Temp setup: BEST MID AND TWEET we can buy ?

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#21
The 4" Flex probably was an error; perhaps from being too lazy to check. At the time, the C-Quenze units were quite recent, and documentation was a bit spotty; or it may just have been my usual confusion 😉 .

18H. No, not tried any others of the current series. Did try the smallest of the Madisound units, which was a flex unit, (not the 18H they carry now) quite a while ago. Since we're building a 3 way, and the 15H handles the low mid (150Hz and up) so very well, there was no incentive to try a larger size; and as indicated above, we cross over at 5 kHz, which we probably could not do with the larger unit.

If we'd known then what we know now about the importance of impeccable parts and construction, we could well have liked the Madisound unit enough to go from there. Same for the SS Revelator mid we tried.
 
#22
Curmudgeon : until i see scientific data comparing different cable designs that have the same electrical properties ( or close to ) i won't fall into the cable territory

then my ears aren't developped enough to differentiate good cables ..and i don't see how i could do it neway
i do not think that it is humanly possible to differentiate
differences that doesn't exists 😛

I am not comparing a 1$ solid cable to a 1000$ Tope of the line cable here... but any good quality home made or bought cable will work just fine ...

i've made cables from cheap wires that you wouldn't even dare to connect to your equipement, and believe me that no one was ever able to hear any differences betwen the commercial ones and the cheap diy
(with good design though )


You are correct that we do not "want" to hear the problems our system have

but the closer you get to 100% reproduction the less evident they get .. and unless you are an expert listener
( has you probably are since you talk like you are doing that stuff alot more often than regular folks like me who can only enjoy their system a few hours a week )
i don't see how the problems could cause a listening fatigue ( unless there are big problems that weren't dealt with )

I willl call solen to see if they have the Skaaning drivers

but please tell me what is the real nameof the company?
is Skaaning the name of the designer or ?

have you tried different tweeters to match this mid-woofer unit ?

and what exactly do you think that this unit does better than other mids drivers that sets it apart?

i do not mind paying 2-300$ for a unit if it performs heavenly!!! 🙂

thanks for your input 🙂
 
#24
Skanning is the name of the designer - taking the cumulative efforts of father and son, I don't think any"one" has more experience in transducer design. (..perhaps Ted or Maureen Jordan.)

Perhaps you have heard of Scan-Speak? ..possibly Dynaudio? Both were founded by Skanning senior I believe (..and latter sold/bought-out). I could be wrong but I think that senior got his start in the oldest "hi-fi" transducer Co. - Peerless.

Solen has some of the drivers.. BUT they are "cheaper" through Audio Technolgy (i.e. "direct").

http://www.audiotechnology.dk/iz.asp?id=4|a|133|||

Note that several have reported that the kapton former version is more detailed than the older versions.
 
#26
JinMTVT said:


I willl call solen to see if they have the Skaaning drivers

but please tell me what is the real nameof the company?
is Skaaning the name of the designer or ? ScottG answered this nicely. The link I posted above takes you to the Audiotechnology site, and directly to the price list.

have you tried different tweeters to match this mid-woofer unit ? No, the Scanspeak 9900 was such a good match that we looked no further. At one time most high end speakers used that tweeter. And it is still appearing in new designs.

and what exactly do you think that this unit does better than other mids drivers that sets it apart? Just about everything. Transparency comparable to electrostatics, excellent dynamics, easy to design with; a case of getting what you pay for. There may well be other mids that perform as well, we just haven't tried them all. We stopped when we found what we wanted.

i do not mind paying 2-300$ for a unit if it performs heavenly!!! 🙂

thanks for your input 🙂
Click to expand...


@ ScottG; 18W 8531 probably; the one we looked at was the first slit cone mid. We didn't know enough at the time to get the best out of it; going by the curves, the 12M and 15M would be looked at if we were starting today. And I think the 18 has been improved since the original.

We began this project 8 years ago; the revelator mid was evaluated fairly early on; we spent a lot of time trying to get the Accutons to do what we wanted, and learned a lot in the process. The Skaaning was after the Accutons, and it was not only "better" but much easier to work with.

The Scanspeak 25W and the D2905/9900 units were our first units evaluated, and we never looked back. Both very satisfactory. But the mid selection drove us up the wall. We wanted a modest slope xo, and at that time there were a lot of units introduced with stiff cones and wild high end breakup; so we messed with traps and such. That plus our reluctance to use really expensive xo components hindered progress. (And NEVER use clip leads to breadboard, and do run in the components before evaluation). If Dynaudio had not withdrawn from the amateur market, they would have been a likely choice; and the Skaaning has a strong family (sorry) resemblance of course to the Dynaudio.

As for cables, despite my having been a design engineer for many years, I don't let the lack of published convincing theory bother me; if it works, it works. Some manufacturers have consistently good cables, and some common denominators are: low DA dielectrics, teflon and air; high purity wire, fairly low C interconnects, and low L speaker cables. And anything further they consider proprietary.
 
#27
How about CSS's 4.5" Full Range Driver. Flat Freq. Response, low distortion.

http://www.creativesound.ca/details.php?model=WR125ST

Paired with Vifa's small faceplate tweeter. Reviewing Zaph's great work. Rule flat freq. response with low distortion.

http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi?cart_id=1944658.6961&pid=1325

The truncated frame and small faceplate help you get the drivers as close together as possible. The CSS 4.5" should be able to be crossover at 3,000 kHz or more, leaving only the highest harmonics for the Tweeter.
 
#30
#31
DIM I cannot say, as we did not look at Revelator 12M or 15M. I believe all are very good. We are not using Flex unit, we are using C-Quenze, the new design. Flex is old design.

12M, 15M, and C-Quenze 15H are all used in very very good commercial designs.
The 15H does all we want, so we did not look more.
 
#32
i have been looking around for drivers for this particular project for a few weeks
and it has speed up this week with the nice information i am beeing fed in here;

and i find it very hard, to understand and decide what
is the right drivers for my needs ...

how can one judge from the recommandations of other and decide on wich drivers to buy ?

even looking at graphics, wich most of the time aren't at the same scale or measured under compatible conditions ...

i have some money , i can buy a few drivers and test if necessary, but for someone with less "available" budget,
wihc is pretty commong nowadays and oh so understandable, buying 250$USD drivers and not getting the performance one expected of it ..
 
#33
http://www.gr-research.com/kits/av1.shtm ... ( http://www.gr-research.com/kits/av1freq.shtm )

Pretty hard to beat these kits ... parts can be purchased seperate as well including drivers, tweeters & crossover parts ...

The kits are very complete and you will save a few $$ by getting the kits: http://www.gr-research.com/kits/av1kit.shtm

(I made the mistake of first, just the buying drivers, tweeters & woofers, then getting the crossover parts later. If I had just gotten the complete kit in the first place = matched parts & more than enough added goodies to make the whole thing sing .... )

:smash:
 
#35
JinMTVT said:
i have been looking around for drivers for this particular project for a few weeks
and it has speed up this week with the nice information i am beeing fed in here;

and i find it very hard, to understand and decide what
is the right drivers for my needs ...

how can one judge from the recommandations of other and decide on wich drivers to buy ?

even looking at graphics, wich most of the time aren't at the same scale or measured under compatible conditions ...

i have some money , i can buy a few drivers and test if necessary, but for someone with less "available" budget,
wihc is pretty commong nowadays and oh so understandable, buying 250$USD drivers and not getting the performance one expected of it ..
Click to expand...


oh - its worse than that..

then there is how it performs in a box.. (and this is not simply a matter of modeling for low freq. performance).

next is how it performs on a baffle..

finally.. how will it perform with other drivers via a multitude of different available crossover types, cross-points, and the audible effects of each passive component in the crossover.

this effectivly leaves a few suggestions:
1. build a proven design
2. try a "fullrange" driver in a simplistic box - or choose a "fullrange
driver carefully for an open baffle config. and build or by a subwoofer to acompany it.
3. by a good modeling program with measurement capability (Liberty Audio Suite or Sound Easy), and start learning more of the basics behind good design.
4. "wing it" and expect to be somewhat dissapointed with the results.
 
#36
"and i find it very hard, to understand and decide what
is the right drivers for my needs ..."

That's a very different question from "what is the best...?" And possibly a better question.

"how can one judge from the recommandations of other and decide on wich drivers to buy ?" That is difficult. But try to find recommendations that fit your circumstances. For example, you did not say that you have any theoretical background or measuring or simulation tools. If that's the case, then kit recommendations might be a guide to good advice. For our project, we bought quite a few test speakers, but that is expensive and slow, and you need experience to evaluate the drivers anyway. Kits are a very good way to begin to gather that experience.

Some of the suggestions above seem to be well worth trying; don't try for "best" (yet), but try for a good, musical, affordable, project that you'll be able to finish in a reasonable time. If it is not to your standards, you've learned something, and off it goes to the guest bedroom and you have a reason to start your 2nd project. 😉
 
#37
Some of the suggestions above seem to be well worth trying; don't try for "best" (yet), but try for a good, musical, affordable, project that you'll be able to finish in a reasonable time. If it is not to your standards, you've learned something, and off it goes to the guest bedroom and you have a reason to start your 2nd project. 😉
Click to expand...

AMEN . 🙂
 
#39
JinMTVT said:
Beeing there,

can most of the mentionned drivers be used in a open baffle design ?


Then how do i know if i need 2 mids or only 1 per side?
Is there a correct way to compared efficiency
and predict output spl ?
Click to expand...

in effect - any driver can be used that way..

its more a matter of how well it will cope with a reduction in spl for a given freq. and baffle size.

play with this program:
http://www.tolvan.com/edge/

..notice that it has a check-box for open baffle. play with various baffle configurations and driver sizes to see the effects on the freq. response.
 
#40
Thinking a little more about the question, how does one get good recommendations? Some suggestions (in no particular order) for information that would help others make useful suggestions:

  • What is your budget?
    Schedule?
    Design, testing capability?
    Woodworking capability?
    What kinds of music do you listen to?
    How loudly?
    Room Size?
    Preferred speaker size and style; small on stands, large floorstanding, or even bookshelf?
    How much bass do you want?
    What have you heard that you liked?
    Associated equipment?
    Do you prefer an "exciting" sound, or a natural sound?
I expect others will have additions too 🙂 .
 
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