State of Audiophile world in our Era, and how things changed

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#61
Which brings us back to the original question. This is the change. Use to be the source and electronics could make a big difference, now thats not the case. But since the marketers have taken over the business ( to the point of having more say over a design than the engineers) the amount of audiophool bs has become insurmountable. I hear people that havent listen to anything but there radio for the last ten years tell me vinyl is better than cd. When $300 amps sound the same as $30k amps how are you supposed to sell the $30k amp? You lie. And you tell people that instant comparisons dont work, "so theres no point in comparing the 2 amps". "And you will also need the $2k cables or that $30k amp wont sound good, and Ill give you a great deal on the cable lifters, heres a review".... from some cloth eared science ignorant shill were paying off.
 
#62
cbdb said:
You lie. And you tell people that instant comparisons dont work, "so theres no point in comparing the 2 amps". "And you will also need the $2k cables or that $30k amp wont sound good, and Ill give you a great deal on the cable lifters, heres a review".... from some cloth eared science ignorant shill were paying off.
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And they will attack you for exposing them. Sometimes in unison like a teamwork.
 
#63
cbdb said:
Which brings us back to the original question. This is the change. Use to be the source and electronics could make a big difference, now thats not the case. But since the marketers have taken over the business ( to the point of having more say over a design than the engineers) the amount of audiophool bs has become insurmountable. I hear people that havent listen to anything but there radio for the last ten years tell me vinyl is better than cd. When $300 amps sound the same as $30k amps how are you supposed to sell the $30k amp? You lie. And you tell people that instant comparisons dont work, "so theres no point in comparing the 2 amps". "And you will also need the $2k cables or that $30k amp wont sound good, and Ill give you a great deal on the cable lifters, heres a review".... from some cloth eared science ignorant shill were paying off.
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I sure don't want to play the devil's advocate, but most people in the industry are convinced themselves. I mean: they're not liars-liars. They lie out of pure ignorance, not on purpose. At least, not the people in the industry I know...

I honestly don't believe the whole audiophile market is corrupted with some evil falsehood, but probably just corrupted by some profound ignorance.
 
#64
I know this is one of those threads..

But, as someone not more than 3/4 years into his qudiophile quest, heard a few decent systems etc, but please cut me some slack for my early stage here:

I suspect, once one reaches a certain level, there's no "better" - just "different".

That's not a bad thing; Variety after all, is the spice of life.
 
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#66
bucks bunny said:
This discussion about audiophilia brings up associations to a parallel universe: Players of the electric guitar and their endless search for "the ultimate sound". I can see many similarities to the discussions here, being familiar with both worlds. I may call me a guitar addict for a lifetime being amazed by the sound of my heroes like Jimi Hendrix, Jeff Beck or Carlos Santana, just to name a few and in the early 70ies I participated in an experiment that changed my point of view for the rest of my life. Investigating "the best equipment" me and 3 local guitar players once met in a rehearsal room to check out numerous guitars and amps directly. Only one player was allowed to play at a time and so most of the time everybody was listening while one was playing the instruments. We had Fenders, Gibsons and a lot of more or less expensive amps at hand. This took over the hole afternoon. I eagerly listened - seeking the stuff with "most sustain". And at the end of the day I could tell who was playing - one guy let the guitar sing - the other produced no sustain at all. And the equipment used - did not make the difference!

So my lesson was that "sustain" mostly is done by the hand of the player. And this holds true for the entire sound characterics one perceives. There are lots of tiny details that distinguish good from bad guitar sound, everybody can hear this - but the difference is the musician - not the instrument. For me a good guitar and a good amp is like a tool - I like good tools, and once I have found them, I stick to them - no need for further improvements - job done.

My personal conclusion is not to waste too much time for the technical aspects but invest more in practicing my instrument - this is the direct way to improve sound.
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Reminds me of the story told by a guitarist who wanted the guitar Mark Knoppfler used, as he wanted to sound like him. One day a mutual friend brought Knoppfler round; he picked up the guy's guitar and guess what? He sounded just like Mark Knoppfler! 😀
 
#68
rdf said:
That's just incorrect. Misrepresentation was so out of control 45 years ago the US passed legislation governing audio amplifier specifications: Amplifier Rule | Federal Trade Commission
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Who said anything about specs? Specs dont sell $30k amps the marketing blurbs and ridiculous reviews in audio rags and the salesman do. ( thats why the salesman makes $10k and thats why hes so persuasive.) Whats the legislation on speaker wire or cable lifters?
 
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#69
cbdb said:
Who said anything about specs? Specs dont sell $30k amps the marketing blurbs and ridiculous reviews in audio rags and the salesman do. ( thats why the salesman makes $10k and thats why hes so persuasive.) Whats the legislation on speaker wire or cable lifters?
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Absolutely diabolical it is. The last time I visited a hifi store, you couldn't move for people buying $30K amps and cable lifters.
 
#72
cbdb said:
Who said anything about specs? ?
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You claimed false marketing is a recent phenomenon. I pointed out false marketing was so out of control 50 years ago - in form of misrepresentation of specs - the feds stepped in. You pointed out the feds haven't stepped in today.
 

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#73
What I want to know from the reformed audiophiles is what they were like back before they became reformed. Where they dead certain they were right about what they believed back then?

I'm going to guess that they were certain before just like they are certain now, what has changed is that which they are certain about.
 
#79
Markw4 said:
What I want to know from the reformed audiophiles is what they were like back before they became reformed.
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Based on their reasoning performance in the electronic realm reached the end of auditory history somewhere around a Bryston 3B driven by a Sony CDP-101. It's unclear, save for speakers and some edge cases like the requirement for exceptional power output or bass extension, why they're so invested in what their own logic concludes is 40 years of technological irrelevancies.
 
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