Sure! With or without sub makes no difference to me (balance is the same after DSP) but masterings of albums are all over the place. Usually depending on the region they were made for.
I used to play vinyl, had a large collection and some bands never sounded "just right" on CD compared to those. For instance, it wasn't until the 2015 Remasters that I could comfortably play Led Zeppelin on (High Res in this case) another format than Vinyl and be happy. Same goes for Van Halen, and I'm not entirely happy with their late remasters. The High res are ok at best while de CD pressings are totally different.
2012 remasters for Zappa are excellent. Most everything by Steve Hofman has quite good balance (E.g. all Doors albums mastered by him).
Lots of remasters are worse than their original though and show limited dynamic range. Lots of CD's lack true low bass. Not a fan of a lot of 80's stuff with regards to mastering for CD.
60's and 70's often sounds wonderful though. Japanese pressings often have very good tonal balance, found some real good stuff there. The SHM CD's and SACD's usually fearure better
balance than lots of other remakes, without making it a totally different piece of music (which often happens too). So I don't think it's the SHM part or the higher res (SA) that makes it
sound better, just a more thoughtful remaster. Some high res digital downloads feature better balance too, like the Zeppelin albums I mentioned earlier. Not all CD counterparts have that
same balance.
Recordings that are important to me, I've bought more than once to find the right balance. It helps to first check https://dr.loudness-war.info/
It's not the end all, as it doesn't tell anything about the tonal balance, but it may give hints towards a better dynamic range example of your favorite album.
Usually everything around 12 dB dynamic range or higher would be a good guess to try, the new stuff often is less than 7! Especially (a lot of) the remasters!
A new found hobby, right?
Couldn’t agree with you more, @wesayso. It’s been a newfound hobby ever since 2014, when I walked into the Hong Kong Record Museum. Being able to hear split-second back-to-back comparisons of the same tracks pressed in different countries, years, and every format (including many original production master tapes on full studio-sized Studer rigs), it really opens one’s eyes, or, ears!Sure! With or without sub makes no difference to me (balance is the same after DSP) but masterings of albums are all over the place. Usually depending on the region they were made for.
I used to play vinyl, had a large collection and some bands never sounded "just right" on CD compared to those. For instance, it wasn't until the 2015 Remasters that I could comfortably play Led Zeppelin on (High Res in this case) another format than Vinyl and be happy. Same goes for Van Halen, and I'm not entirely happy with their late remasters. The High res are ok at best while de CD pressings are totally different.
2012 remasters for Zappa are excellent. Most everything by Steve Hofman has quite good balance (E.g. all Doors albums mastered by him).
Lots of remasters are worse than their original though and show limited dynamic range. Lots of CD's lack true low bass. Not a fan of a lot of 80's stuff with regards to mastering for CD.
60's and 70's often sounds wonderful though. Japanese pressings often have very good tonal balance, found some real good stuff there. The SHM CD's and SACD's usually fearure better
balance than lots of other remakes, without making it a totally different piece of music (which often happens too). So I don't think it's the SHM part or the higher res (SA) that makes it
sound better, just a more thoughtful remaster. Some high res digital downloads feature better balance too, like the Zeppelin albums I mentioned earlier. Not all CD counterparts have that
same balance.
Recordings that are important to me, I've bought more than once to find the right balance. It helps to first check https://dr.loudness-war.info/
It's not the end all, as it doesn't tell anything about the tonal balance, but it may give hints towards a better dynamic range example of your favorite album.
Usually everything around 12 dB dynamic range or higher would be a good guess to try, the new stuff often is less than 7! Especially (a lot of) the remasters!
A new found hobby, right?
But still surprising to me just how much variance shows between bass tracks with this array. If I can avoid DSP (I want to, because I surely lack the interest in, and knack for it that you’ve demo’ed over the years!), I’ll likely need some sort of passive preamp to separate the signals to (1) main amp —> arrays vs. (2) source —> powered subs (x2 or x4…), so I can attenuate bass as needed with the turn of a single dial. Not sure there’s such a passive preamp out there, but I’m looking.
I know you don’t want DSP but it’s going to be very hard to set up a passive system right first time. It will be easier to work out what you need first and find a configuration that sounds good and then if necessary, swap the components for passive equivalents.
I recommend again that you try a car head unit which will allow you to experiment with a decent line level crossover and bi-amping cheaply.
I haven’t used, or heard this one personally so it may or may not be OK but, in my experience, Alpine sound is pretty good in general and this model has a configurable 2/3 way crossover. This is the one I would pick for myself for experimenting with if I was buying new.
Alpine CDE-196 DAB
https://www.alpine.co.uk/p/Products/SingleView/cde-196dab
It can be powered from a PC power supply.
Pick a PSU with a single 12V rail. Seasonic, Antec and Corsair are all good brands. A platinum rated PSU will be more efficient at low load and will save electricity. You need to connect 2 pins of the big motherboard connector together (one pin needs to be connected to the ground pin next to it) to get the PSU to switch on. After that, you can just use it like a normal 12V PSU.
The main problem is that car radios use the car battery to store their configuration and, if the power is switched off, they lose their settings. I just leave the PC PSU on all the time and reprogram the stereo if there is a power cut. It would be possible to do something better but I haven’t found it necessary.
You can read the instructions to see how to change the bass level. With my setup, I can use the volume control of the amp that powers the subs. If you are only using one head unit, you will probably have to press a button first to change to the sub level setting mode and then turn the dial to adjust it.
I really appreciate your level of detail, @heb1001.
I did, however, almost spit out my coffee when I saw the price of that car audio head. Not exactly the £5 critters you found 😅🤣
That chain would be going the opposite direction of my aim. It would introduce extra interconnects, a switching PSU, and need for 24/7 “on” - all things that don’t jive well with the other parts I’m using or a modular (to put away frequently) approach. Fair angle to use for research, I agree, and while not cheap, less expensive than charging in with high end stuff, but I do prefer to keep the chain as simple as I can.*
Can’t use anything that would fail to do hi res audio files. Some of the files are in formats that Alpine and other car audio amps won’t likely do.
I’ll probably convince myself to try a pair of RCA splitters straight out of the source (DAC, CD player, phono preamp; none of which have to be connected at the same time). If I do source —> integrated amp powering the arrays (and presently, the subs too), and also source —> passive preamp with 1-in / 4-out (Goldpoint makes some that apparently test very well), that would let me continue to use my setup, but adjust 4+ powered subs with either a single stereo dial or dual mono dials, depending on the preamp model. I’m not keen on the idea of using RCA jack splitters, but I’m thinking that plus an unpowered preamp could be a less disruptive route to manage bass manually. Those Goldpoints are pricey, but when I think about how many times in the past few weeks I’ve bolted back and forth to lean over the subs, adjust and re-adjust multiple level dials on the rear plates… and that’s before trying out four subs, ha!
*Yes, I realize using a bunch of D-class powered subs with individually-set levels is not the clearest way to make a simple chain. Problem of mixing DIY with admiration for a particular product line, sigh.
Fingers crossed for wood-cutting weather this weekend!
Hello @heb1001 , long time now.
Welcome and thanks for your interest, @Barry NJ .
( and a big thanks to Elena of diyAudio for her help with the password stuff! )
Where to start with updates after the better part of a year? I wish there were more, but still plenty for now. Much more time (of what little’s been available) spent listening to music than toying around with setup.
I did do more with the two TR3D subwoofers and:
Having 2+ subs in mono per channel should offer worthwhile improvement but is a lifestyle issue at present. And obviously not cheap, either.
I still need to “fly” each sub - I want to use eye hooks in the foot-screw holes and suspend each sub upside down via steel rope; I do not yet have a suspension frame(s) sufficient to try this.
I have taken initial steps to try “active” L / R :
Using 2 inexpensive class D chip amps and 2 generic switching PSU’s, I’ve run Strada monitors (counting Stradas 1-to-6 per channel, top-down) 1 and 6 from one amp (4 ohm nominal load), and monitors 2, 3, 4, 5 from another amp (8 ohm nominal). IOW, the peripheral monitors can be level-adjusted separately of the central monitors by way of the power amps feeding them. I could potentially do this with up to 6 amps/PSUs run in stereo (1 amp per L / R pair of Strada), or even 12 amps/PSUs run from 1 channel each (1 amp per 1 Strada). That’s a lot of power cord action, but interesting to me as it would be fully analogue shading - zero DSP.
Obviously that idea doesn’t address alterations of phase, frequency etc. Not real EQ and likely limited in utility relative to the amount of wire mess it would make.
I can’t move the speakers forward/backward in the room due to design and lifestyle constraints, nor do I have much play in distance from side walls given the room width and furnishings. Toe-in does alter soundstage.
More to play around with, but TBH, the speakers being fed directly from either of my modest integrated amps are so much fun without any EQ (I know, I know - I’m a HERETIC - totally out of line [pun!] ) that I haven’t been bothered to grab a miniDSP or even decent microphones for a mobile app test.
Every visitor who’s listened to the speakers (audiophile-minded, engineer-minded, and many in-between) has been pleasantly surprised once he/she gets past the complete lack of a traditional focused center image / holographic soundstage in exchange for the theatric “wall of sound” effect. It’s not the sound everyone will want to have at home, but I’m still searching for the person who doesn’t love it, if that makes sense.
Welcome and thanks for your interest, @Barry NJ .
( and a big thanks to Elena of diyAudio for her help with the password stuff! )
Where to start with updates after the better part of a year? I wish there were more, but still plenty for now. Much more time (of what little’s been available) spent listening to music than toying around with setup.
I did do more with the two TR3D subwoofers and:
- 1 sub-per-channel in mono config > 2 subs-stacked in stereo config > 1 sub in stereo config
- subs not contacting floor > subs on floor for music playback
- Bolting both subs facing each other (similar to @heb1001 ) on a stiff frame of wood runners did increase SPL, but as predicted did not increase subs’ throw, which is a weakness in this setup.
- Sub throw seemed to improve with “stacked” units (1 sub on middle of bench top, 1 sub directly underneath on floor; both subs receiving stereo signal), but quality of LF reproduction in music declined when both subs played stereo signals. Having a sub(s) on floor excites the all-concrete dwelling. Gives excellent HT-style “thwomp” but decreases LF quality in music.
Having 2+ subs in mono per channel should offer worthwhile improvement but is a lifestyle issue at present. And obviously not cheap, either.
I still need to “fly” each sub - I want to use eye hooks in the foot-screw holes and suspend each sub upside down via steel rope; I do not yet have a suspension frame(s) sufficient to try this.
I have taken initial steps to try “active” L / R :
Using 2 inexpensive class D chip amps and 2 generic switching PSU’s, I’ve run Strada monitors (counting Stradas 1-to-6 per channel, top-down) 1 and 6 from one amp (4 ohm nominal load), and monitors 2, 3, 4, 5 from another amp (8 ohm nominal). IOW, the peripheral monitors can be level-adjusted separately of the central monitors by way of the power amps feeding them. I could potentially do this with up to 6 amps/PSUs run in stereo (1 amp per L / R pair of Strada), or even 12 amps/PSUs run from 1 channel each (1 amp per 1 Strada). That’s a lot of power cord action, but interesting to me as it would be fully analogue shading - zero DSP.
Obviously that idea doesn’t address alterations of phase, frequency etc. Not real EQ and likely limited in utility relative to the amount of wire mess it would make.
I can’t move the speakers forward/backward in the room due to design and lifestyle constraints, nor do I have much play in distance from side walls given the room width and furnishings. Toe-in does alter soundstage.
More to play around with, but TBH, the speakers being fed directly from either of my modest integrated amps are so much fun without any EQ (I know, I know - I’m a HERETIC - totally out of line [pun!] ) that I haven’t been bothered to grab a miniDSP or even decent microphones for a mobile app test.
Every visitor who’s listened to the speakers (audiophile-minded, engineer-minded, and many in-between) has been pleasantly surprised once he/she gets past the complete lack of a traditional focused center image / holographic soundstage in exchange for the theatric “wall of sound” effect. It’s not the sound everyone will want to have at home, but I’m still searching for the person who doesn’t love it, if that makes sense.
The steel cable suspension sounds interesting, but maybe an overly complex isolation solution. I have recently made my own isolation footers with a low durometer silicone pad and an engine expansion plug. They effectively dampen all vibration from reaching the floor and/or coming back into the speakers.
2023-02-05_09-01-13 by Barry, on Flickr
2023-02-05_09-00-52 by Barry, on Flickr
SVS makes these for subwoofer use, and at $50 for 4 is pretty reasonable(?)
I've ben an AG fan for decades now, here's my current Gallo collection...
PXL_20220110_203601796 by Barry, on Flickr
2023-02-05_09-01-13 by Barry, on Flickr
2023-02-05_09-00-52 by Barry, on Flickr
SVS makes these for subwoofer use, and at $50 for 4 is pretty reasonable(?)
I've ben an AG fan for decades now, here's my current Gallo collection...
PXL_20220110_203601796 by Barry, on Flickr
The steel cable suspension sounds interesting, but maybe an overly complex isolation solution. I have recently made my own isolation footers with a low durometer silicone pad and an engine expansion plug. They effectively dampen all vibration from reaching the floor and/or coming back into the speakers.
2023-02-05_09-01-13 by Barry, on Flickr
2023-02-05_09-00-52 by Barry, on Flickr
SVS makes these for subwoofer use, and at $50 for 4 is pretty reasonable(?)
I've ben an AG fan for decades now, here's my current Gallo collection...
PXL_20220110_203601796 by Barry, on Flickr
Now I recognize that name, Mr. Cohen. Yes many years of great input from you on the AVS Gallo thread (I’ve only been posting for a few); just noticed you followed up there, too.
I was disappointed there’d been no further queries about anything AGA in that long-quiet village.
I agree the TR3D suspension concept is too complicated for lone subs. I’d try it if I were to stack 2+ TR3D per channel in mono. It would save them from shaking each other and also spare me a chunky wood contraption. I was thinking something like individual steel cube frames like the first iteration of Gallo Ref II’s had (the “Space Frame” ). Multiple suspension cables for each “foot” could be fastened to multiple points on the frame, to share each load point. A woven approach, of sorts.
Would be even nicer if those TR3D foot brackets were around the whole circumference of the cylinder, then an 8-point, 360° torqued cabling would be possible on each end of each sub. Would give solid, circumferential fastening, and still zero baffle.
But back to I agree with you: such an exotic approach not worth it for lone subs unstacked.
The isolation feet you devised: excellent. I’m already looking into the SVS option since certain DIY components like yours can be hard to find in my area, at least for those of us who don’t keep the TaoBao app on hand.
You’d mentioned to me about custom isolation for your Ref Sig 3.5’s feet some time back on AVS, and from the look of your picture I assume it’s an similar approach as for the subs.
I’ve wanted to get away from the Gallo feet for a while. They not only mark floors, wear down over time, and crack under a bit more weight than one sub, but they also permit the subs to “dance.”
The wood base of my right LA literally has a bite out of its edge from when a friend was playing “Good Day” (Nappy Roots) and the right TR3D boogied it’s way right off the ~18” tall bench (maybe 15-20 seconds into the song)! I was lucky the power cord dislodged from the sub’s backplate - if that woofer had still been in full swing on impact, I fear to think how much damage could’ve happened internally. I was amazed (and very lucky) for zero blemishes to the sub’s exterior, nor any functionality issues, afterwards.
So yeah, anything with decent floor grip/decoupling to replace those brittle, floor-marking-sole dancin’ shoes the TR3D’s come with is most welcome!
The local SVS shop is already checking on availability with the regional distributor re: SoundPath feet.
Thank you for the suggestion!
Well, since the company was sold and Anthony left, there hasn't been any real development of product, so not much to talk about.
What I'm using now is an evolution of an earlier isolation system I was playing with, and this is better in a number of ways. Softer durometer pad for isolation at even higher frequencies, and a metal cup to hold it so that I can slide the speakers around on the floor for easier and more precise placement. It's very easy to tell they're working, At higher volumes, I can put my hand on the speaker spikes and feel some vibration, but the little cup on the floor has absolutely none.
And the SVS solution does seem similar, but it puts the soft durometer pad right on the floor. I had mine this way but wanted something to put between the silicone and the floor so I could slide the speakers. I imagine the AGA subs will be easy enough to position regardless.
Happy to help! I've read good things about the SVS feet, and have a friend in my area that uses them to good effect under his regular speakers, I hope they help your situation, and stop the dancing and tame the bass bloat. I look forward to hearing about your progress. It really is quite an impressive project!
@Barry NJ Re: AGA selling / limited product development. Yeah. Seems they focused on the lifestyle side of things. Given what a continued struggle and disappointment the hifi side of things seemed to be for the original AGA, I’m guessing it’s been the better choice, business-wise.
I do hope the company keeps the Strada x TR3D line alive. Those last iterations of Anthony’s design in the company are too fine and flexible IMO to discontinue.
The outdoor-friendly satts the new Gallo devised seem good, albeit without all-weather subwoofer support as yet (for me, OSD 10”ers fit that bill).
To be honest, I’m surprised there’s not more AVA Gallo forum-fuss over the balls for HT, now that Atmos has a solid grip on so many households. For mid-ceiling positioning, they’re hard to beat appearance-wise and size : performance-wise. Run full-range from capable channels that also won’t overdrive, the A’Diva SE is still pretty amazing even for space-constrained hifi applications. I keep meaning to post my oversimplified HT setup of A’Diva SE’s x TR3D’s in 2.2 stereo for HT, on the AVS thread. Digressing…
Circling back to the TR3D feet. Those engine caps you inverted underneath the silicon pads are a cool touch. For my use case, the SVS one-piece silicon-on-floor is better, since I move my subs multiple times each week.
When used for stereo music, the TR3D’s sit atop that steel / hardwood bench behind the LA’s; when for HT, they move to each side of the couch on the floor against a different wall and plug into a different system. IOW, when music isn’t playing the subs are off the bench, basically out of sight.
The effect of having stereo TR3D support on each side of the couch (volume pots at 9:00, 180° phase, 12:00 crossover) makes everything from tv news to heavy-impact action flics pretty impressive. No one sitting on that couch can believe all the sound from ~100 Hz up is coming from a pair of 3” drivers in 5” balls 13’ away.
But now I’m digressing bigtime!
I do hope the company keeps the Strada x TR3D line alive. Those last iterations of Anthony’s design in the company are too fine and flexible IMO to discontinue.
The outdoor-friendly satts the new Gallo devised seem good, albeit without all-weather subwoofer support as yet (for me, OSD 10”ers fit that bill).
To be honest, I’m surprised there’s not more AVA Gallo forum-fuss over the balls for HT, now that Atmos has a solid grip on so many households. For mid-ceiling positioning, they’re hard to beat appearance-wise and size : performance-wise. Run full-range from capable channels that also won’t overdrive, the A’Diva SE is still pretty amazing even for space-constrained hifi applications. I keep meaning to post my oversimplified HT setup of A’Diva SE’s x TR3D’s in 2.2 stereo for HT, on the AVS thread. Digressing…
Circling back to the TR3D feet. Those engine caps you inverted underneath the silicon pads are a cool touch. For my use case, the SVS one-piece silicon-on-floor is better, since I move my subs multiple times each week.
When used for stereo music, the TR3D’s sit atop that steel / hardwood bench behind the LA’s; when for HT, they move to each side of the couch on the floor against a different wall and plug into a different system. IOW, when music isn’t playing the subs are off the bench, basically out of sight.
The effect of having stereo TR3D support on each side of the couch (volume pots at 9:00, 180° phase, 12:00 crossover) makes everything from tv news to heavy-impact action flics pretty impressive. No one sitting on that couch can believe all the sound from ~100 Hz up is coming from a pair of 3” drivers in 5” balls 13’ away.
But now I’m digressing bigtime!
I imagine that as long as they sell, they'll continue producing them. I wasn't aware they were marketing an outdoor speaker. It's funny, FWIW, Anthony had a set of Strada out on his back deck for a couple of years as a test of sorts. They worked great out there, though I recall a little surface rust forming on some of the screws on the backs.
I hadn't visited the Gallo website in quite some time, and just saw the "Habitat" line, but I'm pretty sure that the enclosures in all the Micro and A'Diva speakers have always been stainless, so I'm not so sure about their claims of "Completely re-engineered from the inside out", but hey, good luck to them...
Totally unrelated now (my fault), those Habitat speakers are pretty cool. When they debuted in the height of Covid, I suppose it may have been the factory lines slowing down or similar, but the speakers were being assembled in Scotland by the Gallo company staff. Maybe the first time since NY that a whole line was being put together outside China, ha! Gallo-I-Y, if ya will.The re-engineering has to do with water/weatherproofing. Must’ve been tricky to get similar sound using a different woofer.
Close enough for me that I don’t think I could tell in a blind test; I haven’t measured the two models for comparison’s sake.
Great story on the outdoor Strada! I recall a fleeting press mention of those being “developed” years ago, with the only outlier being proper screws. Maybe stainless torque screws didn’t come in the right size, or the carbon fiber woofers didn’t outlive the warranty in daily UV. I’d also suspect running those snug ferrite motors in summer heat could be a problem in some places, too. Okay I’ve made my choice - the line arrays will stay INside
Close enough for me that I don’t think I could tell in a blind test; I haven’t measured the two models for comparison’s sake.
Great story on the outdoor Strada! I recall a fleeting press mention of those being “developed” years ago, with the only outlier being proper screws. Maybe stainless torque screws didn’t come in the right size, or the carbon fiber woofers didn’t outlive the warranty in daily UV. I’d also suspect running those snug ferrite motors in summer heat could be a problem in some places, too. Okay I’ve made my choice - the line arrays will stay INside
An aside, a long one, on what feeds music into these speakers.
A few weeks ago I finally gave up on the digital transport I’ve used since 2017.
Oppo Digital (California, world-reknown disc players) was ended by the parent company (mostly into phones) in the beginning of 2018.
Their Sonica DAC was a nice $ub-four-fig$ solution for a well-measuring, nice sounding option that fit both headless transport and DAC into one modest chassis.
The Oppo internal transport was managed with the Sonica phone app, slightly buggy from the get-go. Still, using it with a USB bus-powered storage drive gave results I liked when they came through the speakers - the most important thing.
The app was highly problematic within months of the company’s closure, and became so unstable as to not even open on any iOS phone with subsequent software updates and/or other apps installed (I never tried it with Android). Without a dedicated phone, the Sonica app (and thus the transport) was obsolete.
I continued (for years, yikes!) to use the app on a dedicated phone, and grumble my way through constant drop-out, freezes, reboots etc.
Until a few weeks back, when a friend noticed my RetroPie kit. He asked if I’d tried using a RPi as a music server, after he witnessed firsthand my cinema-sized sonic image suddenly going blank - it really challenges one’s sense of enjoyment.
No, I hadn’t tried. So he walked me through all the nifty little DAC-hat options that have come out in the past few years, a couple of which he uses. He was particularly enthusiastic since I had a backup NOS RPi 3b+ on hand (in case my RetroPie board ever failed). Wow - I also hadn’t been aware of what chip shortages had done to availability / cost of RPi 3 / 4 boards nowadays!
Fast-forward to now and I landed on the “HiFiBerry Digi2 Pro v2.2” (that’s a mouthful for something a couple inches square) atop the RPi 3b+. Some options costing literally 5x the Digi2 Pro make me highly skeptical of the ROI factor beyond ~$50 USD for such accessories.
So @heb1001 hopefully that gets me points for not nixing all relatively inexpensive* options in my playback chain, eh!?
*recall I already had the RPi 3b+ since years ago; I wouldn’t have bought at current price!
The “official” RPi PSU is a little cheap switching wall wart. Never mind, the heck I’d jump into a custom linear supply (saw quickly how those are being touted in a few places online…) for more cash than the actual RPi + hat value. I had at least 2 extra NOS RPi 3 b+ wall warts, so I’d start there.
Tried Volumio for the headless / phone app service first, since it seems to have at least equally proactive support as other, perhaps less mainstream options. And because installation is a breeze. MoOde looked neat, but seemingly no straightforward phone app option and I didn’t want to change lanes there.
Understanding just enough about how digital transports work via S/PDF (maybe) to realize I should not detect difference between the Oppo’s internal transport and the RPi-Digi2 option, I was excited. The Volumio interface on the phone wasn’t ideal for my preferences (I use folders only; I’ve no interest in peekaboo features or pre-organized lists / categories from the app company, etc. ), but was okay.
My wife (a proper long-time concert junkie) was in the room, occupied with other things, when I played a track she’s familiar with on the revamped system’s initial fire-up. She hadn’t paid any mind to my fiddling around with the upstream devices. When the music kicked in (82 dB average) she asked:
“What did you do?”
Not in the good way.
Everything sounded constrained, the whole sonic image had gone “small.” The “wall of sound” was now just another brick in…
The system was literally, for not diving into airy fairy superlatives, different.
Not in the good way.
I switched back to the Oppo’s internal transport and all concern was vanquished (same 82 dB average but, admittedly, not meticulously controlled for). We felt “back at the show” so to speak. Other than the same ol’ constant dropouts and freezes being back. This contrast between two transports of comparable operation standards was surely nonsense. What the heck was going on? Was the coax from hat-to-DAC not warm enough?
I wasn’t able to find online discussions about the issueI was we were perceiving. Only threads about how much difference in character different hats (which are all using the same driver and overall tech) were giving users. Or how superior one form of S/PDF out over another S/PDF out on the same hat was. IOW I wasn’t getting anywhere via threads, other than learning how inventive adverb-appropriation has become among some audiophiles. Sigh.
I went into Volumio’s app settings the next evening, and realized there are at least 2-3 volume-management options enabled by default. In an OS called “VOLUMIO.” The headers for those options have info icons that state enabling may reduce sound quality.
So, egg on my face?
I wondered how many other folks have unwittingly encountered this sound settings issue with Volumio (or any other app that modifies volume settings, subtly and by default), and without getting into the app simply declare the culprit to be an inferior sounding hat, problematic PSU, ineffective interconnects, etc.
I disabled all volume modifications such that full level went to the Oppo DAC (which in turn sends unattenuated signal to the amp).
Same track set to where an 82 dB avg should be, and…
All seemed resolved.
And in a good way.
So whether actual difference or trick of the brain for having seen Volumio’s fine print in seeking remedy, whoknows cares.
In sorting through settings, I also realized Volumio provides 3 different app UI’s, and that the “Classic” option (also not a default setting…) is a superlative version of the Sonica app folder-centric layout I had missed.
These speakers don’t really have baffles.
But I’m really baffled by how far cheap or even free(ware) digital tech has come in permitting excellent-sounding playback of music files.
My turntable has been out of commission for nearly three years. I’ll finally get it spinning again this weekend if much goes according to plan.
It will be the first time an analogue source has played through the present iteration of these speakers.
Holding my breath…
A few weeks ago I finally gave up on the digital transport I’ve used since 2017.
Oppo Digital (California, world-reknown disc players) was ended by the parent company (mostly into phones) in the beginning of 2018.
Their Sonica DAC was a nice $ub-four-fig$ solution for a well-measuring, nice sounding option that fit both headless transport and DAC into one modest chassis.
The Oppo internal transport was managed with the Sonica phone app, slightly buggy from the get-go. Still, using it with a USB bus-powered storage drive gave results I liked when they came through the speakers - the most important thing.
The app was highly problematic within months of the company’s closure, and became so unstable as to not even open on any iOS phone with subsequent software updates and/or other apps installed (I never tried it with Android). Without a dedicated phone, the Sonica app (and thus the transport) was obsolete.
I continued (for years, yikes!) to use the app on a dedicated phone, and grumble my way through constant drop-out, freezes, reboots etc.
Until a few weeks back, when a friend noticed my RetroPie kit. He asked if I’d tried using a RPi as a music server, after he witnessed firsthand my cinema-sized sonic image suddenly going blank - it really challenges one’s sense of enjoyment.
No, I hadn’t tried. So he walked me through all the nifty little DAC-hat options that have come out in the past few years, a couple of which he uses. He was particularly enthusiastic since I had a backup NOS RPi 3b+ on hand (in case my RetroPie board ever failed). Wow - I also hadn’t been aware of what chip shortages had done to availability / cost of RPi 3 / 4 boards nowadays!
Fast-forward to now and I landed on the “HiFiBerry Digi2 Pro v2.2” (that’s a mouthful for something a couple inches square) atop the RPi 3b+. Some options costing literally 5x the Digi2 Pro make me highly skeptical of the ROI factor beyond ~$50 USD for such accessories.
So @heb1001 hopefully that gets me points for not nixing all relatively inexpensive* options in my playback chain, eh!?
*recall I already had the RPi 3b+ since years ago; I wouldn’t have bought at current price!
The “official” RPi PSU is a little cheap switching wall wart. Never mind, the heck I’d jump into a custom linear supply (saw quickly how those are being touted in a few places online…) for more cash than the actual RPi + hat value. I had at least 2 extra NOS RPi 3 b+ wall warts, so I’d start there.
Tried Volumio for the headless / phone app service first, since it seems to have at least equally proactive support as other, perhaps less mainstream options. And because installation is a breeze. MoOde looked neat, but seemingly no straightforward phone app option and I didn’t want to change lanes there.
Understanding just enough about how digital transports work via S/PDF (maybe) to realize I should not detect difference between the Oppo’s internal transport and the RPi-Digi2 option, I was excited. The Volumio interface on the phone wasn’t ideal for my preferences (I use folders only; I’ve no interest in peekaboo features or pre-organized lists / categories from the app company, etc. ), but was okay.
My wife (a proper long-time concert junkie) was in the room, occupied with other things, when I played a track she’s familiar with on the revamped system’s initial fire-up. She hadn’t paid any mind to my fiddling around with the upstream devices. When the music kicked in (82 dB average) she asked:
“What did you do?”
Not in the good way.
Everything sounded constrained, the whole sonic image had gone “small.” The “wall of sound” was now just another brick in…
The system was literally, for not diving into airy fairy superlatives, different.
Not in the good way.
I switched back to the Oppo’s internal transport and all concern was vanquished (same 82 dB average but, admittedly, not meticulously controlled for). We felt “back at the show” so to speak. Other than the same ol’ constant dropouts and freezes being back. This contrast between two transports of comparable operation standards was surely nonsense. What the heck was going on? Was the coax from hat-to-DAC not warm enough?
I wasn’t able to find online discussions about the issue
I went into Volumio’s app settings the next evening, and realized there are at least 2-3 volume-management options enabled by default. In an OS called “VOLUMIO.” The headers for those options have info icons that state enabling may reduce sound quality.
So, egg on my face?
I wondered how many other folks have unwittingly encountered this sound settings issue with Volumio (or any other app that modifies volume settings, subtly and by default), and without getting into the app simply declare the culprit to be an inferior sounding hat, problematic PSU, ineffective interconnects, etc.
I disabled all volume modifications such that full level went to the Oppo DAC (which in turn sends unattenuated signal to the amp).
Same track set to where an 82 dB avg should be, and…
All seemed resolved.
And in a good way.
So whether actual difference or trick of the brain for having seen Volumio’s fine print in seeking remedy, who
In sorting through settings, I also realized Volumio provides 3 different app UI’s, and that the “Classic” option (also not a default setting…) is a superlative version of the Sonica app folder-centric layout I had missed.
These speakers don’t really have baffles.
But I’m really baffled by how far cheap or even free(ware) digital tech has come in permitting excellent-sounding playback of music files.
My turntable has been out of commission for nearly three years. I’ll finally get it spinning again this weekend if much goes according to plan.
It will be the first time an analogue source has played through the present iteration of these speakers.
Holding my breath…
SVS sub feet en route and due for arrival by Monday.
The local distributor kept no stock of parts and required 2+ weeks to get them after being paid via bank transfer (the customer incurring associated fees), at which point I’d need to go to their shop (other side oftown city) for pick-up. Overall cost inflated by 1.5x US price.
So I ordered 2 sets via FedEx from the UK (US won’t ship to HK, I suspect distribution-rights stuff).
All that after silicon options at local hardware stores were, as predicted, insufficient for the purpose at hand.
Only downside will be going through one more weekend with the subs’ original feet in use, ha!
The local distributor kept no stock of parts and required 2+ weeks to get them after being paid via bank transfer (the customer incurring associated fees), at which point I’d need to go to their shop (other side of
So I ordered 2 sets via FedEx from the UK (US won’t ship to HK, I suspect distribution-rights stuff).
All that after silicon options at local hardware stores were, as predicted, insufficient for the purpose at hand.
Only downside will be going through one more weekend with the subs’ original feet in use, ha!
SVS SoundPath sub feet arrived today. Tested with a few movie trailers and I’m simply shocked by the difference I perceive. That’s on-floor against a wall boundary; can’t wait to use the subs in music config (on bench away from concrete boundaries).
And to think, I was only hoping to keep the subs from moshing and hurting themselves with this mod - I expected no difference in sound.
A sincere thank you, @Barry NJ !!!