Hello and thank you for this great resource.
I have read many TC9 Line array posts but still possibly not enough. I have some questions please:
I want to make a PA speaker using 8 of the TC9FD18-08 and a sub, trying to avoid complexity where possible.
Yes, I'm trying to achieve vaguely similar to a BOSE L1 Model 2 system on the cheap! I realise this maybe doesn't count as an array so forgive my use of the term.
1. Is 8 drivers going to be enough to play a medium sized pub with guitar and vocals? (with a 12" sub).
-I'm happy to get more. Does the 83.5dB per driver figure get better in an array?
2. On the front baffle side of the box, can I simply lay the drivers onto wooden runners and just butt them together where they collide, and just seal where they butt together? They'd be close together that way no? I realise this sounds like blasphemy!
3. Inside the box, If I were to lay-in length-ways, angled bead on 2 adjacent sides, would this (with stuffing) be a simple way to help with internal reflections? Imagine say a shallow roof shaped bead all the way along. Is it Ok reflections-wise to have a flat side with a slightly roof shaped side opposite?
-or should I lay these on all 3 sides? or something else?
4. Considering I'm only aiming for P.A quality, do I need to worry about the speakers interacting? e.g RCF EVOX 8 don't bother isolating their 8 drivers..?
5. Chris661 had problems with this design creating too much HF at high distance and tamed it using a Low pass XO on some of the drivers. I'm guessing I will have this problem too. Can anyone guide me on how to make a low pass XO? I should probably message Chris!
6. Another PA array guy called Peter Pan angled his drivers left and right in the column. Would this help with the 'too much HF thing' above and negate the need for a XO?
7. Given the specs of the above speakers, If I were to assume a real-world figure of say 20 watts a driver (x8=160W), is the AIYIMA A07 Max in bridge mode going to be enough to drive them? They are quoting 300W with 48V 5A supply which may be optimistic!
8. The sub will hopefully provide a HP OUT of about 150Hz which I will feed to the Aiyima. I'm already starting to wish I'd bought an amp with treble control...
-Any thoughts on this please?
Any help gratefuly received. I have tried to provide links wherever possible. Cheers!
I have read many TC9 Line array posts but still possibly not enough. I have some questions please:
I want to make a PA speaker using 8 of the TC9FD18-08 and a sub, trying to avoid complexity where possible.
Yes, I'm trying to achieve vaguely similar to a BOSE L1 Model 2 system on the cheap! I realise this maybe doesn't count as an array so forgive my use of the term.
1. Is 8 drivers going to be enough to play a medium sized pub with guitar and vocals? (with a 12" sub).
-I'm happy to get more. Does the 83.5dB per driver figure get better in an array?
2. On the front baffle side of the box, can I simply lay the drivers onto wooden runners and just butt them together where they collide, and just seal where they butt together? They'd be close together that way no? I realise this sounds like blasphemy!
3. Inside the box, If I were to lay-in length-ways, angled bead on 2 adjacent sides, would this (with stuffing) be a simple way to help with internal reflections? Imagine say a shallow roof shaped bead all the way along. Is it Ok reflections-wise to have a flat side with a slightly roof shaped side opposite?
-or should I lay these on all 3 sides? or something else?
4. Considering I'm only aiming for P.A quality, do I need to worry about the speakers interacting? e.g RCF EVOX 8 don't bother isolating their 8 drivers..?
5. Chris661 had problems with this design creating too much HF at high distance and tamed it using a Low pass XO on some of the drivers. I'm guessing I will have this problem too. Can anyone guide me on how to make a low pass XO? I should probably message Chris!
6. Another PA array guy called Peter Pan angled his drivers left and right in the column. Would this help with the 'too much HF thing' above and negate the need for a XO?
7. Given the specs of the above speakers, If I were to assume a real-world figure of say 20 watts a driver (x8=160W), is the AIYIMA A07 Max in bridge mode going to be enough to drive them? They are quoting 300W with 48V 5A supply which may be optimistic!
8. The sub will hopefully provide a HP OUT of about 150Hz which I will feed to the Aiyima. I'm already starting to wish I'd bought an amp with treble control...
-Any thoughts on this please?
Any help gratefuly received. I have tried to provide links wherever possible. Cheers!
1) Sensitivity goes up 3dB per doubling of drivers and cabinet volume, so 8 of the 83.5 sensitive drivers =93.5dB sensitivity for the array.
The 8 drivers can hit around 110dB without exceeding Xmax at 115Hz, 114dB at 150 Hz. With 200 watts, should hit around 115dB.
By comparison, that’s less than a decent single 8”/tweeter output.
2) You could, but don’t. The drivers really need support all the way around.
A circle hole router jig makes cutting the holes easy, hard to get accurate enough with a jig saw.
3) That angled bead will do nothing useful. Lining or stuffing the cabinet will be sufficient to reduce internal reflections.
4) You could get by without, but the dividers add bracing as well as reducing the longer resonant modes. Using at least a center brace would be a good idea, I separated my 6 driver TC9 line into two sections.
Put pole mounts in the top and bottom so can stack them with a pipe between.
5) The multiple HF sources do not combine constructively until the far field, consequently in the near field there is HF “comb filtering” going on, reducing the HF level there. In practice, the reduced HF near the source and added “presence” at distance helps with intelligibility and cutting through bar noise, without too much HF level near the source.
The near field for the low end ends at less than one meter, and the line without EQ drops from F3 to it’s top end. Reducing the outer or lower drivers HF level with low pass XO will require a large HF boost for center pair, which could be enough to burn the remaining drivers or clip the amp.
6) The splay would widen the VHF dispersion a bit, but reduce coherency at distance. Better to simply use a single tweeter and cross all the in line cones lower if you are concerned about the frequency dependent change in response from near to far field.
7) 300 watts into 4 ohms should be in the ballpark, though a 48V 5A supply may be close to the edge for the 50V filter caps used in the Aiyima A07 Max.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...3255-amplifier-with-mono-stereo-output.48226/
I recently purchased three of the Fossi Audio V3, they use 63V filter caps.
8) A tone control probably won’t provide enough EQ control to adequately compensate for the cabinet’s response, especially if using HF shading.
A 1/3 octave or parametric EQ would be useful if your mixer doesn’t already include them.
Art
The 8 drivers can hit around 110dB without exceeding Xmax at 115Hz, 114dB at 150 Hz. With 200 watts, should hit around 115dB.
By comparison, that’s less than a decent single 8”/tweeter output.
2) You could, but don’t. The drivers really need support all the way around.
A circle hole router jig makes cutting the holes easy, hard to get accurate enough with a jig saw.
3) That angled bead will do nothing useful. Lining or stuffing the cabinet will be sufficient to reduce internal reflections.
4) You could get by without, but the dividers add bracing as well as reducing the longer resonant modes. Using at least a center brace would be a good idea, I separated my 6 driver TC9 line into two sections.
Put pole mounts in the top and bottom so can stack them with a pipe between.
5) The multiple HF sources do not combine constructively until the far field, consequently in the near field there is HF “comb filtering” going on, reducing the HF level there. In practice, the reduced HF near the source and added “presence” at distance helps with intelligibility and cutting through bar noise, without too much HF level near the source.
The near field for the low end ends at less than one meter, and the line without EQ drops from F3 to it’s top end. Reducing the outer or lower drivers HF level with low pass XO will require a large HF boost for center pair, which could be enough to burn the remaining drivers or clip the amp.
6) The splay would widen the VHF dispersion a bit, but reduce coherency at distance. Better to simply use a single tweeter and cross all the in line cones lower if you are concerned about the frequency dependent change in response from near to far field.
7) 300 watts into 4 ohms should be in the ballpark, though a 48V 5A supply may be close to the edge for the 50V filter caps used in the Aiyima A07 Max.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...3255-amplifier-with-mono-stereo-output.48226/
I recently purchased three of the Fossi Audio V3, they use 63V filter caps.
8) A tone control probably won’t provide enough EQ control to adequately compensate for the cabinet’s response, especially if using HF shading.
A 1/3 octave or parametric EQ would be useful if your mixer doesn’t already include them.
Art
Last edited:
Thank you very much for your most excellent reply! So much good information in there and it's all really good news!!
I've read it many times because I'm still getting to grips with the theory.
I'm sorry to say I have already fitted the bead strip into the back of the cabs before your reply came.
Yesterday, I was trawling through the classifieds, trying to find something ready-built that resembled a cabinet.
My wife had the great idea that a CD rack is shaped like what I was looking for, so I had one within the hour for £10!!
Anyway it seems to have a lot going for it, in that the internal size (of a CD!) seems good Vs the Vas and the ribbing inside might be sonically helpful? The volume per driver will be slightly bigger than the internal dimensions of a CD because I will be adding a front baffle which will lengthen by 15mm. I make it 1.67L.
-It's pretty sturdy too although I will add a brace in the middle as you suggested.
Also, I have ordered a previously mentioned hole cutter because I don't have a router but I will make a proper baffle.
Not being used to levels of dB.. I'll guess I'll have to just see how loud 115 is.
I do have an interesting hand built parametric effects pedal actually, finally got a use for it!!!
I'll push on with mine but...Your build might be more suitable... Did you document it on here? Looks like you don't need a sub with it. How loud is yours if you don't mind me asking? What do you play through it? What size room can it cope with?
If I do need another cab, I've seen another identical CD rack for sale
Sounds like you think I might need another on top since you're suggesting the top pole mount?
I'm not going to tilt the drivers then, thanks for the info.
And as you probably guessed.. I'm not doing any Frequency shading or DSP.
Yes, I've thought about upping the caps to 63V, although someone else here has soak tested one to death at power and it's been alright. It's not within normal design parameters though granted.
I would have bought the Fosi V3 but the Max has bridge mode.
If this project doesn't work out, couldn't I use 2 Aiyima Max's to make my old Elecro Voice SX200's active??
-Or maybe I could buy a 36V battery pack, a class D sub and make the thing into a busking rig?
Thanks for your help, it has been very useful.
John
I've read it many times because I'm still getting to grips with the theory.
I'm sorry to say I have already fitted the bead strip into the back of the cabs before your reply came.
Yesterday, I was trawling through the classifieds, trying to find something ready-built that resembled a cabinet.
My wife had the great idea that a CD rack is shaped like what I was looking for, so I had one within the hour for £10!!
Anyway it seems to have a lot going for it, in that the internal size (of a CD!) seems good Vs the Vas and the ribbing inside might be sonically helpful? The volume per driver will be slightly bigger than the internal dimensions of a CD because I will be adding a front baffle which will lengthen by 15mm. I make it 1.67L.
-It's pretty sturdy too although I will add a brace in the middle as you suggested.
Also, I have ordered a previously mentioned hole cutter because I don't have a router but I will make a proper baffle.
Not being used to levels of dB.. I'll guess I'll have to just see how loud 115 is.
I do have an interesting hand built parametric effects pedal actually, finally got a use for it!!!
I'll push on with mine but...Your build might be more suitable... Did you document it on here? Looks like you don't need a sub with it. How loud is yours if you don't mind me asking? What do you play through it? What size room can it cope with?
If I do need another cab, I've seen another identical CD rack for sale
Sounds like you think I might need another on top since you're suggesting the top pole mount?I'm not going to tilt the drivers then, thanks for the info.
And as you probably guessed.. I'm not doing any Frequency shading or DSP.
Yes, I've thought about upping the caps to 63V, although someone else here has soak tested one to death at power and it's been alright. It's not within normal design parameters though granted.
I would have bought the Fosi V3 but the Max has bridge mode.
If this project doesn't work out, couldn't I use 2 Aiyima Max's to make my old Elecro Voice SX200's active??
-Or maybe I could buy a 36V battery pack, a class D sub and make the thing into a busking rig?
Thanks for your help, it has been very useful.
John
Attachments
I didn't document my 6x 3.5" lines, never had them outside the house so far.
Definitely need subs, they are rolling off and run out of excursion below 100 Hz, there are another two+ octaves below that to cover. I'm using a pair of 15" under them for my home stereo.
At around 114 dB (each), they are not as loud as decent single 8”/tweeter cabinet's output, though I never play the stereo that loud.
Your line cabinets will have less volume than mine, so will require a bit more power to drive down low, though no problem if you cross as high as 150Hz.
Yes, you could use 2 Aiyima Max's to make your Electro Voice SX200's active.
They would be considerably louder, go lower and are more efficient than the TC9 x8 line.
With 200watts, the line hits 115dB, and about 125Hz is the bottom.
With 200watts, the SX200 is 125dB, (sounds twice as loud) and about 80Hz is the bottom- the Low E of a 6 string guitar. Unless you are doing a lot of hand thumping, you probably would not to use subs with them.
Art
Definitely need subs, they are rolling off and run out of excursion below 100 Hz, there are another two+ octaves below that to cover. I'm using a pair of 15" under them for my home stereo.
At around 114 dB (each), they are not as loud as decent single 8”/tweeter cabinet's output, though I never play the stereo that loud.
Your line cabinets will have less volume than mine, so will require a bit more power to drive down low, though no problem if you cross as high as 150Hz.
Yes, you could use 2 Aiyima Max's to make your Electro Voice SX200's active.
They would be considerably louder, go lower and are more efficient than the TC9 x8 line.
With 200watts, the line hits 115dB, and about 125Hz is the bottom.
With 200watts, the SX200 is 125dB, (sounds twice as loud) and about 80Hz is the bottom- the Low E of a 6 string guitar. Unless you are doing a lot of hand thumping, you probably would not to use subs with them.
Art
Thanks for that information. Your speakers look great! a pair of 15's wow, that sounds like a lot!
I do like the sound of the SX200's. Reviews of these are Marmite i.e People love them or hate them with a passion.
I tried to set up ARTA using my Scarlett 2i2 and my Rode NT1a but i didn't believe the results. I had to calibrate them using a cheap multi-meter on A/C Volts @ 400Hz. I do think the meter was capable actually. I have tested Fluke meters at work on A/C with a Sig Gen and they are surprisingly accurate up to around 30kHz. An Agilent bench meter is, even possibly past 100kHz. I used a correction file for the mic which was kindly posted on here a while back.
Anyway, I was doing something wrong because there were massive dips in the 7kHz and 9kHz which I didn't believe.
I have no idea how to use ARTA really.
The cab did need a slight boost in the upper regions but not a huge amount.
I like to test mids using Superunknown by Sound Garden because Brian Eno said it was a great mix in an interview once. This song makes all my speakers sound cr@p except the array, which sounds like it may need some more complex eq but still sounds pretty good really. Shame I'm not proficient in ARTA. Maybe I could try again with the mic correction off.
I don't have a proper sub or filtering so I dug out my Mackie amp from the loft and used the sub settings on that to make the SX200 into a rubbish sub to try the speaker out with various music, live guitar and vocals.
I am gobsmacked at how there's no mic feedback, even if you shove the mic right into the drivers!
I think they sound great live. I could only get the sub shelf filter thing to work at 125Hz and there's what seems like half an octave missing. This is with the array getting full range. I Just thought.. I should have sweep tested it using my phone. I definitely need a higher crossover point.
I think they have great potential live and I'm already wishing I'd put more drivers in!!!!
Thanks again for your help. I will try to find a sub and take the thing to a rehearsal room in a few weeks and see how angry it can get
I do like the sound of the SX200's. Reviews of these are Marmite i.e People love them or hate them with a passion.
I tried to set up ARTA using my Scarlett 2i2 and my Rode NT1a but i didn't believe the results. I had to calibrate them using a cheap multi-meter on A/C Volts @ 400Hz. I do think the meter was capable actually. I have tested Fluke meters at work on A/C with a Sig Gen and they are surprisingly accurate up to around 30kHz. An Agilent bench meter is, even possibly past 100kHz. I used a correction file for the mic which was kindly posted on here a while back.
Anyway, I was doing something wrong because there were massive dips in the 7kHz and 9kHz which I didn't believe.
I have no idea how to use ARTA really.
The cab did need a slight boost in the upper regions but not a huge amount.
I like to test mids using Superunknown by Sound Garden because Brian Eno said it was a great mix in an interview once. This song makes all my speakers sound cr@p except the array, which sounds like it may need some more complex eq but still sounds pretty good really. Shame I'm not proficient in ARTA. Maybe I could try again with the mic correction off.
I don't have a proper sub or filtering so I dug out my Mackie amp from the loft and used the sub settings on that to make the SX200 into a rubbish sub to try the speaker out with various music, live guitar and vocals.
I am gobsmacked at how there's no mic feedback, even if you shove the mic right into the drivers!
I think they sound great live. I could only get the sub shelf filter thing to work at 125Hz and there's what seems like half an octave missing. This is with the array getting full range. I Just thought.. I should have sweep tested it using my phone. I definitely need a higher crossover point.
I think they have great potential live and I'm already wishing I'd put more drivers in!!!!
Thanks again for your help. I will try to find a sub and take the thing to a rehearsal room in a few weeks and see how angry it can get
The Rode NT1a is a cardioid microphone, it's response changes with distance and angle- you want an omnidirectional mic for speaker testing. A "correction file" would only be good at the particular distance tested at, and your mic could vary from the mic the file was made for.
Massive dips in the 7kHz and 9kHz range of a line array tested in the near field does not sound unusual, the interference pattern close up is why there's no mic feedback when you shove the mic right into the drivers..
Massive dips in the 7kHz and 9kHz range of a line array tested in the near field does not sound unusual, the interference pattern close up is why there's no mic feedback when you shove the mic right into the drivers..
The Peerless TC9 is no longer the economic choice in the compact line array driver class…..the Faital Pro 3FE25 has better off axis dispersion, power handling and efficiency for the dollar. For PA use, 8 drivers can get it done if crossed high enough to avoid low end power compression. Remember the purpose…..keep the array within the listener ear height window…..6ft gets the job done unless your audience are little persons or giants.
Thank you Weltersys. I suspected I was doing it all wrong.
Thanks you Mayhem13 I didn't know about the Faitals.
Thanks Wesayso....does this tight pattern mean my speaker will be unsuitable as a coffee shop PA?
This forum is great!! I really appreciate all the help! I am now going to ask evern more stupid questions...
I am trying to do this on a budget and I am going to need a small Sub however, I have an Electro Voice SX 100+ (and some sx200's) I could pretend is a sub.
I realise I could use the SX instead of all this, but I like the small venue / no feedback effect with the array. And it sounds good!
I have found a pair of nice looking home built passive 8 Ohm 10" subs for cheap that are tuned to 40Hz and have (18dB) crossovers at 120Hz.
They have something like this inside but older. I realise they are foam surround and are old but they are un-used, kept out of sunlight etc. Might be ok?
Ok, so if I put a 200uF (ish) bipolar in series with the array and modify the passive XO in the subs to 160Hz that'll work won't it?
Thinking about the power of the Aiyima A07 max .. and what Weltersys says... I'm going to have to re-wire the array to 8-Ohms and run just one 8 Ohm Sub in parallel (in bridge mode) or I won't have enough power. That'll be a cuter looking setup anyway. Or use the SX100+ as a sub?
If i'm buying a bi-polar cap, I'll get a pair of decent 63V for the amp since people are wary of the 50V.
The music would be Acoustic guitar, singing and thumped out drum beats into looper. This does need to be a bit bassy to not sound dull. I probably only need 70-80Hz bottom from the subs anyway don't I? Perhaps I could put a massive cap in series?
So.. Does a 10" real sub driver work better that a 12" full range used as a sub?
Any advice gratefully recieved.
I haven't bought the (sub) speakers yet but here's some pics:
Thanks you Mayhem13 I didn't know about the Faitals.
Thanks Wesayso....does this tight pattern mean my speaker will be unsuitable as a coffee shop PA?
This forum is great!! I really appreciate all the help! I am now going to ask evern more stupid questions...
I am trying to do this on a budget and I am going to need a small Sub however, I have an Electro Voice SX 100+ (and some sx200's) I could pretend is a sub.
I realise I could use the SX instead of all this, but I like the small venue / no feedback effect with the array. And it sounds good!
I have found a pair of nice looking home built passive 8 Ohm 10" subs for cheap that are tuned to 40Hz and have (18dB) crossovers at 120Hz.
They have something like this inside but older. I realise they are foam surround and are old but they are un-used, kept out of sunlight etc. Might be ok?
Ok, so if I put a 200uF (ish) bipolar in series with the array and modify the passive XO in the subs to 160Hz that'll work won't it?
Thinking about the power of the Aiyima A07 max .. and what Weltersys says... I'm going to have to re-wire the array to 8-Ohms and run just one 8 Ohm Sub in parallel (in bridge mode) or I won't have enough power. That'll be a cuter looking setup anyway. Or use the SX100+ as a sub?
If i'm buying a bi-polar cap, I'll get a pair of decent 63V for the amp since people are wary of the 50V.
The music would be Acoustic guitar, singing and thumped out drum beats into looper. This does need to be a bit bassy to not sound dull. I probably only need 70-80Hz bottom from the subs anyway don't I? Perhaps I could put a massive cap in series?
So.. Does a 10" real sub driver work better that a 12" full range used as a sub?
Any advice gratefully recieved.
I haven't bought the (sub) speakers yet but here's some pics:
You be the judge about that, just try it with your current prototype, listen at different height levels and see if you can live with it.
The subs stacked underneath could help bring the audience into the vertical beam.
See some measured results here for a 9 driver array: https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...l-range-line-array.353658/page-7#post-7088894
With a 9 driver array, wiring gets a little easier with 3 groups of 3 drivers in series.
(series parallel, making the end impedance resemble that of a single driver)
In that same thread, starting about here: https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...l-range-line-array.353658/page-4#post-7038441 there are some simulations posted with a few different filters to get a wider vertical beam-width. Maybe there's something of use to you there. Though I doubt it would beat the Electro Voice SX 100 in raw SPL output. I have to agree, within the beam it can sound very nice. Just get your audience within that beam
. I run a 25 driver array myself for home entertainment. With filters these days.
The built in crossover of these subs isn’t…..its just a low pass filter for the sub driver…..you‘ll need high pass protection for the array of you want any useful power handling…..i wouldn’t want anything lower than 200hz for your intended use.
If you can swing 9 drivers as Wesayso suggests, go for it……that’s roughly a 1 meter vertical beam……more than enough for flat plane club use…….seated ear height is 40 inches and standing height is 62……..you’re covered.
I've just set it up in a larger room. MY GOD THE HF IS SO NARROW!! DOH! I will definitely have a look at those links for ideas thanks!.
Seems it's got more sensitivity than 83dB (see post #2 above). Yes I do plan to Hi pass the array part thanks. I think it might be better to add another (bridge mode) Aiyima A07 max for whatever sub i end up with.
Also seems I need an active XO. What do you good people think of this Linkwitz 2nd order board.? Would 2nd order be ok?
Cost and convenience of setup is an issue so I was trying to avoid getting a big (2nd hand) clever Behringer XO. They do various frequencies for that board. I've got my drivers in 4 parallel pairs and those then in series parallel for 4 ohm total. Having said that, I don't know what I'm going to have to do to widen the horizontal from 6" to preferably 2 feet.
I think I'm going to need a measurement mic. I've got a modded panasonic WM61A one somewhere. I can't afford a proper one really.
I was trying to avoid the cost of a Bose system which would be £800 second hand. I think this could work with some help. Thanks people!
Seems it's got more sensitivity than 83dB (see post #2 above). Yes I do plan to Hi pass the array part thanks. I think it might be better to add another (bridge mode) Aiyima A07 max for whatever sub i end up with.
Also seems I need an active XO. What do you good people think of this Linkwitz 2nd order board.? Would 2nd order be ok?
Cost and convenience of setup is an issue so I was trying to avoid getting a big (2nd hand) clever Behringer XO. They do various frequencies for that board. I've got my drivers in 4 parallel pairs and those then in series parallel for 4 ohm total. Having said that, I don't know what I'm going to have to do to widen the horizontal from 6" to preferably 2 feet.
I think I'm going to need a measurement mic. I've got a modded panasonic WM61A one somewhere. I can't afford a proper one really.
I was trying to avoid the cost of a Bose system which would be £800 second hand. I think this could work with some help. Thanks people!
What set up of those 9 drivers would give me the 1 meter beam? I'll do whatever that is...?
If you use the 4ohm version of the 3fe25 in 3 series groups of 3 wired in parallel, you get a nominal 4ohm load
The vertical array of 9 drivers with minimal spacing will be 30” and the vertical response is good out to about 10 degrees…..with an audience 6ft away thats more than enough coverage
Comb filtering rolloff will begin around 4500hz with a 3” center to center driver spacing.The 3FE has a rising response starting at 5000hz and is up on axis 10db at 12khz so it will offset the arrayed combing effect. Should have a near perfect tilted response to 10khz out to about 30 degrees off axis. You GOTTA high pass this though for any kind of power handling
The vertical array of 9 drivers with minimal spacing will be 30” and the vertical response is good out to about 10 degrees…..with an audience 6ft away thats more than enough coverage
Comb filtering rolloff will begin around 4500hz with a 3” center to center driver spacing.The 3FE has a rising response starting at 5000hz and is up on axis 10db at 12khz so it will offset the arrayed combing effect. Should have a near perfect tilted response to 10khz out to about 30 degrees off axis. You GOTTA high pass this though for any kind of power handling
Thanks for that. I will Hi pass either one I end up with.
Ok, so being new to this... you're saying that the other driver has a Frequency response and the better off axis response(?) and will have less comb effect and have a better horizontal pattern WITHOUT any shading having to be done?
I wish I'd understood all that research I did a bit better..... Oh dear...
Is there any way I can frequency or power shade my way through what I've got? I had a look at the link Wesayso kindly sent and struggled with it. It seems I'd have to use the 'heavy lift' solution which just won't work at hi power. (see pic below). The others seemed to be not relevant due to many more drivers required.
I guess this is why the RCF evox 8 works... they probably chose the right driver and left it un-shaded. DOH!
Anyway... Any ideas to save my array with the existing drivers in them would be gratefully received.
I could try to curve the baffle a bit? add XO's to cause time delay like here.?
Ok, so being new to this... you're saying that the other driver has a Frequency response and the better off axis response(?) and will have less comb effect and have a better horizontal pattern WITHOUT any shading having to be done?
I wish I'd understood all that research I did a bit better..... Oh dear...
Is there any way I can frequency or power shade my way through what I've got? I had a look at the link Wesayso kindly sent and struggled with it. It seems I'd have to use the 'heavy lift' solution which just won't work at hi power. (see pic below). The others seemed to be not relevant due to many more drivers required.
I guess this is why the RCF evox 8 works... they probably chose the right driver and left it un-shaded. DOH!
Anyway... Any ideas to save my array with the existing drivers in them would be gratefully received.
I could try to curve the baffle a bit? add XO's to cause time delay like here.?
4 ohm impedance isn’t low for live sound reinforcement….pretty standard practice for efficiency.
The smaller the driver, the closer the center to center spacing can be and the farther up in FR where combing begins. Also the smaller the driver, the better the off axis response. The TC9 was the cheap grail driver of choice…..born from the TG9 used by a Roger Russell in his original design, it HAD everything going for it…….used to cost less than $10. The Faital is essentially now the same price, smaller, more efficient, etc. No need to shade a 9 driver array…….4 bands of parametric EQ will get the job done.
The smaller the driver, the closer the center to center spacing can be and the farther up in FR where combing begins. Also the smaller the driver, the better the off axis response. The TC9 was the cheap grail driver of choice…..born from the TG9 used by a Roger Russell in his original design, it HAD everything going for it…….used to cost less than $10. The Faital is essentially now the same price, smaller, more efficient, etc. No need to shade a 9 driver array…….4 bands of parametric EQ will get the job done.
