I don't have MLTL experience, but someone that does is likely to chime in. You can search the forum for full-range designs that could be adapted to your application as well.
On bass quantity, size/excursion are your friend. Many full-range drivers have limited excursion, so that's something to keep an eye on. You can still get punchy bass, but very low frequencies are likely to be more restricted in SPL. In some cases that's totally acceptable though. Different people have different opinions about how much bass is enough. Since most consoles seem to go against a wall, that will help reinforce the lower frequencies also.
On bass quantity, size/excursion are your friend. Many full-range drivers have limited excursion, so that's something to keep an eye on. You can still get punchy bass, but very low frequencies are likely to be more restricted in SPL. In some cases that's totally acceptable though. Different people have different opinions about how much bass is enough. Since most consoles seem to go against a wall, that will help reinforce the lower frequencies also.
First step into the thread. My first thot on seeing the title was sealed SEAS FA22 (with phase plugs). I am using them downstairs in similar available volume and the sonics are very good and the character would fit a console rebuild. Mine currently driven by an ACA.
Whatever you do, if not mentioned, you will likely need new baffles.
dave
Sealed - I wonder how much Bass EQ FA22 can handle to extend the bass down a little, at moderate to somewhat loud volumes..
I have active bass EQ boards - electrical slopes shown in attachment.
Removing the slats is a good idea. Funky retro grille cloth on removable grilles will look nice.. I would want to leave center potion as in but could use bracing inside.
FA22 is $328ca each.. I could spend about half that amount on a pair of full range drivers.. Any other choice that comes close for $150ca.
After watching Joseph Crowe's review on FA22 it is definitely something I would like to try in a dedicated stereo pair..
I have active bass EQ boards - electrical slopes shown in attachment.
Removing the slats is a good idea. Funky retro grille cloth on removable grilles will look nice.. I would want to leave center potion as in but could use bracing inside.
FA22 is $328ca each.. I could spend about half that amount on a pair of full range drivers.. Any other choice that comes close for $150ca.
After watching Joseph Crowe's review on FA22 it is definitely something I would like to try in a dedicated stereo pair..
Attachments
What? When i got them they were just over $100 USD each. Now $212 USD each. That largely prices them out of contention. But they are one of only 2 or 3 8” i liked.
FA22 in a sealed box does just fine. They won’t fit into $600 item to be sold and leave any room for profit.
Maybe the Wild Burro? Or a WAW. My thots started to wondering how Tysen could be adapted to fit inside.
I have 2 or 3 totes full of vintage grills i have salvaged. Want some?
dave
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Given that you're trying to resell and will likely have customers that aren't really audiophiles, I would be inclined to test a few different driver price points and see how much bang for the buck they produce. I don't have experience with these, but they are ones I would test if I were doing something similar:
US$14 each, GRS Pioneer Type B20FU20-51FW
https://www.parts-express.com/GRS-8...-Pioneer-Type-B20FU20-51FW-292-430?quantity=1
$35 each, Goldwood GW-8003/8
https://www.parts-express.com/Goldwood-GW-8003-8-8-Full-Range-Driver-w-Whizzer-290-379?quantity=1
$60 each, SB Acoustics SB20FRPC30-8
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...sb-acoustics-sb20frpc30-8-8-paper-full-range/
My general approach to things like this is to use an active analog EQ for initial testing. Massage that to produce the most pleasing sound and decide if it's good enough and reasonably reproducible by another means. Once through that hoop, start working on actual circuits to try to reproduce the frequency response. Being able to adjust knobs/sliders in real time speeds things up dramatically vs. messing with circuitry or even having to save presets, etc. to a DSP.
I would definitely start with a simple enclosure and see how far you can get with that. If sealed is good enough, just leave it at that and don't complicate your life. Interesting enclosure designs have their place, but at the price point you're shooting for, I wouldn't get creative if it can be avoided.
Most any box simulation software/spreadsheet will give you an accurate estimate of what the bottom end is going to do from a frequency response and excursion standpoint. You can then estimate how things are affected by bass boost. Each 6 dB of boost at whatever frequency will require 2x the excursion. What typical software can't tell you is how the speaker plays beyond its Xmax. Some do so gracefully, others do not. In the end, you really have to build things and listen to them, but the software can tell you when things are just a bad idea from the outset.
And one more driver that might be interesting, because it has a little more flexibility. The tweeter could be used to broaden the high frequency dispersion. This likely won't have much affect on your concern about imaging/speaker location because the tweeter probably comes in very high, but it might make the sound more pleasing across a wider listening area. Q&A section says the crossover is built in, but sometimes that can be replaced relatively easily. If it's OK as is, again simplify and leave it alone.
Goldwood GW-8004 8" Coaxial Speaker
https://www.parts-express.com/Goldwood-GW-8004-8-8-Coaxial-Speaker-290-378?quantity=1
US$14 each, GRS Pioneer Type B20FU20-51FW
https://www.parts-express.com/GRS-8...-Pioneer-Type-B20FU20-51FW-292-430?quantity=1
$35 each, Goldwood GW-8003/8
https://www.parts-express.com/Goldwood-GW-8003-8-8-Full-Range-Driver-w-Whizzer-290-379?quantity=1
$60 each, SB Acoustics SB20FRPC30-8
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...sb-acoustics-sb20frpc30-8-8-paper-full-range/
My general approach to things like this is to use an active analog EQ for initial testing. Massage that to produce the most pleasing sound and decide if it's good enough and reasonably reproducible by another means. Once through that hoop, start working on actual circuits to try to reproduce the frequency response. Being able to adjust knobs/sliders in real time speeds things up dramatically vs. messing with circuitry or even having to save presets, etc. to a DSP.
I would definitely start with a simple enclosure and see how far you can get with that. If sealed is good enough, just leave it at that and don't complicate your life. Interesting enclosure designs have their place, but at the price point you're shooting for, I wouldn't get creative if it can be avoided.
Most any box simulation software/spreadsheet will give you an accurate estimate of what the bottom end is going to do from a frequency response and excursion standpoint. You can then estimate how things are affected by bass boost. Each 6 dB of boost at whatever frequency will require 2x the excursion. What typical software can't tell you is how the speaker plays beyond its Xmax. Some do so gracefully, others do not. In the end, you really have to build things and listen to them, but the software can tell you when things are just a bad idea from the outset.
And one more driver that might be interesting, because it has a little more flexibility. The tweeter could be used to broaden the high frequency dispersion. This likely won't have much affect on your concern about imaging/speaker location because the tweeter probably comes in very high, but it might make the sound more pleasing across a wider listening area. Q&A section says the crossover is built in, but sometimes that can be replaced relatively easily. If it's OK as is, again simplify and leave it alone.
Goldwood GW-8004 8" Coaxial Speaker
https://www.parts-express.com/Goldwood-GW-8004-8-8-Coaxial-Speaker-290-378?quantity=1
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"I have 2 or 3 totes full of vintage grills i have salvaged. Want some?"
thanks Dave. My plan is to use new cloth in a retro style - Guilford of Maine has nice options for new and fresh fabric. I have a few large scraps and lots of samples for ordering something interesting.
Thanks Mattstat for the links to potential full range drivers..
I'll use a sub $100 full ranger for my console with no modifications to the front face of the unit..
I'm looking a facebook and see other consoles that would be suitable for a more advanced upgrade. These consoles, I would rework the front with all grille cloth. The center portion can have absorption material behind the cloth through the center.
thanks Dave. My plan is to use new cloth in a retro style - Guilford of Maine has nice options for new and fresh fabric. I have a few large scraps and lots of samples for ordering something interesting.
Thanks Mattstat for the links to potential full range drivers..
I'll use a sub $100 full ranger for my console with no modifications to the front face of the unit..
I'm looking a facebook and see other consoles that would be suitable for a more advanced upgrade. These consoles, I would rework the front with all grille cloth. The center portion can have absorption material behind the cloth through the center.
After much consideration 8 inch full range is out! A smaller fullrange is prefered considering the treble should be much better than with 8 inchers, and planing 250hz sub
Mark Audio Drivers CHR-70A Gen3 availability sourced from Canada?
I'm interested in 4 units - The USD price is attractive but with conversion and shipping hoping I can do better from Canadian source.
I've found a second console for free. It's very similar to the piece in post 16 and in great condition..
So, both consoles will have the same system.
I'm removing the slats and replacing the baffles with solid walnut to match walnut console and adding removable grilles.
The center flat surface has to stay so it is what is is, but I could experiment with slats over the flat surface through the center to act as a diffuser.
Single down firing sub with analogue active crossover and preferably no filters needed for the Mark audio drivers, just level control from the active crossover.
Mark Audio Drivers CHR-70A Gen3 availability sourced from Canada?
I'm interested in 4 units - The USD price is attractive but with conversion and shipping hoping I can do better from Canadian source.
I've found a second console for free. It's very similar to the piece in post 16 and in great condition..
So, both consoles will have the same system.
I'm removing the slats and replacing the baffles with solid walnut to match walnut console and adding removable grilles.
The center flat surface has to stay so it is what is is, but I could experiment with slats over the flat surface through the center to act as a diffuser.
Single down firing sub with analogue active crossover and preferably no filters needed for the Mark audio drivers, just level control from the active crossover.
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Markaudio drivers are best gotten from Madisound.
Given the woofer in each, have a look at the CHN-50.
Or if you want to eliminate teh need fro a woofer, the CHN-110.
Both have cheap (but well designed) stamped baskets, are cheap, and outstanding, especially when th eprice is added in. The CHN-110 goes pretty low, can use much of the space available in a console. In terms of response it is also one of the very best, you might be able to live with out the EQ board.
dave
Given the woofer in each, have a look at the CHN-50.
Or if you want to eliminate teh need fro a woofer, the CHN-110.
Both have cheap (but well designed) stamped baskets, are cheap, and outstanding, especially when th eprice is added in. The CHN-110 goes pretty low, can use much of the space available in a console. In terms of response it is also one of the very best, you might be able to live with out the EQ board.
dave
Thanks for the updates! I’m interested to see what you end up liking.
My console has a turntable shelf that takes up 4 inches of space. So I am a bit more restricted for space.
I thought about building a pre designed fast WAW setup out of insulation foam. I ended up getting a good price on some Paradigm mini monitor v6s. They sound good enough inside the console even though the twitters are almost 2 feet below ear height.
Before that I had a thrift store setup with some smaller bookshelf speakers with 3-4” full range drivers, and a cheap powered sub. The highs sounded nice, but the mids were very muddy.
The slats and trim on the front of my console are plastic with walnut ply behind the trim. I’ll have to replace the plastic with walnut.
My console has a turntable shelf that takes up 4 inches of space. So I am a bit more restricted for space.
I thought about building a pre designed fast WAW setup out of insulation foam. I ended up getting a good price on some Paradigm mini monitor v6s. They sound good enough inside the console even though the twitters are almost 2 feet below ear height.
Before that I had a thrift store setup with some smaller bookshelf speakers with 3-4” full range drivers, and a cheap powered sub. The highs sounded nice, but the mids were very muddy.
The slats and trim on the front of my console are plastic with walnut ply behind the trim. I’ll have to replace the plastic with walnut.
Post #27, I intended to attach mark audio driver specs not the full range eq curves as I already posted them!
Looks like I'll be ordering several drivers form Madisound. CHN-50 looks great for my 2 way budget passive speakers! Really like the champagne driver to be used in the console.. Thanks!
My plan is for full range units in tubes leaving as much of the box volume for the sub, extensive bracing to be determined..
2-3 inch space under the lid. Prefer all of the top open- I'll see if I can work that out without damaging anything
Looks like I'll be ordering several drivers form Madisound. CHN-50 looks great for my 2 way budget passive speakers! Really like the champagne driver to be used in the console.. Thanks!
My plan is for full range units in tubes leaving as much of the box volume for the sub, extensive bracing to be determined..
2-3 inch space under the lid. Prefer all of the top open- I'll see if I can work that out without damaging anything
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Mine are copper. Champange is a left over colour name from some ancient CHRs (as is Gold, last seen in the Alpair 6.1/10.1 . I went looking at Madisound and at KJF and could one find silver (called Grey?)
dave
A5.1 in 4” pipes. If you go sealed see plot, these are midTLs (yo’d run them out the back..
dave