Thanks StigErik and others who have made suggestions. That's really impressive with your subs. I think I'll go back to just bigger Maggie's without subs. I'm a retired classical musician and just find subs with maggies unnatural. Go to a symphony orchestra concert or chamber music recital and you'll know what I mean. Bass drum or lower tymps don't happen much! I was chasing stereo subs for ambiance but I think the trade-off of an unnatural level of bass too much of a compromise.
Just as a post script, so to speak, I'm in Australia and you can pay double what you pay for (US made gear) in the States.
Just as a post script, so to speak, I'm in Australia and you can pay double what you pay for (US made gear) in the States.
I recently listened to a pair of LRS+, and was left a bit cold by their tonal balance - weak midbass, no real bass, quite forward in the midrange (1-1,5k) and top treble (10 k). However, it sounded like there was great potential with some EQ and a proper bass system.
Yesterday I assisted in setting up a somewhat odd bass solution for those LRS+ speakers - a 15" Eminence Alpha in OB and a 12" ScanSpeak in bass-reflex as subwoofer. We used a MiniDsp 2x4 HD and a Crown amp with DSP to do XO and EQ. It was quite easy to tie it all together. XO points 250 and 45 Hz. And what difference it all made! I'd have to say that the LRS+ with this bass system is one of the best speaker systems I've ever heard. 🙂
Yesterday I assisted in setting up a somewhat odd bass solution for those LRS+ speakers - a 15" Eminence Alpha in OB and a 12" ScanSpeak in bass-reflex as subwoofer. We used a MiniDsp 2x4 HD and a Crown amp with DSP to do XO and EQ. It was quite easy to tie it all together. XO points 250 and 45 Hz. And what difference it all made! I'd have to say that the LRS+ with this bass system is one of the best speaker systems I've ever heard. 🙂
The LRS+ is unlistenable in stock form without either a large tweeter resistor or some serious equalization to tame the forward midrange and top end. I use a full -6db first-order shelf and that brings the tonal balance to right on the money.
Adding a woofer of some form has always been mandatory if expecting the system to have some real bass. A dipole woofer scheme is the best match and can be easily integrated for the bottom two octaves or so. Currently, I use my Phoenix setup with a crossover at 80Hz. Excellent.
Dave.
Adding a woofer of some form has always been mandatory if expecting the system to have some real bass. A dipole woofer scheme is the best match and can be easily integrated for the bottom two octaves or so. Currently, I use my Phoenix setup with a crossover at 80Hz. Excellent.
Dave.
The magazines are part of the marketing arm of the industry. Objectiveness pretty much left the building many years ago. 🙂
Dave.
Dave.
The LRS (MMG) has always been an introductory model... a way to get people to buy bigger Maggies. 😉
Ed
Ed
The problem is they have too much potential to really be loss-leaders in that way.
Many folks are pretty satisfied with them and don't really get the hankering to spend the money to upgrade. Or, they decide to spend their money to mate subwoofers with them. 🙂
Dave.
Many folks are pretty satisfied with them and don't really get the hankering to spend the money to upgrade. Or, they decide to spend their money to mate subwoofers with them. 🙂
Dave.
Erik, have you measured every low speaker, and do you know that every speaker does not have the same value, you get a time difference in the low, but an impressive sound?
regards Wollie
regards Wollie
Sorry,my English is not so good,my question is,Erik, have you measured every low speaker, and do you know that every speaker does not have the same value, you get a time difference in the low, but an impressive sound?
wollie
wollie
Yes, of course everything was measured, and appropriate EQ and delay applied to all speakers in the system.
Below a pic of the actual setup. As you can see, the maggies are located far into the room, and delayed 4 ms relative to the woofers.
The woofers are 15" Eminence Alpha that used to be part of a dipole speaker, and its Visaton B200 fullrange is still there above the woofer. The passive XO is of course removed, so the woofer is connected directly to its amp. The subs are ScanSpeak 26W/4558T00 in bass-refleks boxes. It looks like DIY, and it is..... stuff like this warms my heart 🙂 And it sounds absolutely amazing!
The room is very well tuned with absorption. The decay is quite short over the entire frequency range, even in the the low bass.
Amps:
Parasound (might be A21, not sure) for the maggies
DIY ICEpower 1000ASP for the woofers
Crown XLS 1502 for the subwoofers
DSP:
For the maggies and woofers - MiniDSP 2x4 HD
For the subs - in the Crown power amp
Below a pic of the actual setup. As you can see, the maggies are located far into the room, and delayed 4 ms relative to the woofers.
The woofers are 15" Eminence Alpha that used to be part of a dipole speaker, and its Visaton B200 fullrange is still there above the woofer. The passive XO is of course removed, so the woofer is connected directly to its amp. The subs are ScanSpeak 26W/4558T00 in bass-refleks boxes. It looks like DIY, and it is..... stuff like this warms my heart 🙂 And it sounds absolutely amazing!
The room is very well tuned with absorption. The decay is quite short over the entire frequency range, even in the the low bass.
Amps:
Parasound (might be A21, not sure) for the maggies
DIY ICEpower 1000ASP for the woofers
Crown XLS 1502 for the subwoofers
DSP:
For the maggies and woofers - MiniDSP 2x4 HD
For the subs - in the Crown power amp
It will sound impressive, with different brands of woofer, the low membrane is not original compared to the Magnapan membrane, material difference, so coloring.
regards Wollie
regards Wollie
I too love the diy charm. Especially when all cylinders are firing and the system sounds something like how you described.
This young thread already shows how varied peoples tastes are when it comes to subs.
FWIT I'm using the xo's in my late Crown XLS 1002s, the current available model with upgraded xo. I find they work pretty well with my multiple closed boxes (also mismatched sizes 8" and 10").
Only trouble is my domestic preamp deprives the Crowns of line in voltage needs. So I need a good sounding way around it to meet requirements if you have any to share.
Great looking room & setup BTW.
The Magnepan LRS has no bass, so there is nothing we can compare against.
Bass has always been the weakest point of any Magnepan. I've measured quite a few if them. Their bass performance is not good, with a lot of distortion, so they will colour the bass and low mid a lot more than a good quality woofer system.
Erik I have a number of different amplifiers and different speaker cables, we are not talking about the rest of the installation yet, it is in combination with .
And where do you listen to avant-garde or concrete rock, then you talk about two different amplifiers for the maggies.
It's like a medal, a front and a back, advantage or disadvantage, search, search and you will find it.😀
Just buy several amplifiers and several speaker cables, then you will be short of ears.
I have several Magnapans from Smg to Mg2B
And don't look for the easiest way 😡, hifi is top sport.
Regards Willie
And where do you listen to avant-garde or concrete rock, then you talk about two different amplifiers for the maggies.
It's like a medal, a front and a back, advantage or disadvantage, search, search and you will find it.😀
Just buy several amplifiers and several speaker cables, then you will be short of ears.
I have several Magnapans from Smg to Mg2B
And don't look for the easiest way 😡, hifi is top sport.
Regards Willie
See another problem in the LRS, the tweeter is way too wide. Looks like 3-4 cm. So no bass, bad dispersion. Would be nice if they made a version with out the tweeter. Then we would have a cheap planar midrange too play with .
That's a different topic....and all Magnepan's have an inherently complicated polar response. 🙂
But, you're free to use just the mid-bass portion of the LRS. Or, you can switch to the 1.7 which has a much narrower top-tweeter.
Dave.
But, you're free to use just the mid-bass portion of the LRS. Or, you can switch to the 1.7 which has a much narrower top-tweeter.
Dave.
Dont know if its off topic. Might make a planar tweeter for one when they get on the used marked. Could be fun.
They've been on the used market. And the MMG's have been for many years previously. 🙂
Start having some fun.
I gather your point is that there are numerous reasons the design of Magnepan speakers have shortcomings.....objectively. You would be correct.
But collectively, they work/sound better than a person might think looking at the design. It's one of those confounding products in the audio world. 🙂
Dave.
Start having some fun.
I gather your point is that there are numerous reasons the design of Magnepan speakers have shortcomings.....objectively. You would be correct.
But collectively, they work/sound better than a person might think looking at the design. It's one of those confounding products in the audio world. 🙂
Dave.
Which speaker besides Magnapan has no shortcomings 😀😀. For me there are no bad speakers, don't matter, cone closed or bass reflex, open bafle, electrostats, Magnapan 😀😀and Horn speakers, put the right equipment in the right configuration, with the speakers then it climbs top. But, there is a lot of work that goes into it, that's why I say, hi-fi is top sport. And everyone hears differently, and then the listening brain, of U, where do you sit in the room, in front of the room or in the middle of the room or at three quarters in the room, you get three completely different sound experience. And that's not to mention places somewhere else in the room.
Each speaker fills in the sound differently.
Regards Wollie
Each speaker fills in the sound differently.
Regards Wollie