Greetings!
I picked up a Sheng Ya CD-S10 several months ago from a friend. This Chinese built CDP has a very decent sound. Many owners of the Sheng Ya CD-S10 have lauded their positive impressions of this player on a number of Forums reviews. This player has two tubes one 6DJ8 in the output stage and a 12AU7 in the power supply for voltage regulation. I have also heard that the 12AU7 is nothing more than a “show and glow” inside the circular window in the front of the player. I’ve rolled a number of tubes through this player’s with some improvements and some affect on the overall sound quality. Anyways, I’m considering performing some mods and upgrades to this unit. I did some research on this Forum and found very little on this specific player. I’d like to reduce the noise floor of this player for a blacker, quieter sound. I’m also looking to get more detail and clarity but without any harshness. The sound of the player is a little laid back. I would like to bring the sound a little more forward while expanding the soundstage. I’m looking for some ideas and opinions.
I have tried unsuccessfully to get a schematic of this unit. This gray market product has no distributor in the USA so support is all but non-existent. My initial plans are to replace the Raltron clock (Model CO-72E-T, 16.9344 MHz) with a better clock with a separate PS for the new clock. A picture of the board with the clock is shown in the first photo.
Additionally, I would like to change out some of the opamps. The second photo has numerical designations of the player’s opamps. Opamps labeled 1 & 2 are BB OPA2604’s. Opamps 3 & 4 are NE5532’s, and opamp 5 is a BB OPA2134. I’m not sure what function all of these opamps provide? I don’t want to needlessly replace any opamp that won’t serve my overall objective
Last of all I was considering replacing some capacitors in the output signal path and potentially in the power supply. The 3rd and 4th photos show the PC board for signal processing and the power transformer. The picture of the entire board shows most of the player’s functions HDCD and line stage pre-amplification ability.
Your perspective and ideas are very much appreciated.
I picked up a Sheng Ya CD-S10 several months ago from a friend. This Chinese built CDP has a very decent sound. Many owners of the Sheng Ya CD-S10 have lauded their positive impressions of this player on a number of Forums reviews. This player has two tubes one 6DJ8 in the output stage and a 12AU7 in the power supply for voltage regulation. I have also heard that the 12AU7 is nothing more than a “show and glow” inside the circular window in the front of the player. I’ve rolled a number of tubes through this player’s with some improvements and some affect on the overall sound quality. Anyways, I’m considering performing some mods and upgrades to this unit. I did some research on this Forum and found very little on this specific player. I’d like to reduce the noise floor of this player for a blacker, quieter sound. I’m also looking to get more detail and clarity but without any harshness. The sound of the player is a little laid back. I would like to bring the sound a little more forward while expanding the soundstage. I’m looking for some ideas and opinions.
I have tried unsuccessfully to get a schematic of this unit. This gray market product has no distributor in the USA so support is all but non-existent. My initial plans are to replace the Raltron clock (Model CO-72E-T, 16.9344 MHz) with a better clock with a separate PS for the new clock. A picture of the board with the clock is shown in the first photo.
Additionally, I would like to change out some of the opamps. The second photo has numerical designations of the player’s opamps. Opamps labeled 1 & 2 are BB OPA2604’s. Opamps 3 & 4 are NE5532’s, and opamp 5 is a BB OPA2134. I’m not sure what function all of these opamps provide? I don’t want to needlessly replace any opamp that won’t serve my overall objective
Last of all I was considering replacing some capacitors in the output signal path and potentially in the power supply. The 3rd and 4th photos show the PC board for signal processing and the power transformer. The picture of the entire board shows most of the player’s functions HDCD and line stage pre-amplification ability.
Your perspective and ideas are very much appreciated.
Attachments
If you can take a pic of the opamps and output section this could help......
reclocking is good but do that last ! squeeze what you can out of the existing parts and then be blown away with the reclocking ....!
first find the dc blocking cap in the output...this will be the last cap normally an electrolytic following the last opamp......replace with stacked [parallelled] film caps ....say 10 x 1uf wimas 63v per channel.
Alternatively fit using flying leads a big paper in oil caps say 10uf 200v you can pick these up of ebay .. most are ex soviet military ...the ones I've got sound sublime liquid, fast, clean makes you realise how much the fitted caps are actually destroying the sound.
if you fit good sockets at the same time these caps can be wired straight to the output ...but you will need a resistor from signal to earth for each chanel ....try a dale vishay rn55 50 k- 100k a lot depends on what the preamp wants to see ...so you have plenty of wiggle room.
reclocking is good but do that last ! squeeze what you can out of the existing parts and then be blown away with the reclocking ....!
first find the dc blocking cap in the output...this will be the last cap normally an electrolytic following the last opamp......replace with stacked [parallelled] film caps ....say 10 x 1uf wimas 63v per channel.
Alternatively fit using flying leads a big paper in oil caps say 10uf 200v you can pick these up of ebay .. most are ex soviet military ...the ones I've got sound sublime liquid, fast, clean makes you realise how much the fitted caps are actually destroying the sound.
if you fit good sockets at the same time these caps can be wired straight to the output ...but you will need a resistor from signal to earth for each chanel ....try a dale vishay rn55 50 k- 100k a lot depends on what the preamp wants to see ...so you have plenty of wiggle room.
One of the top right hand corner would be useful too
As far as is possible from the pic .....
it appears that its relay muted which is good ...the single valve is in the last thing in the output.
there are sets of opamps ..but its impossible to see types
the front valve ......is it like my headphone amp in that its just for decoration ?
As far as is possible from the pic .....
it appears that its relay muted which is good ...the single valve is in the last thing in the output.
there are sets of opamps ..but its impossible to see types
the front valve ......is it like my headphone amp in that its just for decoration ?
Thanks for your reply Zanash! Attached is a photo of the board with the opamps numbered. This photo offers the best picture of the output stage and shows the entire top right hand side of the board. Opamps labeled 1 & 2 are BB OPA2604’s. Opamps 3 & 4 are NE5532’s, and opamp 5 is a BB OPA2134. I’m not sure what function all of these opamps provide? The 2604's appear to be the last opamps in line prior to the output caps and tube. Note that the output caps are film type caps. They are labeled 4/7 uF, but the designated value on the PCB shows them as 5.1 uF.
I've been told the tube in the front of the player is used for voltage regulation. I could very well be just for "show and glow". I have not removed the PC board to try and trace it's function.
This player is supposed to be identical to Kavent CD-731 and the Vincent CD-6 (I think??). All of the players are manufactured by Sheng Ya in China. Thanks again for your suggestions.
I've been told the tube in the front of the player is used for voltage regulation. I could very well be just for "show and glow". I have not removed the PC board to try and trace it's function.
This player is supposed to be identical to Kavent CD-731 and the Vincent CD-6 (I think??). All of the players are manufactured by Sheng Ya in China. Thanks again for your suggestions.
Attachments
the opamps will buffer filter and add gain/buffer
for me the obvious possition to change would be the last opamp before the valve stage.
fit good sockets so its easy to swap them in the future.
As to what to swap to thats difficult ....I've just fitted some opa2227 that are making interesting noises and may go well feeding the valve
what are the two transistors doing next to the valve ? is one leg attached to the signal and the other to ground ?
you'll need a dmm to test ....
all the resistors look like cheap metal films ......those that arearound the opamps could be swapped for dale vishays for a worthwile improvment.
Are the two 4.7uf in the signal path ? [they ought to be ]
these are good but theres no harm swapping thes for more exotic types
for me the obvious possition to change would be the last opamp before the valve stage.
fit good sockets so its easy to swap them in the future.
As to what to swap to thats difficult ....I've just fitted some opa2227 that are making interesting noises and may go well feeding the valve
what are the two transistors doing next to the valve ? is one leg attached to the signal and the other to ground ?
you'll need a dmm to test ....
all the resistors look like cheap metal films ......those that arearound the opamps could be swapped for dale vishays for a worthwile improvment.
Are the two 4.7uf in the signal path ? [they ought to be ]
these are good but theres no harm swapping thes for more exotic types
Hi,
I am also a pround of a China made tube CDP ( ref consonance 2.2 ). I've done some parts upgrades too. The biggest improvement that i've got was the replacement of the film cap at the tube stage. I replaced it with Mundorf Supreme cap .. i've got friends used Mundorf Silver in Oil with outstanding results. The 5.1uf and 4.7uf should not be a issue not unless you replace it double the value for any audible difference. Basically, the higher the value .. the bigger/bolder would be your bass but it would be a bit slower.
Replace the OPA2604 by LM4562 .. it is from National semiconductor and they have sample program . See this
LM4562 thread . I've also replace the opamp bypass caps with 0.1uf BlackGate NX HQ. Aslso replaced the caps around the opamp with Silvered Mica and the resistors with Riken resistors.
Replace the clock with a better one with external PSU ... the
Flea is a very good and cheap alternative.
Replace the PSU filter caps with low ESRs like Rubycon ZLs/ZA or Panasonic FCs. The rectifier diodes with 11DQ10 schottky . These upgrades will lower down the noise floor and you will hear better details and clarilty. The cheap Voltage regs were replaced with LT317/337 and LT323 . You can also use this Voltage Reg Module
I also replaced the caps at the transport with OSCON SP series and the IC bypass caps with BG NX HQ.
By the way .. you can use Photobucket.com to upload your pictures for bigger/higher resolution pictures.
Good luck
I am also a pround of a China made tube CDP ( ref consonance 2.2 ). I've done some parts upgrades too. The biggest improvement that i've got was the replacement of the film cap at the tube stage. I replaced it with Mundorf Supreme cap .. i've got friends used Mundorf Silver in Oil with outstanding results. The 5.1uf and 4.7uf should not be a issue not unless you replace it double the value for any audible difference. Basically, the higher the value .. the bigger/bolder would be your bass but it would be a bit slower.
Replace the OPA2604 by LM4562 .. it is from National semiconductor and they have sample program . See this
LM4562 thread . I've also replace the opamp bypass caps with 0.1uf BlackGate NX HQ. Aslso replaced the caps around the opamp with Silvered Mica and the resistors with Riken resistors.
Replace the clock with a better one with external PSU ... the
Flea is a very good and cheap alternative.
Replace the PSU filter caps with low ESRs like Rubycon ZLs/ZA or Panasonic FCs. The rectifier diodes with 11DQ10 schottky . These upgrades will lower down the noise floor and you will hear better details and clarilty. The cheap Voltage regs were replaced with LT317/337 and LT323 . You can also use this Voltage Reg Module
I also replaced the caps at the transport with OSCON SP series and the IC bypass caps with BG NX HQ.
By the way .. you can use Photobucket.com to upload your pictures for bigger/higher resolution pictures.
Good luck
Nice player .....
did you listen to the nos version ?
Yes I've been attacking the output caps in my cdp and preamp .with odd results ...
As you say more uf should add bass etc..... but on one unit swapping out 100uf bipolars with 10uf 160v pio's as given loads more bass a clean fast top and a liquidity to the music to die for.
Have you thought about decoupling the supply rails with 10uf tants ...as well as the normal decoupling [its not my idea] this seems to work well on a couple of cdp I've tried it on.
Of cpourse getting good sounding valves will work to ...if not already fitted ..I've not been overly impressed with chinese stock units.
did you listen to the nos version ?
Yes I've been attacking the output caps in my cdp and preamp .with odd results ...
As you say more uf should add bass etc..... but on one unit swapping out 100uf bipolars with 10uf 160v pio's as given loads more bass a clean fast top and a liquidity to the music to die for.
Have you thought about decoupling the supply rails with 10uf tants ...as well as the normal decoupling [its not my idea] this seems to work well on a couple of cdp I've tried it on.
Of cpourse getting good sounding valves will work to ...if not already fitted ..I've not been overly impressed with chinese stock units.
Thanks for the info and recommendations Audioboy69! I do have some LM4562 samples on the way to me. Based on what I've learned from research on this Forum, the last opamps in my signal path are the OPA2604's. See pic:
Based on your reply, you are also recommending changing the resistors next to these opamps?
Thanks for your recommendation on the Mundorf silver/oil caps. These are VERY pricey!! I was considering Soncap capacitors as they are used in a lot of audio preamp applications.
I still not sure which PS caps to replace. Here's a bigger pic of my board:
Thanks for the recommendation on photobucket!😉
Based on your reply, you are also recommending changing the resistors next to these opamps?
Thanks for your recommendation on the Mundorf silver/oil caps. These are VERY pricey!! I was considering Soncap capacitors as they are used in a lot of audio preamp applications.
I still not sure which PS caps to replace. Here's a bigger pic of my board:
Thanks for the recommendation on photobucket!😉
Get a load of 0.1uf 63v wima kilm caps .....and bypass all the electrolytics ....
Try some paper in oil caps these are very good and relatively cheap off ebay .
as to which psu caps ...do all of them if you can ...if you can't ..start with the digital psu and then the analogue psu etc.
Try some paper in oil caps these are very good and relatively cheap off ebay .
as to which psu caps ...do all of them if you can ...if you can't ..start with the digital psu and then the analogue psu etc.
zanash said:
Zanash,
The Ref 2.2 is really a nice and good sounding player ( to my ears 🙂 ).
What NOS version are you refering to ? Is is the "Auricap version " ? I was able to it at the dealers showroom. Mine was still the very old version .. still using the AEON caps at the tube output. The Mundorfed ref 2.2 was far better than the Auricap interms of refinement .. fullbodied bass , smooth mids and extended highs . I've also used Mundorf caps in my Speaker Xover with good results.
I've actually looked at the data sheets of the voltage regs installed in the Ref 2.2 and really recommends Tantalum caps for stability and better ripple rejections. Will open again my player and see how i can do the improvements... thanks for pointing on that !!
How about Black Gates , do you have experience on them as filter caps or caps just after the voltage regs. Planning to replace the Rubycon YXA with BG STD .
Cheers ...
Carl ,
You are welcome !!
If you can trace the resistors on the opamp .. it is worthwhile to replace specially if it is on the signal path. For my Ref 2.2 , it has 6 resistors around the opamp per channel ..so i replaced them all 😀 I've read other moders use Welwyn 0.1% tolerance is a very good choice ... planning to use these resistors around the DAC .
The Mundorf are very pricey indeed . You can use Vishay Roederstein MKP1837 to bypass the 4.7uf . Check out this
Capacitor Test for reference.
What DAC chip does your player use?. Looking at the picture .. it seems that the BIG IC is the microcontroller , not the DAC. I also see a 2 pin Crystal at the bottom right. Strange , most CDPs that i've open have the DAC installed close to the opamp and usually are SMDs mounted at the back of the PCB. Maybe you check this out to confirm.
Have fun !
You are welcome !!
If you can trace the resistors on the opamp .. it is worthwhile to replace specially if it is on the signal path. For my Ref 2.2 , it has 6 resistors around the opamp per channel ..so i replaced them all 😀 I've read other moders use Welwyn 0.1% tolerance is a very good choice ... planning to use these resistors around the DAC .
The Mundorf are very pricey indeed . You can use Vishay Roederstein MKP1837 to bypass the 4.7uf . Check out this
Capacitor Test for reference.
What DAC chip does your player use?. Looking at the picture .. it seems that the BIG IC is the microcontroller , not the DAC. I also see a 2 pin Crystal at the bottom right. Strange , most CDPs that i've open have the DAC installed close to the opamp and usually are SMDs mounted at the back of the PCB. Maybe you check this out to confirm.
Have fun !
Thanks for the post Audioboy69! The capacitor review site was very interesting. From what I read about these tests was that they were performed in speaker crossover networks. I'm interested to know how this test relates to the output caps in a CDP? I'm not trying to be flip, I just would like to learn more. Are you suggesting that I bypass the 4.7 cap? If so with what value?
Thanks for pointing out the little 12 MHz 2 pin crystal. I did not see that previously. I wonder what that is for?
The frustrating part of these Chinese players is that getting schematics is almost impossible. I've emailed Sheng Ya with no response. I can get a service manual or schematic from most major brands for a small fee. But not from Sheng Ya.
The Sheng Ya has a PCM 1732 DAC. It's probably mounted on the reverse side of the PCB as you described. Check out this pic:
I read a little of the link you provided about the "Flea" clock. Are these strictly DIY or are they manufactured by someone?
Thanks for your info! I appreciate it!
Carl
Thanks for pointing out the little 12 MHz 2 pin crystal. I did not see that previously. I wonder what that is for?
The frustrating part of these Chinese players is that getting schematics is almost impossible. I've emailed Sheng Ya with no response. I can get a service manual or schematic from most major brands for a small fee. But not from Sheng Ya.
The Sheng Ya has a PCM 1732 DAC. It's probably mounted on the reverse side of the PCB as you described. Check out this pic:
I read a little of the link you provided about the "Flea" clock. Are these strictly DIY or are they manufactured by someone?
Thanks for your info! I appreciate it!
Carl
Carl,
Yup . the capacitor test was done on speaker Xover .. just to give you an idea on on how these caps sounds. But for my experience , i've used Mudorf in my CDP, Speaker Xover and coupling cap in my Tube amp with great success.
As for the Vishay Roederstein MKP1837 , just a small value of 0.0uf will do ... cheap and effective tweak. This method is also being used in the Cayin CDT17 tube CDP . Wima caps bypassed by a good film cap.
Fo Chinese products .. once it's yours .. it's yours , specially if you mod it 😎
As for the PCM 1732 DAC ... just check on the data sheet and trace the XTI/XTO pin .. this is where the Crystal oscillator output if connected. The 12 MHz 2 pin crystal is for the MicroController . The 16.9344Mhz is probably the one feeding your PCM1732., so this is the one that you would like to change .
You can get the Flea XO PCB for £3.50 including shipping from Martin Clark . Buy the parts including the Tent labs XO and Do it Yourself . 😎 It is pretty cheap compared to the LC Audio or Audiocom clocks.
Cheers,
Yup . the capacitor test was done on speaker Xover .. just to give you an idea on on how these caps sounds. But for my experience , i've used Mudorf in my CDP, Speaker Xover and coupling cap in my Tube amp with great success.
As for the Vishay Roederstein MKP1837 , just a small value of 0.0uf will do ... cheap and effective tweak. This method is also being used in the Cayin CDT17 tube CDP . Wima caps bypassed by a good film cap.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Fo Chinese products .. once it's yours .. it's yours , specially if you mod it 😎
As for the PCM 1732 DAC ... just check on the data sheet and trace the XTI/XTO pin .. this is where the Crystal oscillator output if connected. The 12 MHz 2 pin crystal is for the MicroController . The 16.9344Mhz is probably the one feeding your PCM1732., so this is the one that you would like to change .
You can get the Flea XO PCB for £3.50 including shipping from Martin Clark . Buy the parts including the Tent labs XO and Do it Yourself . 😎 It is pretty cheap compared to the LC Audio or Audiocom clocks.
Cheers,
I have acquired a Shengya CD-02. It's a nice and strong cd player. Play any cd, I say any. I gues is sinal of good laser pickup (Sony)? I just switched the chinese tube for a russian 6n2p and I'm checking the new smooth sound.
I know this thread is old...Anybody out there? I would like get some nice informations about my unit. It's so hard get any one.
I know this thread is old...Anybody out there? I would like get some nice informations about my unit. It's so hard get any one.
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