No, not you. I would have remembered the name if it was you. Besides, would it be possible that you prefer other people's design instead of your own? 😀
Especially for the speaker that you will listen to everyday, you don't want to use a low standard speaker. Many good speakers require lots of design efforts, years not hours.
If I have a set of drivers to build my own speaker, I will build all available examples on the net, and then try to better them all (I will even build more variations of my own).
The Ariel, Elsinore, Statement, are not built in hours. I don't think I can better them in months. And, the designer must have a good ears to be able to produce good sounding speaker (you have to trust the designer's ears to pick his design). If you think that simple measurement alone is enough, then you will not be able to make a special one. Especially if you build speaker in one day.
I spent probably a couple months on that ear-design, and had it measured about 4 months later. The measurement was just proof that I could voice it by ear.
My reference set, the Attitudes, took me a couple years to compile drivers, refine several simulations, and then commence on construction. Then I built them over a 5 month period, and voiced them for 2-3 months. In effect, I've not even had a measurement on the FR done for them. I know they sound as I want them to, and many have also agreed with me.
I don't build speakers in one day, I assure you, and I agree that is not the best way to build fantastic speaker designs.
I'm somewhat of a rebel. I tend to use drivers not many have used or noone has used, just to see what I think of them and if I like them. That doesn't say I don't see what others have done with a driver if I know they used it.
Thanks for the discussion,
Wolf
Several companies using the series crossover are ,Totem, VMPS, Von Schweikert and Sonus Faber which have a patented hybrid design.
Read all 6 pages.
First order crossovers
Phase coherence - Audio Voice Acoustics
Getting back to John K that is not how the Fried designs were calculated after reading your link. There is another design that has C1 in parallel of the tweeter and L1 in parallel of the woofer. I never heard it or tried the formulas are in Speaker Builder 1-82
Read all 6 pages.
First order crossovers
Phase coherence - Audio Voice Acoustics
Getting back to John K that is not how the Fried designs were calculated after reading your link. There is another design that has C1 in parallel of the tweeter and L1 in parallel of the woofer. I never heard it or tried the formulas are in Speaker Builder 1-82
Hi,
When is the penny going to drop ? Your take on 1st order
series x/o's is of no interest to the relatively well informed.
rgds, sreten.
I do find all the series XO detective work speakerman is giving us a bit wearying myself. It isn't too hard to just state things really, is it? I have. 😀
But if this series stuff doesn't interest you, just get the hell out of the thread and cut the personal abuse please. 😉
I've certainly got a series crossover on the back burner. Planet 10 (Dave) said he thinks the 0.032mH Fostex FF85WK is about as good a midrange driver as he knows. We've looked at the 0.17mH Visaton TW 70 cone tweeter already and decided it has something to offer which is perhaps more of a Gaussian dispersion than piston-like dome tweeters. What could be better than integrating the two with a series? We can think about the bass end separately, but 6dB bafflestep correction makes it easy to add a bit of desirable resistive padding elsewhere.
Aligning for phase/time coherence is presumably something that none of us think is a bad thing, so we're nearly there now. 😎
But if this series stuff doesn't interest you, just get the hell out of the thread and cut the personal abuse please. 😉
I've certainly got a series crossover on the back burner. Planet 10 (Dave) said he thinks the 0.032mH Fostex FF85WK is about as good a midrange driver as he knows. We've looked at the 0.17mH Visaton TW 70 cone tweeter already and decided it has something to offer which is perhaps more of a Gaussian dispersion than piston-like dome tweeters. What could be better than integrating the two with a series? We can think about the bass end separately, but 6dB bafflestep correction makes it easy to add a bit of desirable resistive padding elsewhere.
Aligning for phase/time coherence is presumably something that none of us think is a bad thing, so we're nearly there now. 😎
Hi,
Interesting comments on series x/o's is one thing,
mindless posting of boring links is another thing.
How do you incorporate 6dB of baffle step correction
in a simple series x/o is a good question ? unanswered.
Its not as simple as first order parallel
with an oversized inductor, far from it .....
rgds, sreten.
Interesting comments on series x/o's is one thing,
mindless posting of boring links is another thing.
How do you incorporate 6dB of baffle step correction
in a simple series x/o is a good question ? unanswered.
Its not as simple as first order parallel
with an oversized inductor, far from it .....
rgds, sreten.
What's hard about bafflestep correction in a series crossover? I've figured it out...😎
It's not that anything is particualrly hard with a series crossover, it is just about what can be accomplished with a simple L + C and maybe some R's in the circuit. If you start counting poles and zeros in the drivers (T+W) response and those associated with the baffle step you will see that even if the poles and zeros in the HP and LP section of a simple LC series crossover could be placed independently, there simple aren't enough poles and zeros in the crossover TF's to compensate the drivers native response correctly.
There is more then one way to design these. One forum user has a design that does not use a capacitor.
Do I have to post the link and be criticized?
If ceratain forum users want to kepp following me from forum to forum I will do the same thing I would do while driving an automobile.
If I am being following I would lead them down a dead end road.
Jon Risch has a different approach in the design.
I posted links since Planet10 wanted links to AES papers. They are very insightful.
Using mid bass woofer voice coil inductance for L1 has been done in some examples on the internet. It kills two birds with one stone.
How to do the sub I am curious to see the speculation over.
It's ashame reading books has become a lost art.
Do I have to post the link and be criticized?
If ceratain forum users want to kepp following me from forum to forum I will do the same thing I would do while driving an automobile.
If I am being following I would lead them down a dead end road.
Jon Risch has a different approach in the design.
I posted links since Planet10 wanted links to AES papers. They are very insightful.
Using mid bass woofer voice coil inductance for L1 has been done in some examples on the internet. It kills two birds with one stone.
How to do the sub I am curious to see the speculation over.
It's ashame reading books has become a lost art.
Well, I've gotta say that I've understood most of what speakerman is saying in this thread, and I want to thank him for some very insightful ideas. 🙂
Series crossovers are such highly optimised things that it makes you think very clearly about a lot of issues in selecting suitable drivers and component values.
I have tried to move the discussion along, but have been generally blanked, so I'm getting a bit scratchy myself on this topic. 😀
The mathematics:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/206843-sreten-speakerman-go-series-xos-17.html#post2913887
Typical implementation in the Acoustic Research AR-48s:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/206843-sreten-speakerman-go-series-xos-32.html#post2925167
Now I expect you want to get back to your flames...🙄
Series crossovers are such highly optimised things that it makes you think very clearly about a lot of issues in selecting suitable drivers and component values.
I have tried to move the discussion along, but have been generally blanked, so I'm getting a bit scratchy myself on this topic. 😀
The mathematics:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/206843-sreten-speakerman-go-series-xos-17.html#post2913887
Typical implementation in the Acoustic Research AR-48s:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/206843-sreten-speakerman-go-series-xos-32.html#post2925167
Now I expect you want to get back to your flames...🙄
...and if you pass along Florence , Steve , you're invited to a listening session of my DIY TL speakers , with just an L and a C 😉
System7 did you ever get the link of the crossover example I PM you?. If not I can email if you don't mind?
Thiele was one of the first that stated that when using 8ohm woofers the inductor value should not be more then 1/20 the Re of the woofer.
Small stated when using series crossovers the woofer voice coil inducance should be subtracted from the crossover inducance. Richard H. Small [Constant Voltage Crossover Network Design] Journal of the AES January 1971
It does make sense and showed me what Fried did.
Most of the time a tweeters lower limit for the crossover frequency is the twice the resonant frequency.
Deciding on what diameter of woofer used determines the crossover frequency to the tweeter.
Another area where the woofers voice coil inducance comes into deciding on the crossover frequency.
Thiele was one of the first that stated that when using 8ohm woofers the inductor value should not be more then 1/20 the Re of the woofer.
Small stated when using series crossovers the woofer voice coil inducance should be subtracted from the crossover inducance. Richard H. Small [Constant Voltage Crossover Network Design] Journal of the AES January 1971
It does make sense and showed me what Fried did.
Most of the time a tweeters lower limit for the crossover frequency is the twice the resonant frequency.
Deciding on what diameter of woofer used determines the crossover frequency to the tweeter.
Another area where the woofers voice coil inducance comes into deciding on the crossover frequency.
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