Yea, that's what I had heard. Pedja's objection had been using those caps in the signal path, but I don't know how they'd do performing the decoupling task.Elso Kwak said:
Today, for the first time, I decided to try CS8412 without 3n3 cap between pins 20 and 21. Well, it seems to be better without it.
Anybody else tried to compare that?
I'm using 0.47 BG NX and 220R Caddock in PLL filter section presently.
Anybody else tried to compare that?
I'm using 0.47 BG NX and 220R Caddock in PLL filter section presently.
Peter Daniel said:
Interesting Pete, so is this the best combination you have tried so far including 3n3,220nf and 470R?
I've still not finished Pedja's dac and my parallel dac with tube output is run from 12S so I'll look forward to experimenting with the CS8412 in Pedja's dac.
I'm just searching around trying to find a nice transport🙂
It's seems like this combination works OK.
Removing 3n3 cap increases transparency and immediacy. It may seem a bit harsh though, so I can see why some people prefer that additional filter cap.
The filter components are pretty important for overall sound and I noticed that by increasing capacitance the sound becomes more substantial with better midrange presence (but this may be also due to the parts types as I was using BG N caps). I went as high as 4.7u, but somehow didn't like it that much as midrange was overpowering the highs extention (less air). So I settled on 0.47u BG NX cap ( as I have quite a lot of them) and Caddock resistor. I tried Tantalum, Vishay and Riken, but Caddock sounded the best to me. As to the value, I calculated that 400R should be used, but since I don't have it at the moment 220R works fine presently.
Yes, it seems like a nice combination, and some veiling is removed with very direct and natural sound. It maybe a bit forward, but this may be system dependant.
I also tried Scientific Conversion transformers, and although very good, I still prefer my input driver, based on Kusunoki 3rd DAC. Proper bypass choices are critical for the right sound signature.
Of course all those impressions were with TDA1543 DAC, but since we are talking input receiver here, and not the DAC, I think it applies to the other DAC as well.
I'm using ML 31.5 for a transport presently. It's pretty good 😉
Removing 3n3 cap increases transparency and immediacy. It may seem a bit harsh though, so I can see why some people prefer that additional filter cap.
The filter components are pretty important for overall sound and I noticed that by increasing capacitance the sound becomes more substantial with better midrange presence (but this may be also due to the parts types as I was using BG N caps). I went as high as 4.7u, but somehow didn't like it that much as midrange was overpowering the highs extention (less air). So I settled on 0.47u BG NX cap ( as I have quite a lot of them) and Caddock resistor. I tried Tantalum, Vishay and Riken, but Caddock sounded the best to me. As to the value, I calculated that 400R should be used, but since I don't have it at the moment 220R works fine presently.
Yes, it seems like a nice combination, and some veiling is removed with very direct and natural sound. It maybe a bit forward, but this may be system dependant.
I also tried Scientific Conversion transformers, and although very good, I still prefer my input driver, based on Kusunoki 3rd DAC. Proper bypass choices are critical for the right sound signature.
Of course all those impressions were with TDA1543 DAC, but since we are talking input receiver here, and not the DAC, I think it applies to the other DAC as well.
I'm using ML 31.5 for a transport presently. It's pretty good 😉
Yes, those are SN75179BP. I'm using Panasonic AN8005 regulator with 10u OsCon bypass here. Oscon works better than BG N. Also ferrite bead on PS line for this chip. I'm using ferrite on digital supply of CS8412 as well, but definitely not on the analog supply (it sounds worse with it). No other bypass caps (ceramic or whatever).
For the input coupling, I found those blue Vishay/ROE caps to be the best, very transparent and neutral. 75R resistor is Caddock.
Drop me an e-mail, and I'll send you one of those regulators. 😉
For the input coupling, I found those blue Vishay/ROE caps to be the best, very transparent and neutral. 75R resistor is Caddock.
Drop me an e-mail, and I'll send you one of those regulators. 😉
Peter Daniel said:
I remember you reported some time ago that results were better with ceramics as bypass caps. What else has changed in the setup ? For some time I don't parallel any caps and I am pleased with the results.
BTW the loop filter is critical in value but even more critical in wire length. It is important to keep wire lenghts as short as possible. The original values are not bad either, sometimes those datasheets do make sense.....
I changed the filtering on PS (CRC arrangement). Adding ceramic bypasses now creates the opposite effect: the sound becomes dry and less airy. I noticed a similar effect with TDA1541 DAC. I don't even use any small bypasses before regulators as they also don't sound right now. The sound with the electrolytics alone is pure and not colored. I'm using OsCons on input driver and BG N type everywhere else (rather small values).
The length of my PLL loop is as short as possible. While ceramic caps may be better from technical POV, unfortunately I didn't find them sounding good. Also the standard value ( 0.047u ) is not available in my favourite cap for that purpose, so I had to go with a different value.
From what I read, if you double the resistor value, cap value should quadruple.
J-P, what is your experience with 3n3 cap? While I enjoyed the DAC without it for most part of a day, towards the evening I put it back in and I think it will stay there. The sound was too bright on certain material.
The length of my PLL loop is as short as possible. While ceramic caps may be better from technical POV, unfortunately I didn't find them sounding good. Also the standard value ( 0.047u ) is not available in my favourite cap for that purpose, so I had to go with a different value.
From what I read, if you double the resistor value, cap value should quadruple.
J-P, what is your experience with 3n3 cap? While I enjoyed the DAC without it for most part of a day, towards the evening I put it back in and I think it will stay there. The sound was too bright on certain material.
Just a quick question regarding non polar BG caps, which way is best to connect the NP marked side in the negative supply
Cheers
Cheers
With positive supply I prefer NP on + . With negative, I'm connecting NP on - , but I still have to experiment with it more.
However, with TDA1541 -15V supply, I actually prefer it the other way (NP on ground, 33/16 BG N)
I'm assuming the longer lead is outer foil and it goes to ground, or the output.
However, with TDA1541 -15V supply, I actually prefer it the other way (NP on ground, 33/16 BG N)
I'm assuming the longer lead is outer foil and it goes to ground, or the output.
I am pretty sure the longer lead is always the "Positive" as with regular Caps and LED's as well.
Regards
Anthony
Peter Daniel said:
Cheers Peter🙂
I was still surprised listening to the difference between which way the BG N's used in signal coupling was fitted.
It was very noticeable
The longer lead is positve on regular electrolytics. With BG, the orientation is not important with regards to polarity as they are bipolar. However, with certain orientation in a circuit, they sound better. I just stated my preferrence. Your milage may vary 😉Coulomb said:
I believe it's also opposite to what BG suggests in their literature 😉
OK,
Where you aware that Rubycon will no longer be manufacturing Black Gate caps for Jel Max? Jel Max has statred it will not seek another manufacturer and plans on terminating distribution when there stock runs out.
Regards
Anthony
Where you aware that Rubycon will no longer be manufacturing Black Gate caps for Jel Max? Jel Max has statred it will not seek another manufacturer and plans on terminating distribution when there stock runs out.
Regards
Anthony
Yes, I've heard about it. But both Percy and Partsconnexion are stocking up to have them available for another two years. So it's not that bad as it seemed initially 😉
Yes, its worth trying these things out.
I never even realised until Peter posted his results, I thought he was mad but tried it anyway and was glad I did😉
I never even realised until Peter posted his results, I thought he was mad but tried it anyway and was glad I did😉
I recently purchased 28 BG NX-HQ .47uf Caps for decoupling 2 TDA1541A DACs as you highly reccomend these for this application.
Regards
Anthony
Regards
Anthony
I don't recall it was highly recommended. I just mentioned that I tried them in a circuit and they sounded nice (as they did) 😉
However, at the moment I'm using different caps. BTW, I was only using 24 of them. They are still my first choice for PLL cap (at least at the moment) 😉
For proper perspective, I recommend this thread: http://pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?threadid=4869&perpage=15&pagenumber=1
It's about never ending journey with parts substitution and choices we make to optimize a piece of electronics 😉
However, at the moment I'm using different caps. BTW, I was only using 24 of them. They are still my first choice for PLL cap (at least at the moment) 😉
For proper perspective, I recommend this thread: http://pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?threadid=4869&perpage=15&pagenumber=1
It's about never ending journey with parts substitution and choices we make to optimize a piece of electronics 😉
- Status
- Not open for further replies.