- An Onken like ? (but you don't like vented 🙂) : http://www.supravox.fr/kits/jensen.pdf (XO:500 Hz, no more input on the low end ?!) : put the B&C 8PE21 between it and the TPL (2500 XO) ?
- The bandpass you talked about : http://www.supravox.fr/kits/400sym.pdf : the front chamber can be improved to have less symetric wall.
I have two bandpass speaker (low efficienty) and I like this load despite what is said about the group delay and the upper behavior of the curve above the XO ! Need a first order electrical with the second mechanical order of the cabinet... 150 Hz max... putt your Beyma driver above, then the tPL at 1600 ?! (instead the 1500 Hz advised by ErikStigg, AngeloItacare, etc)
- Or perfect for a VOTT A5 XOed at 700 Hz, then the 12" Beyma you have already or the 8" B&C 8PE21 ?
I assume if you went for instance to the Melaudia forum than some advised a classic Onken 360 l design ?
How compare the Supravox to the 604 from ALtec, Maybe the littlier cabinet of the Altec can match with some setup ? L'enceinte Nissotté - 4U music ; http://www.greatplainsaudio.com/downloads/604_8H_III.pdf vs http://www.supravox.fr/anglais/haut_parleurs/400_2000.htm
Really two cents, just to bring meat to your reflexion.... Hard choice ! The first one seems the wizer.
cheers
PS : At 40 Hz XO, there is a luck than your room allows a 10 Hz to targett near 30 Hz ?What could say the experienced designer of DIYAUDIO ? (so better a smooth low end à la sealed ?)
PS 2 : at 30° you have near 2K Hz with the Supravox : it matchs the TPLH behavior for a smooth overlapp in the XO : http://www.supravox.fr/anglais/mesures/mes400_20001.htm ?????
- The bandpass you talked about : http://www.supravox.fr/kits/400sym.pdf : the front chamber can be improved to have less symetric wall.
I have two bandpass speaker (low efficienty) and I like this load despite what is said about the group delay and the upper behavior of the curve above the XO ! Need a first order electrical with the second mechanical order of the cabinet... 150 Hz max... putt your Beyma driver above, then the tPL at 1600 ?! (instead the 1500 Hz advised by ErikStigg, AngeloItacare, etc)
- Or perfect for a VOTT A5 XOed at 700 Hz, then the 12" Beyma you have already or the 8" B&C 8PE21 ?
I assume if you went for instance to the Melaudia forum than some advised a classic Onken 360 l design ?
How compare the Supravox to the 604 from ALtec, Maybe the littlier cabinet of the Altec can match with some setup ? L'enceinte Nissotté - 4U music ; http://www.greatplainsaudio.com/downloads/604_8H_III.pdf vs http://www.supravox.fr/anglais/haut_parleurs/400_2000.htm
Really two cents, just to bring meat to your reflexion.... Hard choice ! The first one seems the wizer.
cheers
PS : At 40 Hz XO, there is a luck than your room allows a 10 Hz to targett near 30 Hz ?What could say the experienced designer of DIYAUDIO ? (so better a smooth low end à la sealed ?)
PS 2 : at 30° you have near 2K Hz with the Supravox : it matchs the TPLH behavior for a smooth overlapp in the XO : http://www.supravox.fr/anglais/mesures/mes400_20001.htm ?????
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vinylnvalves,
It's all about using the proper tool for a specific job. You would not use a small open end wrench to remove a wheel of your car even though the wrench fit the lug nut, not when when you have a proper lug wrench in the trunk. You don't have to "baby" your drivers just don't push them--dsp, in this situation in not the answer.
IMHO the Supravox drivers are a more refined version of the Altec drivers. Also remember that the Altec drivers were designed for movie theaters back in the day.
Believe it or not, but you and I are in very close agreement about 15" drivers. I use a pair of Altec 515b's (in parallel) in front loaded 75hz hypex horns. I could have used Fane 8" drivers or several other 10" - 12" drivers but I liked the tone, punch, relaxed way the music is presented with the Altecs, which were available to me at the time. I am sure some of the other drivers have their strong points but I made a choice and it turned out excellent. The horn is 48" deep and the mouth is 32" x 46" and measures flat to 57hz in my room, 108db+ efficiency, and is used from 60hz. to 450hz. I didn't have a lot of money or time to experiment so I chose the Altec's. I have yet to hear better mid bass at any of the USA audio shows (15yrs+)!!! Life is good.
It's all about using the proper tool for a specific job. You would not use a small open end wrench to remove a wheel of your car even though the wrench fit the lug nut, not when when you have a proper lug wrench in the trunk. You don't have to "baby" your drivers just don't push them--dsp, in this situation in not the answer.
IMHO the Supravox drivers are a more refined version of the Altec drivers. Also remember that the Altec drivers were designed for movie theaters back in the day.
Believe it or not, but you and I are in very close agreement about 15" drivers. I use a pair of Altec 515b's (in parallel) in front loaded 75hz hypex horns. I could have used Fane 8" drivers or several other 10" - 12" drivers but I liked the tone, punch, relaxed way the music is presented with the Altecs, which were available to me at the time. I am sure some of the other drivers have their strong points but I made a choice and it turned out excellent. The horn is 48" deep and the mouth is 32" x 46" and measures flat to 57hz in my room, 108db+ efficiency, and is used from 60hz. to 450hz. I didn't have a lot of money or time to experiment so I chose the Altec's. I have yet to hear better mid bass at any of the USA audio shows (15yrs+)!!! Life is good.
But not to forget, back in the day there weren't any of these crash-boom-bang-earthquake sounds in the cinema. Modern movies use these a lot and they are a real problem for drivers with the wrong (for this) parameters.
You'd rather use an old K5 4x4 for offroading than a Crown Vic, wouldn't you? "It got a 5l engine, it MUST be great offroad". You can tune the engine but that doesn't give it 4x4 or more ground clearance. Sure, you can heavily modify the Crown Vic but to get it offroad ready, you have to modify it in a way it doesn't have much in common with the original car. It's the same with the Supravox, if you'd want it to modify for your needs (higher Mms, much higher vc winding, different surroundings and spider, losing a LOT of efficiency etc.), you'd be better (and cheaper) off just buying something else.
Just to make it clear: I'm not against the Supravox but you have to use it right to get the merits of it. I know how hard it can be if you realize your dream isn't comming true but you have to change your expectance or the parts (read: sell it and buy something fit).
ICG.
Absolutely right. Hence my comment " back in the day". Most of the older Altec designs would not survive today's digital sound effects and multi thousands of watts power amplifiers. When the theaters were filled with Altec speakers many were using tube amplifiers or lower powered solid state amplifiers. A fairly new multiplex theater near me uses multiples of JBL's large pro speaker / sub woofer systems and several Crown I-tech HD amplifiers.
Absolutely right. Hence my comment " back in the day". Most of the older Altec designs would not survive today's digital sound effects and multi thousands of watts power amplifiers. When the theaters were filled with Altec speakers many were using tube amplifiers or lower powered solid state amplifiers. A fairly new multiplex theater near me uses multiples of JBL's large pro speaker / sub woofer systems and several Crown I-tech HD amplifiers.
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