OK, another day. Light and stiff is out now, apparently. 🤣
@planet10 The thing about forums is that it doesn't matter how much you know (or think you know) about the matter in hand, you also need to know how to behave. If you can't treat others with respect, youre not helping. You're actually spoiling the forum for others.
@planet10 The thing about forums is that it doesn't matter how much you know (or think you know) about the matter in hand, you also need to know how to behave. If you can't treat others with respect, youre not helping. You're actually spoiling the forum for others.
I hear this, it works well. No crossover and for small environments.
https://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/trent.html
https://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/trent.html
That is certainly a challenge with forums; different opinions (of course), from different people. Occasionally people even have their own preferred hobby-horses which they'll ride to the exclusion of much else. The reality is that speakers are a big bundle of compromises, sonically and financially, and where one chooses to draw those is not black-and-white.
So unfortunately much of this comes down to personal preference; only the designer/builder can arbitrate for their own situation. Even factual/measurable differences can be perceived differently, or matter differently, to different people. Ultimately it comes down to your own experience; so of course take in the information but then experiment, build prototypes, and work out what 'you' like and think works for you.
Thankfully, as a hobby this is what counts; there is no need to defend things to critics or satisfy a market's tastes. If you are happy with the result for your own listening experience, everything else is probably in the weeds.
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Yes, first of all one needs adequate motivation (of any kind) and then one takes on his own challenges.
And you can spend a whole life doing it.
What can happen in the end is that you defend your achievements and try to attribute (or they are started from) scientific value to them.
And that's okay, but it's still not enough.
If "scientificity" were enough then there wouldn't be the infinite number and type of loudspeakers that there are.
And they all sound different, and so many sound "differently good".
I think that even errors and mistakes may sound good, sometime.
At the end of the day, as you already said, the important thing in building DIY speakers is to have fun while giving your contribution to the world.
And it's just the same in life too.
And you can spend a whole life doing it.
What can happen in the end is that you defend your achievements and try to attribute (or they are started from) scientific value to them.
And that's okay, but it's still not enough.
If "scientificity" were enough then there wouldn't be the infinite number and type of loudspeakers that there are.
And they all sound different, and so many sound "differently good".
I think that even errors and mistakes may sound good, sometime.
At the end of the day, as you already said, the important thing in building DIY speakers is to have fun while giving your contribution to the world.
And it's just the same in life too.
i am pretty confident that some felts placed strategically around the drivers could solve this issue
For mid high i am looking to coaxials where the tweeter emission is already limited by the mid cone
I would use the sat from 200Hz up This is a very old doubt for me But a cut at 200 Hz will send to the sat less energic frequencies only This is another confusion for me
I wonder if the vibrations are caused by the moving mass of the driver or by the mass or air displaced by the cone
It is still not clear to me
Anyway i am sure that also adding mass to the woofer box improved the rendition of lower frequencies
We played a full range track for pipe organ ... i have never heard a pipe organ like that on the same speakers and even on other decent speaker
Just to say the exact same track on tower speakers with 2 5" woofer of a friend (also not cheap) was just a joke in comparison
To add bracing sould mean to cut the rear panel to access the speaker internals Doable in a workshop
I like so much when the front or the rear panel can be removed entirely so that the access to components is very easy
This is how i would make a cabinet
Like this in the end
I'm convinced that in order to design and build an excellent loudspeaker (or a subwoofer, or anything else in Audio) technical knowledge is certainly necessary, but it also takes genius and the "courage" to dare and experiment (having the means and time).
Indeed, probably, exactly as happens with poets or other artists, one also needs good creativity and inspirations.
Otherwise, once all the existing texts have been studied, all speaker designers would produce the same speakers.
So, scientific data and the work of others are indispensable, but they must not become a mental cage. IMO
If I were a loudspeaker designer I would choose as my inspiring muse the work of Peter Snell who in my opinion is one of the most interesting audio designers of all time.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/your-contribute-to-audio-evolution.395785/post-7273207
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...-to-stuff-or-not-to-stuff.403005/post-7503053
He also used to surround both the mid and the tweeter of his systems with felt about 1 cm thick, but I believe that using that way or rounding the edges of the baffle or creating an ad hoc casing shaped as drops for the mid and tweeter as others have done is only a choice of project (and in some cases perhaps marketing also has a hand in it) but then everything else must also be up to standard and homogeneous, and then the costs rise (even a lot), then you have to make measurements and modify what exists accordingly, etc.
Whoever said that a designer must choose between a long series of compromises said the truth.
And it is also here that personal genius intervenes, without which great results of excellence cannot be achieved.
The choice of those compromises will be reflected in the sound that will characterize not only that object, but also its designer.
We have already learned that sound when propagates does not move air, the sound in order to be propagated it makes the air to vibrate.
Furthermore, strictly speaking sound exists just because the ears of the listener exist.
We also know that in a tuned port air moves because it is forced to do so by design since the woofer diaphgram constituting by analogy as a piston that moves into a cylinder.
The port forms a system with the cabinet and resonates ( (Helmholtz resonance), depending on length, diameter.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bass_reflex
Resonance is vibration and therefore it will sound.
And it will strengthen certain low frequencies according to physics.
This way the destructive interference of a driver is transformed into a constructive interference.
The above interferes with the way sound is reproduced, not propagated.
In other words, that moving air does not produce a sound in itself, the sound is produced by resonance of the tuned port, which is vibration (not movement).
A vibration (that's a sound) will produce a resonance "somewhere else", for sure.
Like to say that a sound will also produce a sound somewhere else through a resonance, that is, another vibration.
Please note that the above is my reporting of facts and I don't claim to be authoritative.
If one wanted to dispute any passage, please do so with due consideration of possible errors or omissions. 😉
Dave ,
This thread
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/your-contribute-to-audio-evolution.395785/page-7
Post#95
Where is that site that have a lot of cabinet designs, I like a lot to take a peek 😎
The sound needs to travel approxiamtely a quarter-wave thru theft to be effective.nWorks at tweeter frequencies,will have little to no effect in a subwoofer.
dave
Not needed.Baffle, the n top, then sides in terms of importance IMO, and with all th einternal structure all the panels are part of any single panel.
And th ebox is nmade of Richlite, you’d need at least twice the thickness of MDF to reach its stiffness. and then all the downsides of all that extra squishy mass.
dave
I have a set of boxes i inherited that deriuve from his work (ie Audio Note), need to populate with drivers. TB W3-871eN and a couple COral 8s in each box.
The art of loudspeaker design is the designers choice of compromises.
dave
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Thanks a lot again for the explanation So the vibes generator is the moving mass of the driver
I want to be honest I am scared by the woodworking not having the skills and the tools needed to do a good job
Adding mass could be easy Design build and mount bracings is much more challenging to me
But i have understood now that bracing for woofers boxes is the way to go
I guess that to add bracing to an existing speaker it would be a bad idea The cabinet should be designed and built from the scratch I will ask some help from a guy who does woodworks
Hi thanks and yes I have never seen felts around woofers I was referring to tweeters mostly Even if i have seen felts also around cone mids
I hope you complete it soon and show us later.
And yes, Peter was capable of great things with not particularly expensive drivers.
Apart from the Audio Note versions which were sometimes very very expensive.
Yes, I also think that such choices are close to art and in fact I believe that the designer's inspiration is decisive (together with his knowledge, of course) in terms of the success of a project, that is, its SQ.
If that inspiration can then be successfully repeated, it may become the designer's sonic-signature in his projects. 🙂
Just like the jet engines talking about on the other thread, they produce both the blast of air and the noise (or sound).
The thrust produced by the air moved (expelled from the rear of the engine) at high pressure is capable of moving the aircraft on which the engine is mounted, but the sound produced by that engine does not move the air, it makes it vibrate.
The sound is vibration.
The resonance is vibration.
The resonance is sound.
Furthermore, if that jet engine were mounted in a closed box it would blow that closed box to smithereens.
Instead, if that closed box had at least one exit duct, that's a hole, that's a port, perhaps its destruction would be avoided.
But obviously the box would be subjected to very high stresses from the inside to the outside.
If that same port were tuned, that box would constitute a bass-reflex system. 😍
I'm sure that regarding the construction of subwoofers those stresses have been studied in their direction and in their target regarding the side on which it insist in the related boxes.
There may even be different schools of thought, just like with everything else, but it will be up to you and only you to choose a path.
And that will be your own inspiration.
However, you have to test your choices, it is not at all certain that in a given system the increase in mass necessarily brings benefits to listening.
You have to choose and then put your choices to the test of your listening. 🙂
Going back from the jet engine to a woofer: the cone of a woofer can move the air, since it is a moving surface.
The cone of a woofer can also reproduce a sound.
The sound does not move the air, it makes it vibrate. 😉