This is a 1971 Sylvania Console I got for $50.
The Multi-Way design question:
I'm thinking about forgetting the tweeter and going with a 2-way with a full-range 3" to keep the crossover design simple. I imagine I'll have to change the crossover a couple of times to get it to sound decent.
For the 10" Woofer I am thinking of a Dayton Classic DC250-8 and filling the enclosure with poly-fill
For the 3" Mid / Full-Range I am thinking about FaitalPro or Peerless. They both fit in the 2" deep gap (2nd pic), and stuffing the surrounding area with poly-fill to see if it sounds acceptable.
- 10" "Air Suspension" Woofer
- 3" Mid
- 2" Tweeter
- Original Amp 2 x 50w
The Multi-Way design question:
- Enclosure for the 10" is around 1.2 sq ft
- The 3" mid does not have an enclosure and sits in a 2" deep space between the OSB for the 10" woofer. (2nd pic)
I'm thinking about forgetting the tweeter and going with a 2-way with a full-range 3" to keep the crossover design simple. I imagine I'll have to change the crossover a couple of times to get it to sound decent.
For the 10" Woofer I am thinking of a Dayton Classic DC250-8 and filling the enclosure with poly-fill
For the 3" Mid / Full-Range I am thinking about FaitalPro or Peerless. They both fit in the 2" deep gap (2nd pic), and stuffing the surrounding area with poly-fill to see if it sounds acceptable.
Welcome to the forum!
A alternative often suggested is to build a couple of 2-way speaker enclosures dimensioned to fit into the console and fire out through the existing grille openings.
Such an approach can produce better results, particularly if the original drivers operated in a console with an open/slotted back.
A 2-way speaker is certainly much easier to design than a three-way speaker with respect to the complexity of the crossover network.
Anyhow, let's see if that gets your thread off and running!
A alternative often suggested is to build a couple of 2-way speaker enclosures dimensioned to fit into the console and fire out through the existing grille openings.
Such an approach can produce better results, particularly if the original drivers operated in a console with an open/slotted back.
A 2-way speaker is certainly much easier to design than a three-way speaker with respect to the complexity of the crossover network.
Anyhow, let's see if that gets your thread off and running!
It's an interesting arrangement where the woofer sits in its own 'cylindrical' enclosure within the main enclosure.
I would definitely favour your idea of a 2-way "woofer with 3" full range arrangement" over a 3-way design.
The Dayton Classic DC250-8 specs are here: https://www.daytonaudio.com/images/resources/295-315-dayton-audio-dc250-8-specifications-46150.pdf
I reckon it would suit the available 1.2 cu ft sealed enclosure, giving an enclosure resonance frequency of around 50 Hz.
As a first crossover attempt, you could try a 0.6 mH inductor in series with the woofer and a 10 uF film capacitor in series with the 3" driver.
Your 3 " driver should have a sensitivity a tad greater than that of the Dayton woofer. If the 3" proves too loud, you can alway insert an attenuating resistor in series.
That's me keeping it simple, (a) since it's your first post, and, (b) because simple may be best for this project.
Do come back with your thoughts or questions, as that is the way to keep your thread active.
I would definitely favour your idea of a 2-way "woofer with 3" full range arrangement" over a 3-way design.
The Dayton Classic DC250-8 specs are here: https://www.daytonaudio.com/images/resources/295-315-dayton-audio-dc250-8-specifications-46150.pdf
I reckon it would suit the available 1.2 cu ft sealed enclosure, giving an enclosure resonance frequency of around 50 Hz.
As a first crossover attempt, you could try a 0.6 mH inductor in series with the woofer and a 10 uF film capacitor in series with the 3" driver.
Your 3 " driver should have a sensitivity a tad greater than that of the Dayton woofer. If the 3" proves too loud, you can alway insert an attenuating resistor in series.
That's me keeping it simple, (a) since it's your first post, and, (b) because simple may be best for this project.
Do come back with your thoughts or questions, as that is the way to keep your thread active.
Thanks Galu! Hearing your input is way more helpful than looking at spec sheets on PE!
Do you think there's any chance the 3" will sound decent without a true enclosure? I'd love to hear how the existing woofer enclosure sounds.
I'll keep posting updates. Thanks for being so welcoming/
Do you think there's any chance the 3" will sound decent without a true enclosure? I'd love to hear how the existing woofer enclosure sounds.
I'll keep posting updates. Thanks for being so welcoming/
The other option I have thought of is an 8" full-range speaker in the existing enclosure with a tweeter. I don't want to loose the mid-range detail though.
What about getting an old AVR off Craigslist and use it to build a 2.1 system. Looks like you have room to put a 12 inch sub and a pair of 2-ways in each end. The AVR will split the lows to a sub for you. Maybe get an old sub of CL too. Then do some creative wood-working/hacking.
Since it would only be working in the upper midrange and above, the console baffle itself would be sufficient.
A 3" open back full range would only need a dedicated enclosure if it were to be subject to the back pressure from the woofer.
If you keep the woofer separate in its own dedicated enclosure, an enclosure for the 3" won't be necessary.
There are so many options possible here, we could talk all night! 🙂
If you want an 8" speaker, you would have to consider how it would be mounted and enclosed.
I like my initial idea where you could simply incorporate a published 2-way speaker design. The enclosures don't have to consist of more than raw MDF.
Going further than that requires you to have experience of loudspeaker enclosure design - have you any?
With sealed backs you could use them as they are. They appear to be AlNiCo. If they are still matched they might sound good as is, or with some crossover adjustment.
If I am correct, Allen, dannyroll's talking of using a 3" full-range speaker and not the existing sealed back mid.
Quote: "I'm thinking about forgetting the tweeter and going with a 2-way with a full-range 3" to keep the crossover design simple. For the 3" Mid / Full-Range I am thinking about FaitalPro or Peerless."
Quote: "I'm thinking about forgetting the tweeter and going with a 2-way with a full-range 3" to keep the crossover design simple. For the 3" Mid / Full-Range I am thinking about FaitalPro or Peerless."
Last edited:
I don’t have any experience. 🙃 I’ll stay with a published 2-way speaker design.
That’s great to hear. Thanks!
I ruined one of the mids while removing one of the corroded terminals… then my toddler got her hands on it. So that’s not an option anymore ☺️
The only problem I see with my sub idea is the turntable, you would need to isolate it from the vibrations created by a sub, maybe something like the old AR turntables, I remember the salesman's demo, he would hit the base with a hammer and the tone arm wouldn't skip.
Okay so, I had some time today to reproach this project. I am going to build a budget bookshelf speaker build that fits.
Any recommended budget builds with decent plans that fit nicely?
I'll stay away from the 2.1 setup for now so I don't have to worry about the turntable vibrations. Also, most of my listening will be at low to medium volume. I have a toddler 😉
Another caveat is how low the speaker placement is. The top of the speaker cabinet will be 20-21" off the ground (carpet). I guess I need something that will sound good off axis.
Here's the dimensions I have to work with:
Looking for:
I will remove the speaker cloth and cut the panel as needed. The speaker will probably be 3/4" MDF.
Any recommended budget builds with decent plans that fit nicely?
I'll stay away from the 2.1 setup for now so I don't have to worry about the turntable vibrations. Also, most of my listening will be at low to medium volume. I have a toddler 😉
Another caveat is how low the speaker placement is. The top of the speaker cabinet will be 20-21" off the ground (carpet). I guess I need something that will sound good off axis.
Here's the dimensions I have to work with:
- height = 14 inch
- Width of Grill opening = 9 inch
- Width of cabinet can be up to 24 inch
- Depth = 16 inch
Looking for:
- Budget friendly like Paul Carmody's Overnight Sensations or Classic II
- Off axis friendly with low height
- Good miss and highs, I'm not a bass head. I like open backed headphones.
- Decent Soundstage
I will remove the speaker cloth and cut the panel as needed. The speaker will probably be 3/4" MDF.
Last edited:
I like the plan - not sure if I can help with the choice of budget loudspeaker build though.
To clarify the budget, I can purchase the Paul Carmody's Overnight Sensations kit for €225.
https://www.soundimports.eu/en/overnight-sensations.html
To clarify the budget, I can purchase the Paul Carmody's Overnight Sensations kit for €225.
https://www.soundimports.eu/en/overnight-sensations.html
I was about to start a new thread but thought posting here might be a better choice!
I've completely gutted my console and the exterior finish has been stripped and refinished..
My plan will utilize an active analogue 2 way crossover with a single subwoofer in the middle.
The stereo speakers will be 2way passive and there's enough box volume to use a 6.5 inch woofer
per side and cross below 120hz to center sub with left/right signal mixed to mono.
Looking for advice and suggestions for directivity control? the stereo pair is to close together with a lot of reflections from the middle hard wood surface, which creates forward and distracting center energy. My first thought was to simple use 2" broadband drivers crossed at 700hz and angle them outward and find a sweet spot but this will produce stronger wall reflections..
I'm now heavily leaning towards waveguides or horns. Any suggestions on a upper-mid/treble solution? The c/c spacing of the stereo pair is 50 inches..
Also, aesthetically I prefer a down firing sub but imagine all kinds of FR issues(measured and audible) that I won't be happy with without DSP.
I will brace the cabinet very well after I decide on front or down-firing..
I've completely gutted my console and the exterior finish has been stripped and refinished..
My plan will utilize an active analogue 2 way crossover with a single subwoofer in the middle.
The stereo speakers will be 2way passive and there's enough box volume to use a 6.5 inch woofer
per side and cross below 120hz to center sub with left/right signal mixed to mono.
Looking for advice and suggestions for directivity control? the stereo pair is to close together with a lot of reflections from the middle hard wood surface, which creates forward and distracting center energy. My first thought was to simple use 2" broadband drivers crossed at 700hz and angle them outward and find a sweet spot but this will produce stronger wall reflections..
I'm now heavily leaning towards waveguides or horns. Any suggestions on a upper-mid/treble solution? The c/c spacing of the stereo pair is 50 inches..
Also, aesthetically I prefer a down firing sub but imagine all kinds of FR issues(measured and audible) that I won't be happy with without DSP.
I will brace the cabinet very well after I decide on front or down-firing..
Attachments
Are you speculating or have you tried these configurations and found them lacking?
I did place a set of bookshelf 2 ways at 50" c/c with a wood sheet between the speakers so it closely resembled the console configuration.. It was somewhat acceptable with the speakers toed out.
I haven't tried a down-firing sub but plan to.
I haven't tried a down-firing sub but plan to.
The down-firing sub should be OK as long as you keep the crossover reasonably low. That's a pretty common configuration, and 120 Hz seems workable. DSP is typically helpful to flatten in-room response, but I don't think your sub being down-fire presents any specific challenges because of that aspect.
On the stereo side of your problem, I haven't tried these to deal with your particular issue, but I'll just throw out a couple ideas because you didn't mention them: 1) you could go with a larger full-range type driver to restrict dispersion more. How big, and how much, I'm not sure. 2) you could try dipoles - assuming you want to experiment and aren't going for extreme output. You don't have enough depth for an optimal configuration, but some absorbers on the rear wall of the cabinet might make it tolerable. The top and bottom of the baffle could probably attach to your current cabinet, making it behave like a larger baffle than its restricted width would imply. With the slats in front of them, I'm not sure how it'll all shake out. If you get lucky, sometimes the bottom end of a dipole will be OK without a bunch of equalization, but there are so many variables it's typically easier to just throw something together and measure it to see what happens instead of trying to model it all.
A lot of this is going to depend on your desired output, how much you want to experiment, how you intend to use the system, etc. Like are you really trying to optimize imaging for a single listening position or is this more casual listening/TV?
It's one of those cases where I'd try to mock up a few things cheap and quick and get a feel for what's going on, like you did with the bookshelf 2-ways 👍.
On the stereo side of your problem, I haven't tried these to deal with your particular issue, but I'll just throw out a couple ideas because you didn't mention them: 1) you could go with a larger full-range type driver to restrict dispersion more. How big, and how much, I'm not sure. 2) you could try dipoles - assuming you want to experiment and aren't going for extreme output. You don't have enough depth for an optimal configuration, but some absorbers on the rear wall of the cabinet might make it tolerable. The top and bottom of the baffle could probably attach to your current cabinet, making it behave like a larger baffle than its restricted width would imply. With the slats in front of them, I'm not sure how it'll all shake out. If you get lucky, sometimes the bottom end of a dipole will be OK without a bunch of equalization, but there are so many variables it's typically easier to just throw something together and measure it to see what happens instead of trying to model it all.
A lot of this is going to depend on your desired output, how much you want to experiment, how you intend to use the system, etc. Like are you really trying to optimize imaging for a single listening position or is this more casual listening/TV?
It's one of those cases where I'd try to mock up a few things cheap and quick and get a feel for what's going on, like you did with the bookshelf 2-ways 👍.
Thanks mattstat. So, I really like the full-range idea.
What about MLTL with a large full-ranger. Pass full range EQ could be implemented, if needed! Cost could be kept lower without a sub
Here is more of the plan details.
1) I'll be offering this unit for sale at a vintage MCM furniture store.
My max cost should not exceed $600 , includes diy amps . I pay no more than 100 for the consoles. End user has to supply source/ streamer etc but otherwise console is ready to use in any room size and location.
2) Design should produce intense bass quality
3) Console is kept original with nothing added to the exterior. The full-ranger will mount behind slats and grill cloth
4) The TV will mount with a bracket attached at the rear so top cover can open
5) The top cover opens to a 4" space for ipad and other devices. 4 inch space reduces the inner volume..
6) Best sound at center listening position for TV/Music but decent fidelity with intense bass when at a distance off axis.
Attached drawing - I'll net about 80L for each side with a center divider.
The Vent could be down firing near center brace or front vent is doable and might look good, especially slotted with some walnut trim pieces..
I haven't modelled an MLTL.. With 80L I suppose I could come up with a woofer for Full range slot vented but does a full range woofer with QT< 0.45
but, Intense MLTL bass I think would be the perfect characteristic for this project..
What about MLTL with a large full-ranger. Pass full range EQ could be implemented, if needed! Cost could be kept lower without a sub
Here is more of the plan details.
1) I'll be offering this unit for sale at a vintage MCM furniture store.
My max cost should not exceed $600 , includes diy amps . I pay no more than 100 for the consoles. End user has to supply source/ streamer etc but otherwise console is ready to use in any room size and location.
2) Design should produce intense bass quality
3) Console is kept original with nothing added to the exterior. The full-ranger will mount behind slats and grill cloth
4) The TV will mount with a bracket attached at the rear so top cover can open
5) The top cover opens to a 4" space for ipad and other devices. 4 inch space reduces the inner volume..
6) Best sound at center listening position for TV/Music but decent fidelity with intense bass when at a distance off axis.
Attached drawing - I'll net about 80L for each side with a center divider.
The Vent could be down firing near center brace or front vent is doable and might look good, especially slotted with some walnut trim pieces..
I haven't modelled an MLTL.. With 80L I suppose I could come up with a woofer for Full range slot vented but does a full range woofer with QT< 0.45
but, Intense MLTL bass I think would be the perfect characteristic for this project..
Last edited by a moderator: