B.VDBOS said:
I guess we are still in network infancy here, giving the number of comparisons of a democratic US to Nazi Germany, Bush to Hitler, etc.
the other thing I find interesting is the single mindedness of some of us. You hear people talking about how much environmental friendly those electric vehicles are, wind mills, hydro plants, etc.
Yet, those same people never bothered to ask themselves the where the electricity that charges your zero-emission BEV comes from 🙂)), or the environmental costs of hydro plants or wind mills.
It is almost like explaining to a child why that tasty candy can be bad for her.
Oh, well.
Yet, those same people never bothered to ask themselves the where the electricity that charges your zero-emission BEV comes from 🙂)), or the environmental costs of hydro plants or wind mills.
It is almost like explaining to a child why that tasty candy can be bad for her.
Oh, well.
millwood said:
Well with hitlers "JEW" within six degree's seperation of anything anti-nazi,
and bush's "TERRORIST" within six degree's seperation of anything anti-war against terror,
and when anything is within six degree's seperation of everything
Im sure there will be a few more overlaps,
Or was that oil-laps
B.VDBOS said:
An example of what not to be
An example of what not to say
An example of what not to do
An example of the power and reach of the gastapo
"Nazis did this to identify them as a Jew?"
The gastapo identified eveyone 😱 (how did they know if you were a jew or NOT a jew)
In Hitler's Nazi Germany it was more important to be a non-jew (pro nazi)
One example of this, Hitler wanted all the sciencetists to work on his war machine (balistics, aerodynamics ect.) so he labled other things like theoretical phisics a "Jewish science" then got his propagander ministers to LINK it to somethink bad that realy happend, got his thugs to burn some books in public and got his gastapo to enforce it. With all this going on would you want to practice theoretical phisics in Germany
Einstine didn't 😱
Ironicly this is one of the many reasions why Hitler never got the atomic bomb
The "JEW" was never a person to begin with, just an object of fear
I do see the point you are making. The Jews were marked, hunted down, and ultimately killed because they were Jews. Jews were called out as the bad guys and the apparatus of the state took care of the rest, yes?
Where I part from you though, and I admit it is a fine line, is that those that are being hunted down are marked as terrorists and they "may" have links to greater terrorist networks. Members within those networks have already demonstrated their willingness to die for their cause and did so spectacularly on 9/11. Therefore, they and those allied with them, gave up their rights as citizens of any country and are subject to zealous consequences. If this action prevents additional terrorist attacks here, it is worth it. Sadly, innocents do get caught in the dragoon like the 15-year old referenced earlier. However, nothing happened to him of any consequence and his option for redress is in the civil courts. This is what the ACLU is perfectly designed to handle as well as a raft of other advocacy organs.
Those who cherish freedom (and I believe nearly all Americans do) can certainly see the danger of an overactive state attaching the term "terrorist" to opposition groups and silencing them. We do however have an amazing bulwark against that. It is called the 2nd Amendment and it is acknowledge by the Bill of Rights for exactly the reason you are alluding to - To prevent the tyrannical consolidation of power by the government.
speaker
i received a public annoncement from the canadian governement.
i will try to translate:
To all canadian
We want to catch all taliban terrorist in canada.
Since taliban are not allowed to see other naked women other than there spouse and that alcool are prohibited by there law.
On sunday 2th of may at 2pm. Every canadian woman should go outside naked and walk on the street. All Canadian man should stare at them with a six pack on there side.
Anybody who doesn't follow will be arrest as a taliban terrorist.
We're counting on you
Your prime minister
i will try to translate:
To all canadian
We want to catch all taliban terrorist in canada.
Since taliban are not allowed to see other naked women other than there spouse and that alcool are prohibited by there law.
On sunday 2th of may at 2pm. Every canadian woman should go outside naked and walk on the street. All Canadian man should stare at them with a six pack on there side.
Anybody who doesn't follow will be arrest as a taliban terrorist.
We're counting on you
Your prime minister
Daniel-A said:
Damn those cleaver Canadians, what a smart and effective way of catching terrorist.
Maybe all future flights would be manned and served by naked female attendants, 🙂
Wait, make that all TSA employees so that we can catch them before they board the airplanes.
🙂
speaker said:
Yes but the "JEW" was the transport not the target, hitler wanted to take over Germany, Europe, Russia and the rest of the world
Ordinary people that just happend to have some jewish blood (the genetic jew) were ultimately killed because hitler was running out of places to put them (bad management)
speaker said:
There are no "TERRORIST" networks (as per described by rumsfield) only a network of lies that links isolated events with the war on terror (enter clasic, time-old propagander techniques)
speaker said:
Giving up "rights as citizens" is a play on words
The laws that these terrorists(?) do not have access to have nothing to do with what they do or dont deserve, they are there to find out if that the person is resposable for the charges against them or if the charges are in fact real
9/11 was a large event in every way and the punishment should be large also, but you dont need to change the legal system that determines weather it was, for example some spoilet little rich kids from Saudi-Arabia or a "TERRORIST" from easy target land
speaker said:
This action has killed over fourteen and a half thousand civilians in Iraqi cities and towns
speaker said:
Does that second amendment have power over the Homeland gestapo's enemy combatant?
Looks like OBL's been pulled out of the bag LINK LINK LINK
Hmmm only three links between OBL and every thing that it means to be an American......or doesn't mean maby (works ether way)
Is old rummy falling back to the original terrorist?
You know the one's
Good decent Americans vrs the evil dispicable anti-american (anti-american all in the apropreate political proprtions 😉 )
Hay we no were not perfict, but were not like them............besides what about the time you did it
Any thing anti-bush will put America in danger
Whos bush's terrorist going to be now
Is it going to be YOU 😱
Predicted bush solution:
Send more troops and money
Does anybody smell a rat?
Hmmm only three links between OBL and every thing that it means to be an American......or doesn't mean maby
(works ether way)Is old rummy falling back to the original terrorist?
You know the one's
Good decent Americans vrs the evil dispicable anti-american (anti-american all in the apropreate political proprtions 😉 )
Hay we no were not perfict, but were not like them............besides what about the time you did it
Any thing anti-bush will put America in danger
Whos bush's terrorist going to be now
Is it going to be YOU 😱
Predicted bush solution:
Send more troops and money
Does anybody smell a rat?
speaker said:
OBL killing civilians because of misconceptions about Americans?
(real or manufactured)
Im talking about the (accidental?) release of those pictures and the reaction from the evil
follower of OBL, you know the one, he tells the world (or maybe only America) who he is
at the same time as hiding his face?..........thats odd
Anyway he LOOKS like an Arab terrorist
Im sure that will be enough for some
GOEBBELS' PRINCIPLES OF PROPAGANDA
Based upon Goebbels' Principles of Propaganda by Leonard W. Doob, published in Public Opinion and Propaganda; A Book of Readings edited for The Society for the Psychological Study of Social Issues.
1. Propagandist must have access to intelligence concerning events and public opinion.
2. Propaganda must be planned and executed by only one authority.
a. It must issue all the propaganda directives.
b. It must explain propaganda directives to important officials and maintain their morale.
c. It must oversee other agencies' activities which have propaganda consequences
3. The propaganda consequences of an action must be considered in planning that action.
4. Propaganda must affect the enemy's policy and action.
a. By suppressing propagandistically desirable material which can provide the enemy with useful intelligence
b. By openly disseminating propaganda whose content or tone causes the enemy to draw the desired conclusions
c. By goading the enemy into revealing vital information about himself
d. By making no reference to a desired enemy activity when any reference would discredit that activity
5. Declassified, operational information must be available to implement a propaganda campaign
6. To be perceived, propaganda must evoke the interest of an audience and must be transmitted through an attention-getting communications medium.
7. Credibility alone must determine whether propaganda output should be true or false.
8. The purpose, content and effectiveness of enemy propaganda; the strength and effects of an expose; and the nature of current propaganda campaigns determine whether enemy propaganda should be ignored or refuted.
9. Credibility, intelligence, and the possible effects of communicating determine whether propaganda materials should be censored.
10. Material from enemy propaganda may be utilized in operations when it helps diminish that enemy's prestige or lends support to the propagandist's own objective.
11. Black rather than white propaganda may be employed when the latter is less credible or produces undesirable effects.
12. Propaganda may be facilitated by leaders with prestige.
13. Propaganda must be carefully timed.
a. The communication must reach the audience ahead of competing propaganda.
b. A propaganda campaign must begin at the optimum moment
c. A propaganda theme must be repeated, but not beyond some point of diminishing effectiveness
14. Propaganda must label events and people with distinctive phrases or slogans.
a. They must evoke desired responses which the audience previously possesses
b. They must be capable of being easily learned
c. They must be utilized again and again, but only in appropriate situations
d. They must be boomerang-proof
15. Propaganda to the home front must prevent the raising of false hopes which can be blasted by future events.
16. Propaganda to the home front must create an optimum anxiety level.
a. Propaganda must reinforce anxiety concerning the consequences of defeat
b. Propaganda must diminish anxiety (other than concerning the consequences of defeat) which is too high and which cannot be reduced by people themselves
17. Propaganda to the home front must diminish the impact of frustration.
a. Inevitable frustrations must be anticipated
b. Inevitable frustrations must be placed in perspective
18. Propaganda must facilitate the displacement of aggression by specifying the targets for hatred.
19. Propaganda cannot immediately affect strong counter-tendencies; instead it must offer some form of action or diversion, or both.
B.VDBOS said:
Are you saying that release of the Abu Ghirab pictures was meant to initiate Nicholas Berg's killing?
Are you also saying the the killer was not whom he said he was?
speaker
Re: Re: terrorist ?
Sorry to be quoting old posts, but I just noticed this thread.
Sorry to be quoting old posts, but I just noticed this thread.
Those are the ones that get their news from Fox News. 😀TugaTweaker said:
I prefer: an eye for two, a tooth for a jaw.
You are implying it needs come from petrol. Total bull$hit. The French have figured it right: over 85% of their electricity comes from nuclear energy. Nuclear energy is the greatest achievement of humankind, and the ignorant and paranoid masses in Amerikha have stymied more widespread adoption of the best source of energy we'll have until fusion becomes controlled. And don't bring up Chernobyl. The results of long term studies have shown NO measurable increase in cancer rates among the general population. People are more resistant to radiation than what is generally perceived.millwood said:
Hans L said:Lighten up guys, Millwood is just fooling around. I've only been here for a few days now, but it seems obvious to me that when the discussion isn't going the way he wants it to go, he just turns into a regular clown
Joking around, or just making fun in a corny kind of way, but when the topic concerns the US, most of his efforts seem to be directed to provoking ppl while squalling the US is the best in everything among everyone.
In other words, he's a troll. If this were Slashdot, his posts would be moderated -1, Flamebait (and to insert a totally off-topic brag, yesterday I actually got a post moderated to the max, +5). Which brings up an interesting idea -- using a similar moderation system here. Then posts would not have to be deleted, and users can set a threshold at which to read comments that would skip the ones modded down.
Excellent little essay here:
http://www.gortbusters.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=141
It is not difficult to understand the behavior of the US when it is viewed as an empire, and the article shows that empire is not just an analogy for the US, it is an isomorphism.
This is not to say that leaders in the empire are not concerned about the wellbeing of their unwilling subjects. I may have been fooled, but I do think that people like Rumsfeld are partly driven in their policy by an actual belief that they are doing The Right Thing(TM). The problem is that this is no different from the crusaders; such attempts are misguided, partly because they are based on morals dicated by religion, and are thus as arbitrary as religions are arbitrary products of human social evolution, and also partly due to the following: our way of life, which the leaders of the empire are trying to impose on the arabs, including and specifically our system of government (pseudodemocracy) and economics (capitalism-in-name-only-that-cannot-work-as-a-free-market-because-the-assumption-that-consumers-are-rational-is-plain-wrong), are products of western civilization, and have evolved together with western civilization over centuries. Expecting that you can just like that introduce a social system radically different from the one X has been using for centuries (replace X with arabs, africans, or whatever) is ludicrous.
As for terrorists: arabs have so many terrorists for a very simple reason: in ancient times they used to have a great civilization, and now they don't, being far behind the current king of the hill. It's envy, pure and simple.
Someone told me that the axis of evil is really Rumsfeld, Cheney, and Ashcroft. Seeing Rumsfeld nearly in tears after the current prisoner abuse debacle makes me doubt he's actually evil. What about possible replacements, then? What about the neocons, Perle, Wolfowitz, et. al.? I remember an editorial some months ago claiming they are losing influence. Oh well, Ashcroft makes an axis of evil all by himself just fine, having brought the US closer to a police state than anyone else. Add to this Rupert Murdoch/News Corp, who bring us such fine and unbiased media outlets as Fox News and their Fair and Balanced O'Reilly Factor, and is it any surprise what fun's happening in Amerikha?
http://www.gortbusters.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=141
It is not difficult to understand the behavior of the US when it is viewed as an empire, and the article shows that empire is not just an analogy for the US, it is an isomorphism.
This is not to say that leaders in the empire are not concerned about the wellbeing of their unwilling subjects. I may have been fooled, but I do think that people like Rumsfeld are partly driven in their policy by an actual belief that they are doing The Right Thing(TM). The problem is that this is no different from the crusaders; such attempts are misguided, partly because they are based on morals dicated by religion, and are thus as arbitrary as religions are arbitrary products of human social evolution, and also partly due to the following: our way of life, which the leaders of the empire are trying to impose on the arabs, including and specifically our system of government (pseudodemocracy) and economics (capitalism-in-name-only-that-cannot-work-as-a-free-market-because-the-assumption-that-consumers-are-rational-is-plain-wrong), are products of western civilization, and have evolved together with western civilization over centuries. Expecting that you can just like that introduce a social system radically different from the one X has been using for centuries (replace X with arabs, africans, or whatever) is ludicrous.
As for terrorists: arabs have so many terrorists for a very simple reason: in ancient times they used to have a great civilization, and now they don't, being far behind the current king of the hill. It's envy, pure and simple.
Someone told me that the axis of evil is really Rumsfeld, Cheney, and Ashcroft. Seeing Rumsfeld nearly in tears after the current prisoner abuse debacle makes me doubt he's actually evil. What about possible replacements, then? What about the neocons, Perle, Wolfowitz, et. al.? I remember an editorial some months ago claiming they are losing influence. Oh well, Ashcroft makes an axis of evil all by himself just fine, having brought the US closer to a police state than anyone else. Add to this Rupert Murdoch/News Corp, who bring us such fine and unbiased media outlets as Fox News and their Fair and Balanced O'Reilly Factor, and is it any surprise what fun's happening in Amerikha?
speaker said:
Im saying those pictures could not have been an accident
For otherwise normal people to commit torture, humiliation and rape.....AND to believe that they weren't doing anything wrong takes certain controlled conditions, not random mistakes
Who's in charge of these people?
Which structure are they part of?
What about the pictures that are two bad to be released?
what do they contain?
Maby normal people cutting off heads 😱
speaker said:
There is no evidence what so ever the killer is who bush & Co.
says he is
Just another witch hunt
May I propose that you search the net for info on the mistreatment of prisoners in U.S. to better understand the whole issue.
It is fact that "physical and sexual abuse of prisoners, similar to what has been uncovered in Iraq, takes place in prisons of the United States..." (quoted from The New York Times).
So it becomes clearer why this happened - because they did what they were used to do all the time,
and why the U.S. goverment did not react - because they (Bush, Rumsfeld, etc.) are deeply convinced that this is exactly the way how these people shall be treated.
It is fact that "physical and sexual abuse of prisoners, similar to what has been uncovered in Iraq, takes place in prisons of the United States..." (quoted from The New York Times).
So it becomes clearer why this happened - because they did what they were used to do all the time,
and why the U.S. goverment did not react - because they (Bush, Rumsfeld, etc.) are deeply convinced that this is exactly the way how these people shall be treated.
So if you plan to spend some time in prison, better come to Canada. Our prisons are way nicer. 😀
Hi,
From what we've been shown on the news channels it looks as if U.S criminals that get caught and sent to prison not only get punished for their actions but by the same token also lose all their rights as a human being.
At least that's what it looks like....
Makes me wonder why they bother to put them in prison at all, the chance of those guys ever functioning normally in society must be close to nihil and they'd still cost society a ton of money too.
That POWs receive a similar treatment doesn't come as a big surprise then.
They're really setting high standards, those people that are bound to free the world from dictators and terrorists...
Cheers,😉
From what we've been shown on the news channels it looks as if U.S criminals that get caught and sent to prison not only get punished for their actions but by the same token also lose all their rights as a human being.
At least that's what it looks like....
Makes me wonder why they bother to put them in prison at all, the chance of those guys ever functioning normally in society must be close to nihil and they'd still cost society a ton of money too.
That POWs receive a similar treatment doesn't come as a big surprise then.
They're really setting high standards, those people that are bound to free the world from dictators and terrorists...
Cheers,😉
A key phrase. A bit of selection and editing can make things look like whatever the producer would like it to. That said, prison is no picnic, but in general, you have to do something pretty bad to end up there. And in general, the prisons are pretty scrupulous about following the rules; that's why when something contrary comes out, it's news.
If you ever have the chance to read John Waters' essay on teaching a film course at the state penitentiary, I'd recommend it- it's reprinted in the book "Crackpot."
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