Does anyone know what the construction is inside a tantalum resistor?
I have tried Tantalum in the past in a complete driver section with not so good results, however I wanted to try a complete change.
I have just done a few mods to my SE amp changing the Takman metal film. First just the cathode and grid stoppers. Then Kiwame in the anode of the driver. The impact was very good so they are now all Tantalum.
In most amps selected types (mix) works quite well..(better)
Regards
M. Gregg
I have tried Tantalum in the past in a complete driver section with not so good results, however I wanted to try a complete change.
I have just done a few mods to my SE amp changing the Takman metal film. First just the cathode and grid stoppers. Then Kiwame in the anode of the driver. The impact was very good so they are now all Tantalum.
In most amps selected types (mix) works quite well..(better)
Regards
M. Gregg
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Hi,
I can only guess that they're made like an ordinary metalfilm resistor with non-magnetic (copper?) leads and endcaps.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/parts/182611-tantalum-resistors-whats-so-different.html
Personally I'm no big fan as most of these resistors (including carbonfilm) are not what I consider to be neutral sounding. YMMV.
Ciao, 😉
I can only guess that they're made like an ordinary metalfilm resistor with non-magnetic (copper?) leads and endcaps.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/parts/182611-tantalum-resistors-whats-so-different.html
Personally I'm no big fan as most of these resistors (including carbonfilm) are not what I consider to be neutral sounding. YMMV.
Ciao, 😉
Hi Frank,
Yes I read that thread, I have used Tant resistors in the cathode of the first tube in amps in the past.
Input caps are mundorf Silver/oil. I wanted to hear what the outcome would be.
Audio note are looking at silver end caps and wire for a new range of tantalum resistors.
Quote
The ultimate development is the all silver resistor (no it is not made from solid silver, but is essentially the same as the non-magnetic tantalum resistor, where instead of a copper end cap with copper lead out wires, we use a silver end cap with 1.2 mm pure solid silver lead out wires.
I have no connection just for information.
link:
Audio Note
Regards
M. Gregg
Yes I read that thread, I have used Tant resistors in the cathode of the first tube in amps in the past.
Input caps are mundorf Silver/oil. I wanted to hear what the outcome would be.
Audio note are looking at silver end caps and wire for a new range of tantalum resistors.
Quote
The ultimate development is the all silver resistor (no it is not made from solid silver, but is essentially the same as the non-magnetic tantalum resistor, where instead of a copper end cap with copper lead out wires, we use a silver end cap with 1.2 mm pure solid silver lead out wires.
I have no connection just for information.
link:
Audio Note
Regards
M. Gregg
What is the recommended snake oil change interval on those resistors? 3000 hours? Or can I extend it to 10000 hours (classical music) / 5000 hours (heavy metal) if I use synthetic snake oil? 
~Tom
~Tom
Tantalum (tantalum nitride, to be precise) resistors were developed for electronics exposed to high level of moisture. In the meantime they have been picked up by some audiophile snake oil theory adepts as holy grail of audio.
If you are keen to use top quality resistors by all means, incl. stability and noise, look at Vishay bulk metal foil hermetically sealed ones. Price is over $20 per pc.
If you are keen to use top quality resistors by all means, incl. stability and noise, look at Vishay bulk metal foil hermetically sealed ones. Price is over $20 per pc.
I expected the comments..😀
I have used Vishay (Bulk Foil) resistors in the past and most other kinds as well..😀 and Sfernice pots etc.
This amp has a TKD pot... 🙂 (Ko-on)..
Its just a trial..
Regards
M. Gregg
I have used Vishay (Bulk Foil) resistors in the past and most other kinds as well..😀 and Sfernice pots etc.
This amp has a TKD pot... 🙂 (Ko-on)..
Its just a trial..
Regards
M. Gregg
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Just for interest,
When I changed the resistors from:
Takman for everything.
Put the Shinkoh in first thought it sounds the same...then it sounds not very good..so I left them in keeping the old parts..then I guess my ears got used to the sound...but then others of the family that don't normally venture in to listen came in and sat down...😕strange..
So I changed the others and it didn't sound as good so I left them in and got used to the sound again..still keeping the old parts.
How many resistors are in a SE amp? in my case about 12..I have done this before many years ago and didn't like the sound so whats different?
Its just interesting..but maybe only this time...😉
Regards
M. Gregg
When I changed the resistors from:
Takman for everything.
Put the Shinkoh in first thought it sounds the same...then it sounds not very good..so I left them in keeping the old parts..then I guess my ears got used to the sound...but then others of the family that don't normally venture in to listen came in and sat down...😕strange..
So I changed the others and it didn't sound as good so I left them in and got used to the sound again..still keeping the old parts.
How many resistors are in a SE amp? in my case about 12..I have done this before many years ago and didn't like the sound so whats different?
Its just interesting..but maybe only this time...😉
Regards
M. Gregg
Just thought of the whats different..
The last time it was a PP amp with global FB.
Regards
M. Gregg
The last time it was a PP amp with global FB.
Regards
M. Gregg
It's all about Hearing and recollections of sound, hard to shape with the soldering iron. Just get the most offending things out and be happy, it will never be perfect or even natural without extreme measures like soundshaping your listening room. Every other day you get one thing soundwise right and the next you disagree. If it may comfort you, there's no truth in measurement alone, the game is all about making compromises. Have you ever experienced a line array of broadband speakers? That was the most realistic reproduction I ever heard but it's certainly not hifi.
Hi,
Don't let anyone stop you.
I tried tantalum resistors many, many years ago when you could only buy them from La Maison de L'audiophile in Paris who imported them straight from Japan.
They were O.K. but I concur with Analog SA's description in the thread I linked to above.
If you want to develop a good feel what resistors or caps sound like then putting them in a high gain circuit such as a phono pre is the easiest way.
If you want a more neutral resistor (and it won't come close to a Charcroft, that's for sure) then I'd recommend the old Holco and Caddock resistors.
Be ware of voltage and wattage restrictions however.
In general though I don't think one should pick components to camouflage a problem elsewhere but that's just me.😀
Anyway, let us know what you think of them.
Ciao, 😉
Don't let anyone stop you.
I tried tantalum resistors many, many years ago when you could only buy them from La Maison de L'audiophile in Paris who imported them straight from Japan.
They were O.K. but I concur with Analog SA's description in the thread I linked to above.
If you want to develop a good feel what resistors or caps sound like then putting them in a high gain circuit such as a phono pre is the easiest way.
If you want a more neutral resistor (and it won't come close to a Charcroft, that's for sure) then I'd recommend the old Holco and Caddock resistors.
Be ware of voltage and wattage restrictions however.
In general though I don't think one should pick components to camouflage a problem elsewhere but that's just me.😀
Anyway, let us know what you think of them.
Ciao, 😉
In the signal path, I use Texas Components TX2575 only, if the 0.6W rating is sufficient. They'll make any value you need up to 100k, minimum order of one. They sound like nothing at all, which is to me perfect for a resistor.
For higher powers it's usually Mills wirewounds.
For higher powers it's usually Mills wirewounds.
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OK,
This is the outcome so far...😀
No measurements because this is just Audiophile nonsense.
Put it in and listen...😱..yes just listen to it because its what I want to do!
The system sounded quite good with just tantalums in the grid stopper positions and cathode of first tube also G1 ground resistors of the driver and power tubes and a kiwame in the anode of the driver tube.
So I fitted all tantalum..the main impact (detriment) seemed to come from the anode position of the driver tube.
(A hard edge on the treble). Only my thoughts but the anode is not the place to put just a couple, better in the cathode or grid stopper positions.
The tantalums came out...and I went back to Takman MF.
Because it seemed like using all tantalum was a bad idea..
This was the original set up but..the Tantalums went back in..😀
Because they seemed to have more depth.
Then I tried the mix of Kiwame in the anode of the driver and Tantalum everywhere else because there seemed to be a hard edge on the treble.
(Mundorf SO)
But the Kiwame came out and Tantalum went back in...
OK so the balance seemed out because The cathode bypass worked better with Cerafine replacing the Sillmic 2.
The bass became dynamic and at least double what I seemed to have before. Yes its all meaning less..
At this point the sound was very detailed and position was good ...But,,,😀
Following on from this the Mundorf SO has been replaced with Audyn True copper...the Resistors are all Tantalum except the discharge across the B+ which is Kiwame 5W.
😀😀..The saga continues..LMAO I have to catch that snake..🙄
Where to from here..just listen because its pretty good at the moment..
Z foil input resistor maybe..
Perhaps play with FB..er no... 😀
Just on reflection..the Audyn True copper caps lead outs..what a PITA if you have to cut them...LOL un-wind them and strip each one then reheat and solder to ensure a contact..Is it worth it, I think so.
Regards
M. Gregg
This is the outcome so far...😀
No measurements because this is just Audiophile nonsense.
Put it in and listen...😱..yes just listen to it because its what I want to do!
The system sounded quite good with just tantalums in the grid stopper positions and cathode of first tube also G1 ground resistors of the driver and power tubes and a kiwame in the anode of the driver tube.
So I fitted all tantalum..the main impact (detriment) seemed to come from the anode position of the driver tube.
(A hard edge on the treble). Only my thoughts but the anode is not the place to put just a couple, better in the cathode or grid stopper positions.
The tantalums came out...and I went back to Takman MF.
Because it seemed like using all tantalum was a bad idea..
This was the original set up but..the Tantalums went back in..😀
Because they seemed to have more depth.
Then I tried the mix of Kiwame in the anode of the driver and Tantalum everywhere else because there seemed to be a hard edge on the treble.
(Mundorf SO)
But the Kiwame came out and Tantalum went back in...
OK so the balance seemed out because The cathode bypass worked better with Cerafine replacing the Sillmic 2.
The bass became dynamic and at least double what I seemed to have before. Yes its all meaning less..
At this point the sound was very detailed and position was good ...But,,,😀
Following on from this the Mundorf SO has been replaced with Audyn True copper...the Resistors are all Tantalum except the discharge across the B+ which is Kiwame 5W.
😀😀..The saga continues..LMAO I have to catch that snake..🙄
Where to from here..just listen because its pretty good at the moment..
Z foil input resistor maybe..
Perhaps play with FB..er no... 😀
Just on reflection..the Audyn True copper caps lead outs..what a PITA if you have to cut them...LOL un-wind them and strip each one then reheat and solder to ensure a contact..Is it worth it, I think so.
Regards
M. Gregg
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Its off topic however,
I thought I would mention the difference between the Mundorf Silver oil and the Audyn True copper cap.
Is there a difference ITS HUGE..
The Mundorf Silver oil is not warm it has detail and space around the stage, however there are times when its to cold. Perhaps a bit thin in the mid range.
I was surprised by the Audyn true copper cap. Compared to the Mundorf the Audyn is very warm (polypropylene). However it has loads of detail within the warmth so it sounds completely different to the mundorf. Small details stand out and you can hear fine detail quite well.
PS the Tantalum resistors are still in.
Regards
M. Gregg
I thought I would mention the difference between the Mundorf Silver oil and the Audyn True copper cap.
Is there a difference ITS HUGE..
The Mundorf Silver oil is not warm it has detail and space around the stage, however there are times when its to cold. Perhaps a bit thin in the mid range.
I was surprised by the Audyn true copper cap. Compared to the Mundorf the Audyn is very warm (polypropylene). However it has loads of detail within the warmth so it sounds completely different to the mundorf. Small details stand out and you can hear fine detail quite well.
PS the Tantalum resistors are still in.
Regards
M. Gregg
synergy
After many hours listening,
I don't like Tantalum in the anode position of the first tube.
So Takman MF is now in this position.
Also the grid grounding resistor of the first tube is also Takman MF.
Tantalum are in the cathode position and grid stopper of the first tube.
Tantalum in the grid grounding resistor and grid stopper of the power tube.
Power tube cathode bypassed with Cerafine. YMMV..😀
Audyn true copper coupling from first tube to power tube.
I found the tantalum add depth to the sound, however its over kill if used in all positions.
The anode was the worst position.
It seemed to reduce the slam of the amp and impact of the sound.
Regards
M. Gregg
After many hours listening,
I don't like Tantalum in the anode position of the first tube.
So Takman MF is now in this position.
Also the grid grounding resistor of the first tube is also Takman MF.
Tantalum are in the cathode position and grid stopper of the first tube.
Tantalum in the grid grounding resistor and grid stopper of the power tube.
Power tube cathode bypassed with Cerafine. YMMV..😀
Audyn true copper coupling from first tube to power tube.
I found the tantalum add depth to the sound, however its over kill if used in all positions.
The anode was the worst position.
It seemed to reduce the slam of the amp and impact of the sound.
Regards
M. Gregg
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Folks,
With all respect - are we serious with all this?
When the subject is audio, with the vastly researched data on hearing psychology and acousto-medical phenomenon on what is generally audible as well as what not, what reason does still exist to accord acoustical properties to components such as those mentioned? It is one matter for any individual to prefer whichever component because of a perception that it adds niceness to his/her equipment, but it gets a little thick when that subjective experience gains the status of being normative in the face of all proof to the opposite.
To repeat, I am playing the ball, not the person - but it is the ball here that is allocated mystery abilities with no data/proof whatsoever of reality. While hearing is subject to characteristics outlined in the above studies, electronic components are subjects of science, quantifiable by present-day equipment and techniques to exactitude far in excess of what human hearing can discern.
I will be the first person to adopt this component or that if any proof can be furnished of its superiority to the next. Thus far I seem to find only reams of anecdotal perceptions.
Yes, this is an old subject, but kept alive simply because of continued rejection of facts. Not to open another discussion on the subject itself - all has been said - but it seems the OP has answered his question by exemplary repeated tests. Even if simply confirming what has already been established umpteen times before, he at least have the satisfaction of having done that himself. That I do not begrudge him; it was his time. But it seems that this mysticism of the sound of components will not end in my days. What does it take to first acknowledge accepted science before proceeding from that? That is the way all development on this planet has taken place thus far. To recall a sentence from F de Grove (I think): Don't use a seemingly illustrious component to camoflage a problem elsewhere. (It will always succeed in doing so.)
With all respect - are we serious with all this?
When the subject is audio, with the vastly researched data on hearing psychology and acousto-medical phenomenon on what is generally audible as well as what not, what reason does still exist to accord acoustical properties to components such as those mentioned? It is one matter for any individual to prefer whichever component because of a perception that it adds niceness to his/her equipment, but it gets a little thick when that subjective experience gains the status of being normative in the face of all proof to the opposite.
To repeat, I am playing the ball, not the person - but it is the ball here that is allocated mystery abilities with no data/proof whatsoever of reality. While hearing is subject to characteristics outlined in the above studies, electronic components are subjects of science, quantifiable by present-day equipment and techniques to exactitude far in excess of what human hearing can discern.
I will be the first person to adopt this component or that if any proof can be furnished of its superiority to the next. Thus far I seem to find only reams of anecdotal perceptions.
Yes, this is an old subject, but kept alive simply because of continued rejection of facts. Not to open another discussion on the subject itself - all has been said - but it seems the OP has answered his question by exemplary repeated tests. Even if simply confirming what has already been established umpteen times before, he at least have the satisfaction of having done that himself. That I do not begrudge him; it was his time. But it seems that this mysticism of the sound of components will not end in my days. What does it take to first acknowledge accepted science before proceeding from that? That is the way all development on this planet has taken place thus far. To recall a sentence from F de Grove (I think): Don't use a seemingly illustrious component to camoflage a problem elsewhere. (It will always succeed in doing so.)
I find that using "audiophile" components increases the background noise in my gear.
I pulled out a scope to work out what the noise was.
Took me a while.
Then I realised it was a combination of; (a) about 5dB of my money being sucked down the drain, and (b) about 17dB of my wife complaining about our money being sucked down the drain.
It was just noisy enough to ruin my auditory experience.....
I pulled out a scope to work out what the noise was.
Took me a while.
Then I realised it was a combination of; (a) about 5dB of my money being sucked down the drain, and (b) about 17dB of my wife complaining about our money being sucked down the drain.
It was just noisy enough to ruin my auditory experience.....
So darn it!
In all my 60 years experience Lord Earl is the first one giving 'scientific' evidence regarding the results of using boutique components. I believe that can be called proof (of something)!
Excellent (seriously)!
(OT, but in the line of good replies: Asked once of someone why he purchased overpriced boutique equipment: the reply was: Because I can. Another reply no one can have any dispute with.)
In all my 60 years experience Lord Earl is the first one giving 'scientific' evidence regarding the results of using boutique components. I believe that can be called proof (of something)!
Excellent (seriously)!
(OT, but in the line of good replies: Asked once of someone why he purchased overpriced boutique equipment: the reply was: Because I can. Another reply no one can have any dispute with.)
Interesting. I love them in the anodes but obviously without the context of our specific systems/preferences this is of little value. However my view on the SIO is identical with yours.
How wide is the range of source material you use for appraisal?
Music from,
Seal, Yes, Travis, Supertramp, Tomita, Police, Richard Stoltzman, Beatles,
Pink Floyd, Zepplin, Joe Bonamassa, Jethro Tull, Little Richard, Labi Siffre, Tchaikovsky, LTJ Bukmen, Men at work, Nat King Cole, Mike Oldfield, Queen, PFM, Poco, some more classical from test disc's etc..
Regards
M. Gregg
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