I could be wrong but I don't think he was suggesting that you replace the woofer. But to run a sim you need to put in a driver with known specs, so that's what he used for the purpose of running the sim as your B40 driver is an unknown specimen.
I would actually strongly suggest that you DON'T change the woofer. If you want to do something different then sell the B40 as is and make something new. The B40 probably only has value in it's original state.
I would actually strongly suggest that you DON'T change the woofer. If you want to do something different then sell the B40 as is and make something new. The B40 probably only has value in it's original state.
You shouldn't do anything until you assess what you have. At this point in time, you are just flying blind. What's your impediment to making a few REW runs or sampling a few seconds of the lowest pedal using RTA?
Ben
Ben
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Hi Bach On,
Post #839 was just a quick try to show the approximate behavior of the Allen B40, e.g.: the port velocity will be similar @ given output SPLs/frequencies for different drivers, and it shows that the port diameter is too small.
Don't change drivers, but if you need a replacement for the original the ST385 might fit the bill.
Now, back to measuring. 🙂
Regards,
Post #839 was just a quick try to show the approximate behavior of the Allen B40, e.g.: the port velocity will be similar @ given output SPLs/frequencies for different drivers, and it shows that the port diameter is too small.
Don't change drivers, but if you need a replacement for the original the ST385 might fit the bill.
Now, back to measuring. 🙂
Regards,
I'm assuming it's a distance issue. The audience position is probably quite a distance away from the subs. So it's going to require either REALLY long cables or more than one laptop (one to generate the signal and one to record and measure the mic input).
If the amps and subs are in the same room then there's no excuse to not measure response in the sub room asap, and in fact those measurements are long overdue. Unfortunately measurement in the sub room location won't give much (if any) insight about the more important location, the audience position and unless done in the extreme nearfield (both port and driver close mic'ed) it won't really give any insight to the sub's actual response either.
Measuring the 16 hz organ note from the audience position would be fairly easy, it wouldn't require more than one laptop and no extra long cables either. But that's only one piece of the puzzle that means little on it's own as we still don't know what the wav sample signal is supposed to look like.
BTW, Back On, we asked awhile ago if you could upload the organ samples directly so we could analyze them, don't think you even replied to that request. Post 822 and 824. I think you are going to find that we really can't offer a whole lot more help without seeing some kind of measurements. The wav samples themselves, measurements of the signal chain, close mic measurements of the port and driver, measurements in the sub room, measurements in the audience location. Take your pick, show us ANYTHING that we can work with.
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I tried to upload one of the Artisan sample files to the forum, but had no success.
I've had illness in my family that has taken up some of my time. I do plan to get all the suggested measurements done. I'm sorry it has taken so long to get all done and uploaded.
Bach On
I've had illness in my family that has taken up some of my time. I do plan to get all the suggested measurements done. I'm sorry it has taken so long to get all done and uploaded.
Bach On
Probably have to change the file extension to something the forum will accept as an upload, then it can be changed back by the downloader. Or host it somewhere else.
If you are having trouble I can do either or both if you email the samples to me. No rush, take care of life stuff and family first.
Another measuring approach could be taken other than just attempting to measure 16 hz tones. You have to be sure your mic and preamp will actually measure that low.
With an organ, we may not hear the 16hz tone but instead hear it modulate other tones.
An approach would be to play some of the lower pipes with and without the lowest tones from the subwoofer.
With an organ, we may not hear the 16hz tone but instead hear it modulate other tones.
An approach would be to play some of the lower pipes with and without the lowest tones from the subwoofer.
You do not seem well acquainted with the theories of Fourier.
Actually, you have synthesized sound backwards. We "sense" lower tones from the partials (and hence, even organists can have the mistaken illusion they ARE hearing 16 Hz) but the lower tone just isn't there in the room. Yes, when the fundamental is present it changes the sound, of course.
A better approach is to play the sub without the pipes to see what's coming out but your suggestion also has merit.
Ben
After my nice chat with the Artisan tech documents earlier, I have no doubt the Artisan signal is a clean unedited version of sound inside the organ enclosures where they recorded. (That is, of course, never the way a recording engineer would work, but here we are....). Yes, we could eyeball that file to see what low frequency content is present but that isn't too important.
More important is to examine the path from the Artisan output to the speaker terminals and then into the hall. Whatever the given source signal you are using, you'd really just like to know how well you are reproducing it.
And that's what we'd like know too.
Ben
A recording engineer would squash the life out of it to get it all ready for the loudness wars. And maybe add some effects. All the stuff that people regularly complain about with modern recordings. But not necessarily and not even likely would an engineer high pass it to get rid of the low bass like a couple hundred of your previous posts suggested.
I have to disagree very strongly on this one. OP has already made at least a couple of attempts at measuring points in the signal chain and the measurements appear to be just noise. It would be VERY useful to see what the original sample looks like. At that point we would have something to compare and OP would know very well what to look for when measuring points along the signal chain and mic'ed frequency response.
At this point we have NO point of reference at all. The samples (even a single wav sample) would provide our first point of reference to date and it's the easiest thing to upload. No measurement required, just upload the wav file or email it to someone (like me) and I can distribute it.
The sample file I tried to upload is 10.5 Mb. I don't know if the board has a size limit that precludes uploading a file that low. The Artisan files have an extension of .arnk (short for Artisan Rank). I tried changing it to .txt. But it still would not upload.
I am trying to take all the measurements suggested, but the family health issue has kept me from completing the process. Too, we've had workmen in the building changing out the air conditioning system.
BO
I'll be glad to e-mail it to someone.
I am trying to take all the measurements suggested, but the family health issue has kept me from completing the process. Too, we've had workmen in the building changing out the air conditioning system.
BO
I'll be glad to e-mail it to someone.
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It's good that you told me you sent it, it went straight to my junk mail.
The forum won't take it even with the extension changed to txt, it says a security token is missing or something.
So I put it on an existing webpage that I have, it's at the bottom of this page - https://sites.google.com/site/amate...coil-simulation-accuracy-issue-and-adjustment
The file name is 32Bombarde44.arnk.
So get it while it's hot, I can't leave it there forever.
I don't have time to play with it now I have to go to work. But the first thing I'm going to do is change the file extension to .wav and see if Audacity can do anything with it. I suspect not, but we'll see.
The forum won't take it even with the extension changed to txt, it says a security token is missing or something.
So I put it on an existing webpage that I have, it's at the bottom of this page - https://sites.google.com/site/amate...coil-simulation-accuracy-issue-and-adjustment
The file name is 32Bombarde44.arnk.
So get it while it's hot, I can't leave it there forever.
I don't have time to play with it now I have to go to work. But the first thing I'm going to do is change the file extension to .wav and see if Audacity can do anything with it. I suspect not, but we'll see.
Used Audacity: File > Import > Raw Data
Sounds like pink noise. Spectrum suggests some deviations from pink noise, but not much. Peaks at 4, 11, 20Hz, roughly equal in level.
Chris
Sounds like pink noise. Spectrum suggests some deviations from pink noise, but not much. Peaks at 4, 11, 20Hz, roughly equal in level.
Chris
Thanks for moving forward on this.
What's the file supposed to represent? Could it contain all keypresses in the keyboard for a given rank or stop? If so, no doubt it would be random all together with the low notes the furnace fan in the cellar (240 and 660 rpm or related tones).
I suppose you don't need more than a brief sound-bite - even a single second - to represent a keypress. Couple of seconds maybe.
At 16/44 "Redbook", a single second might take .25MB, if my brain is doing the math right.
Dunno. But I do know a unique formatted file can be anything you want.
Ben
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@ just a guy
Thanx for the ARNK upload 😉
Like chris661 i also played around in Audacity with it. Seems as if it "might" be a custom sound file extension by Artisan ? Anyway it's wierd !
Imported into Audacity it appears as in my Bursts image. I can definately hear Rising heavily distorted tones where the main bursts are, but they are NOT low frequency over my speakers. They sound like harmonics. Playing all the way through on top of the above, is a much louder noise, which sounds like noise as chris661 mentions, maybe pink/white ?
The file name = 32Bombarde44.arnk which i presumed = 32 Bit @ 44100Hz ? I imported it as such.
In my spectrum plot image, i can also see the VLF ! & LF peaks.
I have a feeling that, due to us not having the correct decoding, the sample is messed up ! Anyway as is, unless someone else can run it etc correctly, it's not much use !
Thanx for the ARNK upload 😉
Like chris661 i also played around in Audacity with it. Seems as if it "might" be a custom sound file extension by Artisan ? Anyway it's wierd !
Imported into Audacity it appears as in my Bursts image. I can definately hear Rising heavily distorted tones where the main bursts are, but they are NOT low frequency over my speakers. They sound like harmonics. Playing all the way through on top of the above, is a much louder noise, which sounds like noise as chris661 mentions, maybe pink/white ?
The file name = 32Bombarde44.arnk which i presumed = 32 Bit @ 44100Hz ? I imported it as such.
In my spectrum plot image, i can also see the VLF ! & LF peaks.
I have a feeling that, due to us not having the correct decoding, the sample is messed up ! Anyway as is, unless someone else can run it etc correctly, it's not much use !
Attachments
Yeah, I don't think we'll be able to do anything with it unless we can convert it to .wav format. It's just going to look like noise if it's not decoded into something Audacity can recognize.
I did a quick search for .arnk file type and got only one hit going to the Artisan site. I looked for .arnk converter and got nothing at all.
I don't know what to do with it. I'll try a few things later but I don't have much hope. I'm just on a short break now, have to go back to work and it will be several hours before I get a chance to play with it.
I did a quick search for .arnk file type and got only one hit going to the Artisan site. I looked for .arnk converter and got nothing at all.
I don't know what to do with it. I'll try a few things later but I don't have much hope. I'm just on a short break now, have to go back to work and it will be several hours before I get a chance to play with it.
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