
PS. I may be arranging a meeting with a friend who has a friend with a (roughly) $300,000 system (dedicated listening room, etc... i have no details on what he's got yet) to come over and listen to my BIBs in the coming days or weeks... I'm curious to hear and see his response when he hears my (roughly) $300 BIBs.
Since this guy spent thousands upon thousands for his system does that make him a real audiophile?
No worries about the sim Scott... my ears tell me what i need to know. Thanks anyway. I was too quick to ask. Please don't trouble yourself.
Peace,
Godzilla
PS. I may be arranging a meeting with a friend who has a friend with a (roughly) $300,000 system (dedicated listening room, etc... i have no details on what he's got yet) to come over and listen to my BIBs in the coming days or weeks... I'm curious to hear and see his response when he hears my (roughly) $300 BIBs.
Since this guy spent thousands upon thousands for his system does that make him a real audiophile?
Greets!
Not really, just someone with an obscene amount of disposable income. Many (most?) DIYers are more true 'audiophile' than the 1-800 'cost no object/mine's bigger than yours' types. Oh well, the only difference between men and boys is the price of their toys, so whoever dies with the most, wins. At least he kept the money 'in play' rather than just letting it sit in a fund/whatever.
GM
Not really, just someone with an obscene amount of disposable income. Many (most?) DIYers are more true 'audiophile' than the 1-800 'cost no object/mine's bigger than yours' types. Oh well, the only difference between men and boys is the price of their toys, so whoever dies with the most, wins. At least he kept the money 'in play' rather than just letting it sit in a fund/whatever.
GM
$300,000? God help us! Still, I have to agree with Greg -at least he's actually done something with it rather than leaving it sitting in some account for the bean-counters to drool over.