Hi,
This is my first topic on this forum. (i'am from The Netherlands)
I have a set of Jamo S606 speakers and a Yamaha AX-497 Amplier and i want to build a Table tuba so i have some nice bass when I watch movies.
But sadly all of the recommended drivers for the Table Tuba aren't available in The Netherlands.
I found that the following drivers is available in a shop nearby: Dayton Audio SD215A-88 8" DVC Subwoofer
Will this driver do the job?
Another question: The normal dimensions of the table tuba are 30x30x16 inch. I want to make mine 30x30x15 inches. So a little less height. I'am sure this will have impact on the sound quality, But the question is how much? Will it still preform good or will it sound like crap?
Thanks in advance!
This is my first topic on this forum. (i'am from The Netherlands)
I have a set of Jamo S606 speakers and a Yamaha AX-497 Amplier and i want to build a Table tuba so i have some nice bass when I watch movies.
But sadly all of the recommended drivers for the Table Tuba aren't available in The Netherlands.
I found that the following drivers is available in a shop nearby: Dayton Audio SD215A-88 8" DVC Subwoofer
Will this driver do the job?
Another question: The normal dimensions of the table tuba are 30x30x16 inch. I want to make mine 30x30x15 inches. So a little less height. I'am sure this will have impact on the sound quality, But the question is how much? Will it still preform good or will it sound like crap?
Thanks in advance!
don't think an inch lopped off would hurt much
here's a sim with your Dayton and standard mouth width - looks strong
at ~92dB half space @30Hz with 2vrms
here's a sim with your Dayton and standard mouth width - looks strong
at ~92dB half space @30Hz with 2vrms
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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Are there any copies of plans for the table tuba kicking around? I'm certainly willing to pay for my own if I choose to build it, but I want to peek at the insides and get that list of preferred drivers that are secretly in there as well. I'm wanting a table type design for sure, as well as a horn so this concept certainly meets criteria at this point...
Haven't got the plans, but this is the guidelines Bill gives for drivers.
The effect of reducing the horn width might be barely measurable but almost certainly inaudible.
That driver would probably work well. No idea how good the TT is as a design though. Hard to get a good objective review because most of the people who buy BFM plans are drinking the kool aid.
The effect of reducing the horn width might be barely measurable but almost certainly inaudible.
If I were looking to buy plans being peddled on the Internet, I would search out the honesty and ethics background of the peddler before rewarding him/her any of my hard earned cash. Look him up first, then decide.
Honesty and integrity don't always equate to the best product. But if those are high on your list there is this.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/everything-else/5121-sin-bin-9.html#post592174
There's also the fact that he frequently tries to discourage diy horn design by various methods including claiming ridiculous things like "there's no point to a horn design if it doesn't show 6 db advantage over the same driver with same tuning in a ported box" when even his own designs don't even come close to living up to that standard. He's also been known to "help" beginners design horns by giving them tips that will almost guarantee they will never get a good result and therefore likely quit.
There are also plenty of free plans available that will do just as well as the one in question here, so there are choices.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/everything-else/5121-sin-bin-9.html#post592174
There's also the fact that he frequently tries to discourage diy horn design by various methods including claiming ridiculous things like "there's no point to a horn design if it doesn't show 6 db advantage over the same driver with same tuning in a ported box" when even his own designs don't even come close to living up to that standard. He's also been known to "help" beginners design horns by giving them tips that will almost guarantee they will never get a good result and therefore likely quit.
There are also plenty of free plans available that will do just as well as the one in question here, so there are choices.
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Just in case you are not familiar with the term "sockpuppeting" - http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/everything-else/57813-people-can-get-banned-diyaudio-com.html
It's a pretty serious offense, in this case used for unethical marketing purposes, replying to his own posts with multiple identities. I think he might still be doing this on other forums as there are a few different users on various forums that have a relatively low post count and ALL of their posts are directly related to how awesome BFM products are. I'm sure he's smarter about it now if he is still doing it, a VPN can throw a lot of doubt into the real location of the account holder. This is just speculation of course as they could be real people but the past infringements definitely bring up questions.
It's a pretty serious offense, in this case used for unethical marketing purposes, replying to his own posts with multiple identities. I think he might still be doing this on other forums as there are a few different users on various forums that have a relatively low post count and ALL of their posts are directly related to how awesome BFM products are. I'm sure he's smarter about it now if he is still doing it, a VPN can throw a lot of doubt into the real location of the account holder. This is just speculation of course as they could be real people but the past infringements definitely bring up questions.
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the infinty 860W is another option for the table tuba if it isn't available you can compare the TS parameters to the dayton you are looking at. You can also post your questions on bill's website BillFitzmaurice.info - Index page
The table tuba is more time consuming to build than a standard ported box though or any front loaded horns for that matter and you need to use the right plywood such as baltic birch or a type that has at least 7 layers for 1/2" thk. and be void free and all joints must be air tight or all your hard work would be in vain. Not discouraging you just giving a heads up! His plans are well detailed though.
The table tuba is more time consuming to build than a standard ported box though or any front loaded horns for that matter and you need to use the right plywood such as baltic birch or a type that has at least 7 layers for 1/2" thk. and be void free and all joints must be air tight or all your hard work would be in vain. Not discouraging you just giving a heads up! His plans are well detailed though.
I did not have such good results with mine BUT that could be because I used regular construction plywood which was crap but it was all I could find at a reasonable cost at that time.
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I'm going to disagree there. This is not a high power horn. Regular old crap 1/2" should be sufficient if a reasonable amount of bracing is used. In this case, the plans already call for more than enough. Even voids in the plywood aren't a death sentence. Not that high quality wood isn't preferable, just not absolutely necessary.
I will agree that it needs to be airtight with the joints properly glued.
As for Bill, I agree. He's his own shill. His products don't perform significantly better than freely available designs, so he relies on two things: having very detailed construction plans which are extremely thorough and helpful for newbies, and pushing his product very hard.
I wouldn't really care much if it didn't put him so often at odds with DIY culture. He's been known to censor his personal forum quite heavily, deleting posts about free designs or criticisms of his. He is also very averse to talking about horn physics in any more detail than broad generalizations, and doesn't like much more performance data on his cabs than Crayola™ sensitivity plots.
They also use a lot of interesting math over there. This is one I've seen a ton of times- claiming that you start with a subwoofer cab, put it in a corner (+9db), double the number of cabs (+6db), double again (+6db), and add a v coupling plate (+3), you can get 24db of gain with 4 cabinets over the ground plane response of a single one. Very wishful thinking.
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^ you may be right about the old crap plywood being acceptable also I did not use additional bracing in mine. I'm sure I was careful with my joints but maybe I still ended up with a leaky joint!
However I didn't want to give a bad review on the T/T design because I didn't use the recommended plywood, I was giving advice based on what the plans says which specifically recommends B/B, Arauco or other as long as there are at least 5 full thickness of plies (my ply had 2 thick intermediate plies and 3 thin outer and middle plies) besides alot of time goes into making these cabs I'd hate for him to be disappointed with the end results (like me!)
BTW 1/2" MDF can also be used but it would be Heavy
However I didn't want to give a bad review on the T/T design because I didn't use the recommended plywood, I was giving advice based on what the plans says which specifically recommends B/B, Arauco or other as long as there are at least 5 full thickness of plies (my ply had 2 thick intermediate plies and 3 thin outer and middle plies) besides alot of time goes into making these cabs I'd hate for him to be disappointed with the end results (like me!)
BTW 1/2" MDF can also be used but it would be Heavy
I must say I was a bit disappointed to learn some of this about bill. I use to kinda admire him on his work and knowledge about horns
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That's a bucket full of Intel on the Bill thing... Not diggin that style of business person... I'm just looking for a sub, I can hide in an ottoman/coffee table.. I kinda want the driver completely inside if possible, thus the horn approach. Something with proven results, and a reasonable budget. Three sets of DIY speakers looking at me now, so I'm not afraid of a more complex build. I've worked with bassbox but again more interested in the horn designs.. Just hoping some plans for something would show up somewhere? I keep finding extra large "pro" bass bins, typically 15's or bigger! not horrible for HT? But not likely good for hifi I'm thinking..
There's a bunch of diy designs. The difference between an ottoman and a coffee table in size and shape is huge. But even for an ottoman you might get away with a SS15 (although it would be a big ottoman). As far as coffee table size that opens things up. Any design that's about 24 cubic feet or less and rectangular could be used as a coffee table. A lot of designs fit those dimensions.
The smaller one, like the popular Tang Band/Anarchy tapped horn don't have the right dimensions for an ottoman and are too small for a coffee table.
Lilmike's Cinema F20 would make a pretty wicked coffee table. There's a bunch to choose from depending on what it is you want exactly.
The smaller one, like the popular Tang Band/Anarchy tapped horn don't have the right dimensions for an ottoman and are too small for a coffee table.
Lilmike's Cinema F20 would make a pretty wicked coffee table. There's a bunch to choose from depending on what it is you want exactly.
a sub as a coffee table... wouldn't the make for a lot of spilt coffee... and wandering magazines or toppling decor pieces the significant other puts on them to give them WAF.
^ an improper braced cab might have those problems, panels that flex may also affect performance, I think stuff on top the "table" would be ok once properly braced. However I remember bill saying that where a sub looks the best may not be where it performs the best, so having the sub in the middle of the room may or may not work best, I think a corner would be best...but who wants a coffe "table" in the corner
If you are sitting literally 2 feet from the horn mouth then the middle of the room sub position is fine. In other seating positions it might not be the best choice.
Bracing isn't going to affect the main problem much. The main problem is not panel vibrations, which are very small in amplitude. The main problem is the driver moving mass causes the cab to shake and rock. In some cases it can cause the cab to "walk" across the floor. But if large cab is laid on it's side like a coffee table there's a lot of contact with the floor, a lot of friction, and it's not going to shake much, it won't rock at all and it certainly won't "walk" away.
Bracing isn't going to affect the main problem much. The main problem is not panel vibrations, which are very small in amplitude. The main problem is the driver moving mass causes the cab to shake and rock. In some cases it can cause the cab to "walk" across the floor. But if large cab is laid on it's side like a coffee table there's a lot of contact with the floor, a lot of friction, and it's not going to shake much, it won't rock at all and it certainly won't "walk" away.
I suppose there is quite a difference in design between the two... I would be more after the ottoman style, something like 36 X 36 X 17ish. 13-14 cubic feet. I would point the horn where it seemed best at the time, big rubber feet would keep it still I'm sure. This is why my research had me looking at the TT from that other guy.... Something else in that footprint come to mind? Perhaps a band pass design would keep the driver internal as well?
I've peeked at the lilmike anarchy tapped horn and would make a couple of those for the back corners in a heart beat, but although not in there a lot, the WAF and room layout makes the ottoman work... And I think it would be just plain fun to have.
Unfortunately the Xoc1 TH-18 is just a bit bigger than your desired dimensions. Too bad, that would be a wicked ottoman.
If you look around there should be a few in this rectangular form factor that fit your desired dimensions. But if dimensions are the primary goal you might end up with a tuning or some other performance characteristic that isn't exactly what you want.
You could design your own. It takes some time but isn't terribly hard.
If you look around there should be a few in this rectangular form factor that fit your desired dimensions. But if dimensions are the primary goal you might end up with a tuning or some other performance characteristic that isn't exactly what you want.
You could design your own. It takes some time but isn't terribly hard.
SS15 and TH18 are both prosound cabinets. If this were for a living room and indoor listening I'd want something tuned wayyyy lower.
You may find some inspiration here.
Tapped Horns
You may find some inspiration here.
Tapped Horns
Talking about prosound cabinets, you could build a 15" wide Cubo Sub, if you load it with 2 drivers (the baffle is deep enough to fit 2 x 8"). Or you could make it just wide enough to fit a single driver (9 - 10" external width) and add something underneath (zodat je je voeten kwijt kunt 😉. It would be usable down to about 27 Hz.
I've used the first Cubo Sub in my living room, with good results, untill I designed something with the same response but just over 50 liters external. It doesn't drop as low as you might ultimately want for HT but still enough to occasionally shake the room, with the average movie.
Best regards Johan
I've used the first Cubo Sub in my living room, with good results, untill I designed something with the same response but just over 50 liters external. It doesn't drop as low as you might ultimately want for HT but still enough to occasionally shake the room, with the average movie.
Best regards Johan
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