So, the Monacor woofer looks nice and should be fine. The Monacor tweeter I'm not so sure about. If you want to keep the TDL crossover the Monacor tweeter will be stressed.
The original TDL tweeter could go much lower and they used a very shallow slope crossover. The Monacor tweeter would be getting too much midrange and unless you keep the volume down it will sound very rough.
If Wilmslow has a ready made crossover for this Monacor pairing that might be a good idea but then you're straying from the TDL way. TDL did it that way for a reason. The alternative is a using a different tweeter that goes lower such as the Monacor DT-300.
The Monacor woofer is nice if a bit pricey. The DT-100 tweeter is cheaper which makes up for the woofer's higher price. If you go for a tweeter like the DT-300 which is more in tune with the original TDL way it will be a bit more expensive.
If you don't keep the original crossover then you'll have to figure out how to remove the original, how to mount the new one and you will definitely need to do some soldering.
We haven't even got to the issue of "do they fit the holes?"
The original TDL tweeter could go much lower and they used a very shallow slope crossover. The Monacor tweeter would be getting too much midrange and unless you keep the volume down it will sound very rough.
If Wilmslow has a ready made crossover for this Monacor pairing that might be a good idea but then you're straying from the TDL way. TDL did it that way for a reason. The alternative is a using a different tweeter that goes lower such as the Monacor DT-300.
The Monacor woofer is nice if a bit pricey. The DT-100 tweeter is cheaper which makes up for the woofer's higher price. If you go for a tweeter like the DT-300 which is more in tune with the original TDL way it will be a bit more expensive.
If you don't keep the original crossover then you'll have to figure out how to remove the original, how to mount the new one and you will definitely need to do some soldering.
We haven't even got to the issue of "do they fit the holes?"
Hi,
I've put this suggestion to Neil at Wilmslow Audio and will await his reply.
For information the size of the holes is :
Woofer : seems to be 14.8 cm
Tweeter : at the extremities (as it's not round) 9 x 7.5 cm
I only have a basic school ruler to measure with so there might be a 1-2 mm difference, not more. Does this matter?
I have communicated this information to Neil.
I've put this suggestion to Neil at Wilmslow Audio and will await his reply.
For information the size of the holes is :
Woofer : seems to be 14.8 cm
Tweeter : at the extremities (as it's not round) 9 x 7.5 cm
I only have a basic school ruler to measure with so there might be a 1-2 mm difference, not more. Does this matter?
I have communicated this information to Neil.
The Monacor woofer should be OK but the tweeter opening has an odd shape.
Whatever tweeter you end up has to fit within it and has to cover it.
Send Neil that picture you have of the tweeter opening.
Hi Steve 'system7'
I only just realised I could post back to individual messages (yes, I know!)
Thanks for your last post. I'm in contact with Neil at Wilmslow Audio and will put your suggestions to him. He initially mentionned the DT-100 tweeter but cm6 seems to think it might not have enough welly to be comfortable at fairly high volumes (sorry, my language is not very technical!) and suggests the DT-300. What's your opinion on that one?
I'll ask Neil about the woofer suggestions you have. He has initially suggested the Monacor SPH-170 (which you also suggested if I remember correctly). But I'll ask him about the WA woofers you suggest and the ELAC ones too. He doesn't seem to think of me as a huge money-spinning project ;-) so I think he'll probably just be honest.
Thanks again!
I only just realised I could post back to individual messages (yes, I know!)
Thanks for your last post. I'm in contact with Neil at Wilmslow Audio and will put your suggestions to him. He initially mentionned the DT-100 tweeter but cm6 seems to think it might not have enough welly to be comfortable at fairly high volumes (sorry, my language is not very technical!) and suggests the DT-300. What's your opinion on that one?
I'll ask Neil about the woofer suggestions you have. He has initially suggested the Monacor SPH-170 (which you also suggested if I remember correctly). But I'll ask him about the WA woofers you suggest and the ELAC ones too. He doesn't seem to think of me as a huge money-spinning project ;-) so I think he'll probably just be honest.
Thanks again!
Just to sketch out some thoughts on the tweeter:
This picture looks like the bass is unscrewed and sitting low, but these two Monacor tweeters are contenders to replace if necessary:
Monacor DT-100 Size 116x80mm
Monacor DT-250 Size 116x86mm
The second one looks loud at 92dB, and might need crossover modifications. But the bass is the main issue right now.
Hi Steve, there seems to be a difference of opinion on the tweeter replacement so I thought I'd run it past you if you don't mind as you mentionned the two. Neil from Wilmslow Audio suggests the DT-100 and seems to want to stick with that. cm6 seems to think the DT-100 wouldn't have enough welly and would be "stressed" at not-low volumes so he thinks the DT-250 would be better. Neil seems to be sticking to his guns (maybe from the installation point of view too) and thinks the DT-100 would be the best option, even though I'd be quite prepared to pay more if he felt that would be a better option. Do you have any thoughts on that one? If they were your speakers and you were just looking for the right sound (rather than being interested in the HiFi itself if you see what I mean) what do you think you would go for?
Anna
Not sure it is, Surtsey. I think we were looking for a pair of Elac polycones. That looks like paper to me, whatever Cobex is.
Hi Anna. Still battling away at it!
I think the Monacor DT100 looks a very reasonable choice:
Monacor DT-100 Size 116x80mm
MONACOR: DT-100
Should be OK on a first order capacitor filter. It would help to know the values here on what looks like a biwire crossover. I think we have decided it's coil and cap bass with RC impedance correction. Resistor and capacitor to tweeter.
148mm woofer cutout would fit either of these:
MONACOR: SPH-165
MONACOR: SPH-165CP
Neill at Wilmslow may have some experience of this modification.
Hi Anna. Still battling away at it!
I think the Monacor DT100 looks a very reasonable choice:
Monacor DT-100 Size 116x80mm
MONACOR: DT-100
Should be OK on a first order capacitor filter. It would help to know the values here on what looks like a biwire crossover. I think we have decided it's coil and cap bass with RC impedance correction. Resistor and capacitor to tweeter.
148mm woofer cutout would fit either of these:
MONACOR: SPH-165
MONACOR: SPH-165CP
Neill at Wilmslow may have some experience of this modification.
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Just to sketch out some thoughts on the tweeter:
This picture looks like the bass is unscrewed and sitting low, but these two Monacor tweeters are contenders to replace if necessary:
Monacor DT-100 Size 116x80mm
Monacor DT-250 Size 116x86mm
The second one looks loud at 92dB, and might need crossover modifications. But the bass is the main issue right now.
Not sure it is, Surtsey. I think we were looking for a pair of Elac polycones.
Hi Anna. Still battling away at it!
I think the Monacor DT100 looks a very reasonable choice:
Monacor DT-100 Size 116x80mm
MONACOR: DT-100
Should be OK on a first order capacitor filter. It would help to know the values here on what looks like a biwire crossover. I think we have decided it's coil and cap bass with RC impedance correction. Resistor and capacitor to tweeter.
148mm woofer cutout would fit either of these:
MONACOR: SPH-165
MONACOR: SPH-165CP
Neill at Wilmslow may have some experience of this modification.
Thanks for that!
As a final note from me I'd like to point out that the resonant frequency of the DT-100 is twice that of the original tweeter which is why I suggested that the 6db crossover of the TDL is too shallow. Monacor even recommends a 12db crossover. Would 6db work? Yes. Would it sound good? Maybe. Could the DT-100 be damaged if you crank the volume on rock? Probably.
Having said that, it is probably much easier to install the DT-100.
Also if Wilmslow supplied a higher slope crossover that would solve the possibility of a blown up tweeter.
A question for cm6.
Wilmslow's data suggest to me DT100 1.5KHz resonance, minimum crossover frequency 2.5KHz and ferrofluid damping. The DT250 specification is 1.75KHz and crossover frequency 3KHz with no ferrofluid. What was the resonance frequency of the original driver?
Interestingly checking the manufacturers website DT-250 didn't get me to a data page, so it looks like it is end of life as a product. Although there will be many sitting around on shelves in speaker shops.
I do take your point about first order crossovers and tweeters, and at least a second or third order acoustic roll in is often a better and safer choice for myriad reasons.
Agree that if the Wilmslow crossover is 2nd order there will be a bigger safety margin on not blowing the tweeter at parties. Always be careful with the volume control, if it sounds bad time to back the volume off.
Wilmslow's data suggest to me DT100 1.5KHz resonance, minimum crossover frequency 2.5KHz and ferrofluid damping. The DT250 specification is 1.75KHz and crossover frequency 3KHz with no ferrofluid. What was the resonance frequency of the original driver?
Interestingly checking the manufacturers website DT-250 didn't get me to a data page, so it looks like it is end of life as a product. Although there will be many sitting around on shelves in speaker shops.
I do take your point about first order crossovers and tweeters, and at least a second or third order acoustic roll in is often a better and safer choice for myriad reasons.
Agree that if the Wilmslow crossover is 2nd order there will be a bigger safety margin on not blowing the tweeter at parties. Always be careful with the volume control, if it sounds bad time to back the volume off.
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On post #19 I attached an Elac driver spec sheet. It shows the 25DT 49 with a Fs of 650Hz.
I never suggested the Monacor DT250. I said Monacor DT300 as more suitable other than the mounting issue.
Just took a quick look on Google but couldn't find a picture of the back of an ELAC tweeter. I would think it would have a biggish cylinder covering the magnet and sticking back 2 inches or so. Usually the pole piece had a hole through it leading to the chamber in back which would have foam or fiberglass in it. If it does, that might explain the big goofy mounting hole. Most low Fs 25mm tweeters have that chamber in back.
To echo system7's points, I think Wilmslow audio have probably done this mod a few times now.
Seems like your coming to the end of this quest.
I do hope so! But I think I'll still come to the forum! Even though I understand no more than half of what's being said it's very more-ish!
I'll keep you up to date!