Measure closer to 92 dB, i am not a big fan of whizzer cones, but if you have one you need a phase plug, Mms measures 12 grams. Neo has its advantages, but these are done the cheap way, and neo has the habit of degrading if it gets too hot. Execution is important.
The actual measured sensitivity is a tiny bit higher than that and field reports have Alpairs being happily used with amps smaller than that suggests -- how much power do you have? Plastic frame is an advantage, it is a smaller driver so you expect smaller BL -- what BL is is only important in light of how it plays out in the driver performance. Ferrite magnet gives more long term stability and lower price. If the magnetic circuit is doneright it has no downside except the larger area at the back of the driver.
Marginally more efficiency, plastic frame is a plus, a larger cone typically sacrifices mid/top performance. The Alpair is not burdened by a whizzer cone.
The TB is a good driver, it is very smooth, but it lacks DDR (low level detail) compared to the Alpairs. That last is what puts meat on the bones of a voice, the subtle details that an instrument has, the important information that gives a superb image/soundstage (if on the recording). I don't know about you but that is very important to me.
Lack of DDR will find you playing them louder to try to get that missing detail.
The Alpair won't move as much air, but will get you close to the same bass extention in the right enclosure.
One of the problems with the Alpairs is that Mark has decided to price them low which puts them within the reach of more people, but has the disadvantage that they get less respect from those that use price to measure a driver's quality.
I don't know about the TB but the MA can be had from Darcher in Tas saving a lot of shipping.
Mark Audio Alpair 10P - EACH
Mark Audio Alpair 10 Gen 3 - Gold - EACH
If you want to spend the money, and the shipping $340 will buy you a matched pair of tweaked A10s with even more DDR (and pair matched).
dave
Despite having a frame size similar to an 8" it is actually a 6.5" driver. As large as Mark could go, and still get the top end he needed. BTW, i am one of those that prefer the A10s over the A12.
dave
Oh right. I missed that.
Though considering other specs, the Alpair 12 and the W8 are remarkably similar.
That said, for a 6.5 inch the Alpair 12 is pretty much a true full range.
Though considering other specs, the Alpair 12 and the W8 are remarkably similar.
That said, for a 6.5 inch the Alpair 12 is pretty much a true full range.
Hi Planet 10
Thanks for the information. I don't like whizzer cones either. Money isn't as big a consideration as making the right choice in the first place as this saves REAL money. Considering the speaker, cabinet and amp as a singular sybiotic organism what combination of cabinet and amp of the valve SET variety would you combine for optimum overall performance with the Alpair 10P?
Cheers Mark
Thanks for the information. I don't like whizzer cones either. Money isn't as big a consideration as making the right choice in the first place as this saves REAL money. Considering the speaker, cabinet and amp as a singular sybiotic organism what combination of cabinet and amp of the valve SET variety would you combine for optimum overall performance with the Alpair 10P?
Cheers Mark
2A3 SE is my favourite, you could get away with that if your room isn't too large, and you don't play too loud. 300B SEs i have heard are far to often too "syrupy" but i bet good ones exist and that could close to triple the power. Next level down (price & performance and easier to build) are pentodes, triode strapped or not. Execution is important, and some will exceed the performance of some of the true triodes (good execution vrs not so good). 211 or 845 are more expensive, i have little experience with them. A good cheap SE amp are RH84 derivatives.
Unless you end up with a big power SE the A10p makes the most sense. The best we have heard it is n the Frugel-Horn XL. If the foot print of that is too big then the Pensil (about the same volume but a more efficient shape volume-wise). These will both maximize bass. At the sacrifice of bass there are even more compact boxes mainly stand-mounts.
dave
Unless you end up with a big power SE the A10p makes the most sense. The best we have heard it is n the Frugel-Horn XL. If the foot print of that is too big then the Pensil (about the same volume but a more efficient shape volume-wise). These will both maximize bass. At the sacrifice of bass there are even more compact boxes mainly stand-mounts.
dave
1/4 A10p isn't enuff to make an array.
2/ the C-C distance attainable is such that the array, if tall snuff, would not be very extended on the top.
So no, no-one has. At least that i know of.
dave
2/ the C-C distance attainable is such that the array, if tall snuff, would not be very extended on the top.
So no, no-one has. At least that i know of.
dave
Cheers all
All good news apparently. Less money locally available and the 14 watts of my triode connected CV40/60 tubed amp with variable feedback will tie me over until I DIY my own true SE triode 6AS7G first and 2A3 later if I like it.
Thanks Dave exactly what you describe about low level detail is what seemed MIA somewhat with the TB W5 1611.
Glad circumstances went my way and was able to extensively listen without purchase. Good driver. Close but no Cigar
Cheers Mark
All good news apparently. Less money locally available and the 14 watts of my triode connected CV40/60 tubed amp with variable feedback will tie me over until I DIY my own true SE triode 6AS7G first and 2A3 later if I like it.
Thanks Dave exactly what you describe about low level detail is what seemed MIA somewhat with the TB W5 1611.
Glad circumstances went my way and was able to extensively listen without purchase. Good driver. Close but no Cigar
Cheers Mark
I had a pair of w5-1611saf around, so I put them into ikea bookshelf and took some measurements. I can post it if someone is interested. They would make nice midrange. While they have elevated heights on axis, they beam terribly of axis.
It starts severely beaming at ~3kHz. It sounds little boring, because signal with high fr information is only narrow beam. Signals off axis are lean in this information. Reflected signal therefore will be with less heights. Perception of luck of detail is likely the result. Otherwise its a great midrange. Flat, uniform, low distortion.
So I added the tweeter...this is how it measures now. Much better. More importantly, pseudo-coax combo now sounds great. Perhaps too sparkly, but that is way better than boring. Now it has relative uniform of axis response, it paints the room with uniform peasant sound. Highly recommended.
Attachments
Thanks for the measuring, it's a magical driver like Coral Flat 5 II, and when I'm listening I'm not sitting off axis, so I can't say that the driver is boring lol
btw try to elevate the tweeter off center, maybe it will sound better
btw try to elevate the tweeter off center, maybe it will sound better
Glad that you like it as it is. Good for you. Constant directionality or at least controlled directionality is important to me. I perceive speaker with abrupt change in directionality as partly flawed.
Off center? Does not concentric mean in the center? 🙂
Off center? Does not concentric mean in the center? 🙂
sorry to bring up a dead thread but I've got these in the Frugel-Horn Mk3 and am almost pleased with the sound
like you already noticed, they are missing a lot up top. I'm going to give a rear tweeter a try and see how they measure.
also, did you see the need for a contour network on the w5?
like you already noticed, they are missing a lot up top. I'm going to give a rear tweeter a try and see how they measure.
also, did you see the need for a contour network on the w5?
Try it and see. Being rear firinf a lot will depend on what it is firing into. Upfiring may also be an option.
dave
dave
yep, i'm going to piano hinge the mount so i can adjust angle. parts are on the way
should be fun experiment
should be fun experiment